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Hypothetical New Sikh Sect That Accepts Homosexuality


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Question-

1) Many of us seem to think the sole or main goal of anand karaj is to reproduce. Off-spring. Is anand karaj not for people with fertility problems?

2) Must a marriage/ a relationship involve sex? What is the Sikh stand on asexuals?

3) If anand karaj is solely for a man and woman (though maharaaj specifically states that the union is of 2 genderless souls), what is the Sikh stand on Intersexuals/ Hermaphrodites.

4) Is sikhi then an exclusive faith just like the rest?

P.s. not trying to be clever so dont go gay-bashing me. If your opinion differs, lets agree to disagree :)

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That is completely unnecessary. I believe with the utmost conviction that Sikhi is the only major monotheistic religion that can accommodate homosexuals. We, as Sikhs, keep our kes uncut because we a

Nobody is using Alexander as an excuse to 'defend homosexuality', that's a gross misrepresentation. The only reason ancient civilisations were brought up was to refute the oft-repeated argument that h

Where do hermaphrodites fit in, then? If they don't fit neatly into a gender category, who are they "allowed" to have an Anand Karaj with - or are they restricted too, on account of the way they were

Kira bro the religious outlook of both Sain Mian Mir Ji and Bhagat Ravidas Ji was in fact Sikh as they both rejected Islam and Hinduism outright. For example, Muslims do not do matha tek to Guru Sahib but Sain Mian Mir Ji as the total non-Muslim Sufi that they were did (as true Sufi's - who were all non-Muslims - reject the personal life example of Prophet Muhammad in relation to his slave trading, terrorism, pedophilia etc but still believe in one God). Similarly, Bhagat Ravidas Ji rejected Hinduism as all their teachings align with Gurmat as we can see from their words in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

No they absolutely did not self-identify as Hindu's or Muslims bro. Those that do not believe in the caste system, fake pilgrimages, slavery, pedophilia, terrorism etc were simply the Gurmukhs they were. Bhagat Namdev Ji (falsely called a Hindu by the enemies of Sikhs) famously states in Gurbani - Hindu anna Turk kaana - so that lays the debate to rest conclusively.

The authors of Gurbani were ALL non-Muslims and non-Hindu's.

MisterrSingh a lot of props from me to u bro for what u managed the last 10 years and praying that u continue in Chardi Kala.

Sain Mian Mir Ji were not Muslim though bro. By rejecting the personal life example of Prophet Muhammad (as all true Sufi's did prior to persecution) and rejecting his life as the best role model for humanity in terms of the slave trading, pedophilia, terrorism, killing he did, all our blessed Gurmukhs of Muslim ancestry clearly outright reject Islam. The biggest proof is that they all did matha tek to Guru Sahib. Obviously Bhai Mardana Ji was the first Sikh in history too.

PS: Kira and MisterrSingh you'll be pleased to know that u are both shortlisted for best new poster of 2015 along with Xerxes and Balkaar. I will be awarding the prize depending on how much each of you all pay into my bank account.

Without the prophet mohammed there is no islam. How can a sufi be a part of islam yet reject the prophet? What are your views, as an islamophobic, of sufi islam?

please dont copy and paste any of that christain missionary crap wherever you get it from lol lets try and get on?

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Islam is the prophet Mohammed and the Quran and the Quran is prophet Mohammed, that's it, that really is all there is to it.

Sunni Islam follows in the direct footsteps of Prophet Mohammed, he is their role model and ultimate Guru, there are very many Hadiths about Mo but the ultimate truth is the Quran to Muslims.

What Mo says is the ultimate final judgement on all issues, until Jesus returns in the future maybe but Jesus is a very contentious issue between us Abrahamics and I shall not mention it here.

I always say Islam is the cult of Mohammed and equally Chritianity is the cult of Jesus.

I think Sikhi is the cult of Guru Nanak but then that's just me.

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Islam is the prophet Mohammed and the Quran and the Quran is prophet Mohammed, that's it, that really is all there is to it.

Sunni Islam follows in the direct footsteps of Prophet Mohammed, he is their role model and ultimate Guru, there are very many Hadiths about Mo but the ultimate truth is the Quran to Muslims.

