Sant Ji's views on "monay"

[Ranjeet01]

2 hours ago, puzzled said:

Western born moneh take the p155 more than the ones in India. In India there still is a little respect for the appearance of a Singh. I guess it's because in India there still is some sort of reverence for something linked to religion, despite them not being very religious these days. 

Its important to understand that Sikhi for most monas is a culture, while for most Singhs it's a faith, a gift from Guru ji.

Now culture is ever changing, adapting and criticised, while religion is unchanged and the divine truth.

Because of these two different views, we now have moneh, in full force trying to change and bend Sikhi so it suits their lifestyle and social views. We now have bikini wearing Sikh bibis on social media preaching Sikhi, monas holding beer preaching Sikhi (profile pics), LGBTQ being pushed into Sikhi,  "Haircuts don't make you a less of a Sikh" view being pushed. 

Because culture can be changed and criticised, we now have mona Sikhs question the relevance of following something that was written in a "book" 500 years ago. 

It's all happening before our eyes. 

We have passed the time where a Singh could criticise these people and correct them. These people are as much Sikhs as a Singh is, so who are you to question their views ? 

You see, these people don't just exist on social media. People born into the comfort of Amritdhari families are oblivious to how all this bakwaas is being pushed into Sikhi. 

One only needs to see that what was socially unacceptable 10 years ago, is completely socially acceptable today. Who made it socially acceptable? Singhs or monas? 

Who made Sikhi bibis, including Sikh brides getting drunk with their brothers at Sikh wedding reception parties acceptable? Singhs on monas ? 

When you're born into the comfort of a Amritdhari family, and surrounded by mostly Singhs, you can't see the damage, but when you're born into a mona family you see the damage taking place, and the extent of the damage right before your eyes. 

We only need to see what these people are pushing for on social media, ideas they are sharing, to see what will become acceptable in our community in the future.

One mistake Singhs did make was let monas call themselves Sikhs. This has allowed them to push their views into Sikhi. 

Being a mona is now a acceptable norm in our community, in fact boys who have guttis are asked if they are gnna continue keeping guttis. 

On top of all of this, these same people take the p1ss out real Sikhs, joke about their appearances, 5 kakkars, maryada. 

I'm not tarnishing all moneh with the same brush, I'm tarnishing majority of them. 

I have quite a few moneh relatives, though I have never heard them taking the p*ss out of proper Sikhs. 

But that is just my experience. 

I've heard the micky taken out of gianis during akhand paths but that is more to do with individual characteristics/personalities rather than being a Sikh. 

I remember many years ago, my cousins and I laughing at a giani once during akhand path because he kept burping when reading path. I got a clip on the ear from my dad for that.

[puzzled]

11 minutes ago, Ranjeet01 said:

I have quite a few moneh relatives, though I have never heard them taking the p*ss out of proper Sikhs. 

But that is just my experience. 

I've heard the micky taken out of gianis during akhand paths but that is more to do with individual characteristics/personalities rather than being a Sikh. 

I remember many years ago, my cousins and I laughing at a giani once during akhand path because he kept burping when reading path. I got a clip on the ear from my dad for that.

That's because you come from a family with some Sikhi in it and some proper Sikhs. So the moneh in your family have some respect for Sikhi, there is a Sikh presence in your family.

As someone that comes from a family which is depraved of any dharam, and as the only person who keeps my hair and beard from a family of around 80 people, the things I heard and seen are the complete opposite of your experience. And not just my family, but family friends, friends, and distant relatives as well. Like I said, I myself used to take the mick of Singhs when I was a mona, simply because that's what everyone around me was doing. 

This might be hard to believe, and most people on here probably won't believe this, but back in school a "sikh" girl I was talking to was bullying a Singh with learning disability I think he had autism. She then said to me "shall I spit on his gutti"   to which I told her not to do that because its lame, and she didn't do it. These are the kind of mona "sikh" kids I grew up around me. 

But this isn't the biggest issue, its the behaviors they're pushing into Sikhi and making it a norm. Who are the main supporters of the LGBT agenda in our community today? its mainly Western born Sikh women. Give it another 5-10 years and we'll be having LGBT anand karajs. Rather than changing their behaviors, monas push all this crap into Sikhi. 

Monas are responsible for the cultural changes(negative) in our community, Singhs in no way have any control in these changes as they make such a small %    the direction we are heading, the negative social changes taking place are all pushed by monas! Even if one tries to reverse these changes, it will fail! 

Who is trying to make interfaith marriages a norm? who is having out doors/beach anand karaj? who is pushing for LGBT anand karaj ?

Imagine if a Singh from 100 years ago saw the state of Sikhs at a Sikh reception party today, would he recognise his Sikhs ?  or would he think he took the wrong direction and ended up at a kotha ? 

 

 

[puzzled]

Where do you see Sikhs 50 years from today in the UK? what will they be like ? what will be considered acceptable and normal 50s years in the future?  What will be the state of Sikhi ?    

I will probably be dead, which is great. 

[MisterrSingh]

I think what we're seeing discussed here is what's referred to as a purity spiral. 

Quote

A purity spiral...is defined by the fact that it takes place in a defined community or society, where being purer-than-thou is always being rewarded, and holding a divergent, 'less pure' opinion is normally punished, a dynamic which leads to an inevitable escalation as only the most extreme can 'win'.

While the above definition doesn't perfectly align with our situation, it does feed the issue being discussed here. For example, I don't feel Sikhs wanting to preserve their religious traditions should be viewed as extreme, but for some of the up and coming generations in the West even the word "tradition" is considered a hateful slur. At the moment they flaunt their disdain in their small online enclaves, but the activists of today will roam the corridors of power tomorrow, and anyone or any group in the West that doesn't sit comfortably within with their idea of a progressive paradise will not be spared; including brownies.

[MisterrSingh]

9 minutes ago, puzzled said:

Where do you see Sikhs 50 years from today in the UK? what will they be like ? what will be considered acceptable and normal 50s years in the future?  What will be the state of Sikhi ?    

I will probably be dead, which is great. 

It'll be a reflection of whatever has transpired in the wider Western society but obviously with some surface allusions to the original doctrine. It's one of the reasons my contempt for certain influential sections of Western society is growing by the day. Of course, they're under no obligation to placate us on any issue. 

[TigerForce1]

7 minutes ago, puzzled said:

Where do you see Sikhs 50 years from today in the UK? what will they be like ? what will be considered acceptable and normal 50s years in the future?  What will be the state of Sikhi ?    

I will probably be dead, which is great. 

 Bro if you remember the 80’s you will have picture in your mind where everyone was pretty much Monah.  I remember men being carried out blind drunk out of weddings all the time.  I must admit there was more ‘bhaichara’ amongst people, but boy they were shameless when It came down to drinking culture.  Now fast forward to present time you see less people getting blind drunk at weddings but admittedly women are now drinking in the open.  You also se so many Dumala wearing Singhs and Singhnia which never seen 30 years back.  All is not lost, if anything we are moving forward positively.  Chardikala vich rehna sikh!

[Ranjeet01]

35 minutes ago, puzzled said:

That's because you come from a family with some Sikhi in it and some proper Sikhs. So the moneh in your family have some respect for Sikhi, there is a Sikh presence in your family.

As someone that comes from a family which is depraved of any dharam, and as the only person who keeps my hair and beard from a family of around 80 people, the things I heard and seen are the complete opposite of your experience. And not just my family, but family friends, friends, and distant relatives as well. Like I said, I myself used to take the mick of Singhs when I was a mona, simply because that's what everyone around me was doing. 

This might be hard to believe, and most people on here probably won't believe this, but back in school a "sikh" girl I was talking to was bullying a Singh with learning disability I think he had autism. She then said to me "shall I spit on his gutti"   to which I told her not to do that because its lame, and she didn't do it. These are the kind of mona "sikh" kids I grew up around me. 

But this isn't the biggest issue, its the behaviors they're pushing into Sikhi and making it a norm. Who are the main supporters of the LGBT agenda in our community today? its mainly Western born Sikh women. Give it another 5-10 years and we'll be having LGBT anand karajs. Rather than changing their behaviors, monas push all this crap into Sikhi. 

Monas are responsible for the cultural changes(negative) in our community, Singhs in no way have any control in these changes as they make such a small %    the direction we are heading, the negative social changes taking place are all pushed by monas! Even if one tries to reverse these changes, it will fail! 

Who is trying to make interfaith marriages a norm? who is having out doors/beach anand karaj? who is pushing for LGBT anand karaj ?

Imagine if a Singh from 100 years ago saw the state of Sikhs at a Sikh reception party today, would he recognise his Sikhs ?  or would he think he took the wrong direction and ended up at a kotha ? 

 

 

My extended family has a mix of unreligious and religious. They are a mix of moneh, Keshdharis and Amritdharis .From very traditional to the extremely westernised.