What Mo says is the ultimate final judgement on all issues, until Jesus returns in the future maybe but Jesus is a very contentious issue between us Abrahamics and I shall not mention it here.

I always say Islam is the cult of Mohammed and equally Chritianity is the cult of Jesus.

I think Sikhi is the cult of Guru Nanak but then that's just me.

Sikhi isnt the cult of Guru Nanak. Your understanding of sikhi is far off if you think Guru Nanak is the Jesus/Mohammed equivalent. But then you judge with an abrahamic gaze...
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I can see why you'd assume the above to be the case, but strangely enough there is a phenomena in Sikhi where some Sikhs declare they are Sikhs of Guru Nanak Ji, whilst others proudly declare themselves as Sikhs of Guru Gobind Singh Ji (the last Master who was Guru in human form). Why do they do it? Well, I think those who exclusively opt for the first Guru prefer the less confrontational, mellower aspects of the Sikh faith, whereas those who go the second route are more geared towards the gung-ho warrior mentality.

Unfortunately for both parties they fail to understand both figures are one and the same. There is no difference as they (and the other 8 Guru Sahibs in between) had the same Light of God in them. A Sikh cannot cling to extremes of either variation considering how the world and its people operate; hence the term Saint-Soldier.

Guru Nanak Ji's approach was perfect for their time; one of reaching out and lifting veils of ignorance and hypocrisy through the strength of their words (which is also something Guru Gobind Singh Ji did and mustn't be forgotten), whilst Guru Gobind Singh Ji realised that in order to survive and defend the rights of the people words alone cannot suffice against an enemy that only understands the language of fear and violence. Although it was in fact Guru Gobind Singh's grandfather (the 6th Guru) that first instigated and encouraged the warrior ethic in Sikhs.

A wise Sikh loves and adheres to the teachings of all Ten Gurus considering them as one. There is no cult or dominance of one personality - or there shouldn't be - as it flies in the face of everything Sikhi stands for.

Just my take on the situation.

I can see why you'd assume the above to be the case, but strangely enough there is a phenomena in Sikhi where some Sikhs declare they are Sikhs of Guru Nanak Ji, whilst others proudly declare themselves as Sikhs of Guru Gobind Singh Ji (the last Master who was Guru in human form). Why do they do it? Well, I think those who exclusively opt for the first Guru prefer the less confrontational, mellower aspects of the Sikh faith, whereas those who go the second route are more geared towards the gung-ho warrior mentality.

Unfortunately for both parties they fail to understand both figures are one and the same. There is no difference as they (and the other 8 Guru Sahibs in between) had the same Light of God in them. A Sikh cannot cling to extremes of either variation considering how the world and its people operate; hence the term Saint-Soldier.

Guru Nanak Ji's approach was perfect for their time; one of reaching out and lifting veils of ignorance and hypocrisy through the strength of their words (which is also something Guru Gobind Singh Ji did and mustn't be forgotten), whilst Guru Gobind Singh Ji realised that in order to survive and defend the rights of the people words alone cannot suffice against an enemy that only understands the language of fear and violence. Although it was in fact Guru Gobind Singh's grandfather (the 6th Guru) that first instigated and encouraged the warrior ethic in Sikhs.

A wise Sikh loves and adheres to the teachings of all Ten Gurus considering them as one. There is no cult or dominance of one personality - or there shouldn't be - as it flies in the face of everything Sikhi stands for.

Just my take on the situation.

usually SIkhs do it to try to be clever and avoid the perceived requirement of Amrit i.e. Khande di pahul and to keep kesh , but both were there from the first and until forever.

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usually SIkhs do it to try to be clever and avoid the perceived requirement of Amrit i.e. Khande di pahul and to keep kesh , but both were there from the first and until forever.

Yeah, I had a suspicion that might be the case, hehe, but I wasn't certain.

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Where do hermaphrodites fit in, then? If they don't fit neatly into a gender category, who are they "allowed" to have an Anand Karaj with - or are they restricted too, on account of the way they were born?