So I guess I see a wide range of behaviours across the spectrum. 

I guess one of things my extremely westernised relatives understand where the lines and boundaries are.

For example, I have had cousins who are extremely westernised and not religiously minded at all and they got married outside the community and they would not dare have an Anand Karaj (probably because they don't want to look like complete hypocrites and they would not be able to sit in a Gurdwara for any period of time without wanting to smoke a cigarette). They would put up their hands and say they are not really Sikhs. They are quite blunt about it.

Then I had another relative and she married a gorah. Her parents are more traditional and it would be hypocritical for her to have an Anand Karaj. But her parents wanted some tradition so they had Sukhmani Sahib path for her and her fiancee. She had a registry marriage but had the lengha with all the trimmings. 

The problem with some moneh is that they get confused with what is acceptable and not acceptable. The moneh women are the most confused, and highly influenced by "trends" , which is why this LGBTQ and interfaith is being pushed. 

I think it may come from  the fact we try as Sikhs to be many things to many people and although we are not dogmatic we have do hard rules and boundaries that should enforced. 

We need to hold firm on that.

 

[KhoonKaBadlaKhoon2]

8 hours ago, californiasardar1 said:

 

Okay, I am a nobody. You win. That doesn't change what Sant Ji said.

 

Me: "2 + 2 = 4"

You: "F you, you are an embarrassing loser! You are a complete nobody! You have no right to say that! Maybe if you were C.F. Gauss you would have the authority to say that! But you've put zero work in! F you!!!"

Me: "Okay, fine. I am a nobody. That doesn't change the fact that 2 + 2 = 4."

 

How many monay have risen to the occasion? For every mona you can name, hundreds of singhs can be named.

You are probably one of those revisionists who likes to pretend that a majority of 1980s kharkus were monay.

I'm not disagreeing with what Sant Ji said. 

 

And I'm most definitely not, but a lot of kharkus were. I just understand why you're on your own high horse. Now a days a lot more monay are willing to ride than Singhs. 

[californiasardar1]

6 hours ago, puzzled said:

I think people are talking about 2 different things, mona and farmers protest. OP posted about monay, not farmers protest.

As someone who was mona myself a few years back, and still am surrounded by mainly monas, do you guys know what most monay really think and say about the appearance of Singhs? In their own circles? 

I myself in my mona days have said some very insulting things about Singhs appearances, like most monas do, and I'm very ashamed of it, I hope guru ji has forgiven me. 

And don't forget that in schools it's not just pakis and Whites that laugh at boys with guttis! mona kids can be just as bad, where do they learn it from? 

Don't let a few moneh involved in the farmers protest delude you! 

Mona people have done a lot of damage to Sikhi. 

This for example, which was posted on this site, is quite a common joke in mona circles. They joke about food being stuck, I've heard it myself. 

 

 

 

 

You hit the nail on the head.

Not all monay are disrespectful to singhs. Some are quite nice. But the vast majority of monay think it's amusing to mock and ridicule singhs. In fact, I think mona "sikhs" are generally more disrespectful to singhs than your average white or mexican or black person. Mona "sikh" women are perhaps even worse than the men when it comes to ridiculing singhs.

So, to everyone here, please try to be understanding. I tried to give monay the benefit of the doubt for most of my life. But with a few exceptions, they have done nothing but give me reasons to have contempt for them.

It's one thing to just refuse to identify as a Sikh (i.e. refuse to stand with people like me through the difficulties we face). It's another thing to claim to be a Sikh and then think it is ok to ridicule someone for trying to practice Sikhi.

[californiasardar1]

5 hours ago, MisterrSingh said:

Do you reckon there's a difference between NRI moneh and Punjab resident moneh in terms of attitudes to Singhs? I would think the Punjab resident moneh are more in touch with the underlying Punjabi culture and tend to see commonalities between themselves and Singhs, whereas NRI moneh tend to want to create distance between themselves and NRI Singhs especially if the former have a non-Sikh social circle. But then there's pendu NRI moneh who take the pi55 out of Singhs, which I guess comes from attitudes they've picked up from their male elders.

 

I am going to have to push back on this.

If anything, I think the Punjabi monay are even worse than the NRI mona. When I went to Punjab, I was ridiculed many times for "looking like a baba." Punjabis like to use the term "modern Sikh" as a Sikh who cuts hair and/or trims their beard (I'm sure most of them don't know what the real definition of "modern" is).