In all seriousness, they serve as an example of the irrelevance of gender in Vaheguru's plan. Things are not as black and white as they tend to appear to the privileged heterosexual Sikh man or woman.

That's a really fair point. I don't understand why people feel the need to over-simply waheguru's will. Heck, lets step back and look at the world physically for a change. There are laws that govern our universe, but in many instances they're not even constant, certain cases arise which are completely beyond what we know or even understand, applying simplicity or even just what we know as a universal law to them might end up completely misrepresenting or even misunderstanding them.

No one instance will ever be the same, every scenario is different, even if its just a microscopic difference. Gurbani provides us with a path and a compass, it's up to us if we decide whether we'll use those tools or simply get side tracked by mundane affairs.

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That's a really fair point. I don't understand why people feel the need to over-simply waheguru's will. Heck, lets step back and look at the world physically for a change. There are laws that govern our universe, but in many instances they're not even constant, certain cases arise which are completely beyond what we know or even understand, applying simplicity or even just what we know as a universal law to them might end up completely misrepresenting or even misunderstanding them.

No one instance will ever be the same, every scenario is different, even if its just a microscopic difference. Gurbani provides us with a path and a compass, it's up to us if we decide whether we'll use those tools or simply get side tracked by mundane affairs.

well usually the people in this case choose which they want to be and get the necessary surgery and technically since they were both they will end up either a man or a woman and then pick the partner accordingly I have never heard of a gay hermaphrodite as such but it could be a possibility.

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well usually the people in this case choose which they want to be and get the necessary surgery and technically since they were both they will end up either a man or a woman and then pick the partner accordingly I have never heard of a gay hermaphrodite as such but it could be a possibility.

I'm not sure why you quoted me but gender issues are bit more complex than that. I dont claim to be an expert but surgery is usually for those who seriously want to feel like a woman/man on the outside as well. Mentally speaking they are still the gender they claim to be in their brains regardless of the surgery.

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Where do hermaphrodites fit in, then? If they don't fit neatly into a gender category, who are they "allowed" to have an Anand Karaj with - or are they restricted too, on account of the way they were born?

In all seriousness, they serve as an example of the irrelevance of gender in Vaheguru's plan. Things are not as black and white as they tend to appear to the privileged heterosexual Sikh man or woman.

You have confused heterosexual with gender. Guru Sahib has said marriage 8s between a man and a woman. He didn't say it should be based on sexual inclinations. By your logic the Gurus made an error for saying one man for one woman because bisexuals are inclined towards both. Why should they be deprived of marrying one of their sexual inclinations? I bring this point up to present how you and company are advocating for homosexuals to be married by the anand karaj, because they are sexually inclined toward the same gender and if they were forced to marry the opposite gender, they would be in a love less marriage and it would end badly. Your whole logic of anand karaj is based on sexual feelings. Point to us here where the Guru based marriage on sexual feelings?

Let me know how you want to please the bisexual people through the anand karaj.

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You have confused heterosexual with gender. Guru Sahib has said marriage 8s between a man and a woman. He didn't say it should be based on sexual inclinations. By your logic the Gurus made an error for saying one man for one woman because bisexuals are inclined towards both. Why should they be deprived of marrying one of their sexual inclinations? I bring this point up to present how you and company are advocating for homosexuals to be married by the anand karaj, because they are sexually inclined toward the same gender and if they were forced to marry the opposite gender, they would be in a love less marriage and it would end badly. Your whole logic of anand karaj is based on sexual feelings. Point to us here where the Guru based marriage on sexual feelings?

Let me know how you want to please the bisexual people through the anand karaj.

What? I'm not confusing gender with sexuality, nor talking about bisexuality or sexual inclinations.

The point I'm making is that there are plenty of people who fall biologically outside of the male/ female category. By the logic that an Anand Karaj should only and in every case be between a man and a woman, those people are also restricted through no fault of their own.

Accordingly, I would be unable to have an Anand Karaj with a Gursikh hemraphrodite because they would not wholly fit the "male" category, but nor do they fit the "female" category. Do you see what I'm saying? Vaheguru has made something more than male and female, the picture is not black and white and there's more to life than one's genitals.

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