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Important to remember throughout Sikh history our Guru Sahibs have shown us the way how to survive events that may challenge the kaum. Guru Hargobind Sahib’s first sermon must be heard again today and applies just as much now as it did when he first gave it. Guru Arjan Dev had been brutally tortured and embraced martyrdom, becoming an example for the Panth. The Sikhs were grief-struck and felt a sense of despair. The small Panth of Guru Nanak had been targeted by the mighty power of the Mughals. Guru Hargobind Sahib, became the next Guru as per the orders of his father. In front of all the gathered Sikhs, Baba Buddha jee put the two swords of meeri and peeri on Guru Hargobind Sahib. Guru Sahib was dressed like and emperor and there was a kalgi (aigrette) on his dastaar. The Dhadis, Bhai Abdullah and Bhai Nath Mal, at the hukam of Guru Hargobind Sahib sang a vaar filled with bir ras. Then, Guru Hargobind Sahib rose and gave his first sermon to the Sikhs: “Today the offerings that are beloved to me are good weapons and good youth. If you want my happiness, then exercise your bodies, wrestle, play gatka, go into the jungles to hunt and learn to ride horses. Weakness is now a crime to the Nation that cannot be forgiven for anyone. You will take up the sword and I now wear the sword so that the swords of tyranny and oppression will stop forever. You have all come from far and wide today. The cool tranquillity has been stolen from not just your heart and my heart, but from the entire world. Our swords will not rest until we bring this oppression to an end. Make day and night one. Go into the villages and light the inferno of revolution. Tell the people that we need their youth. Only that is a good youth that sacrifices itself for the cause of the Nation. We need sacred hearts and pure minds. Enshrine Waheguru in your hearts. We fear death because we have not experienced true life. We feel worry because we have not enjoyed a taste of life. We feel fear because our destination and goal seems so far off. But if you challenge death, death will flee from you. If you learn to walk with your heads held high then worry will depart. If you are determined to walk, the destination will not be so far away. Have faith in Vahiguru and all fears will vanish. If fear has left you then even death will seem like bliss.” Guru jee continued, “Do not think that you are too few. You are all like springs. Oceans flow out of these very springs. There are hundreds of thousands of springs like you in our Nation. When you come together and flow forward, you will create a flood. A small and insignificant piece of wood, when made into a match, can light the entire jungle on fire. But you are humans! And furthermore, those humans whose heart has just now been scorched on hot iron plates [reference to shahidi of Guru Arjan Dev jee]. Addressing the poets in the Sangat, Guru Sahib said, “See, God has given you the gift of poetry. When nations are built, you are the foundations. Stop all these other untimely songs and work to bring the Nation out of this deep dark pit. Tell those stories which will make the people willing to lose their skin like they would be willing to change their clothes. Fill the people of our Nation with the spirit and fervour to be like moths so they will sacrifice themselves in the flames of our cause. Our blood has become cold. Tell us stories of Shahidi and become the furnaces that will boil our blood. Give us the passion to make the trampled Punjab and our crushed Nation rise to its feet once again.” Speaking to the Dhadis, Guru Sahib said, “Now is the time that your instruments should call out a challenge. Your notes should stir the Nation. The beat of your dhads should awaken the people and the bells on your bows should make hearts fill with the zeal of sacrifice.” We must hear Guru Sahib’s message again today and rise to the challenge.

Can we list some of the most favorite forum members, whose presence on our forums inspires you the most. (non-mod/admin) My all time fav is "PJS" !!!

Bhaji why blame a relgion for the actions of a few? No true believer in the All Mighty can have an alliance to God. There were wars the Mughals and the British, buti wouldnt say it was a war with Muslims and Christians. Sorry if i offended anyone

Guys, both side opinions are right and pretty much align with Gurmat (saint-sipahi ideology)...so stop belittling each other. One side beliefs saving bhai sahib ji from inhumane form of capital punishment- hanging someone until person chokes to death. Anyway on broader context, its about saving bhai sahib ji - an human being not on a argument that make sikhs look like wussies but on a argument, its about saving an human life on death row, fits right in Saint context of Sikhi. Second side believes let bhai sahib ji attain shaheedi as he wished for it, nothing wrong with that opinion either, fits right in Sipahi context of Sikhi. Thats why sangat seems divided which they shouldn't, diversity does not equal to division automatically, diversity is beauty of sikhi..everyone should be proud. If panth can have bhramgyani shaheed sahibzadas attaining shaheedi while fighting enemy in battle field, and have bhramgyani bhai kahniya ji treating wounds of same enemies- on practical level, then why can't sikhs look at things from different googles (saint goggles) and (sipahi goggles). At the end it all boils down to - if asked bhai sahib that if he prefers shahedi in battle ground than having shaheedi hanged. I am sure he would without any hesitation say- in battle ground. So while both opinion of sangat are right and fully aligned with sant and sipahi context of sikhi. We should be all (for shaheedi or for saving human life), sign the petition to saving him from hanged until death.

Vaheguru Jee, I sit here awaiting you, tears rolling down my eyes... Oh my lord, I’ve finally renounced all and have come knocking at your door, Please accept me as your true sikh, I promise I wont be unfaithful again for sure... I gave my heart, love to the temporary and attached myself to this transitory show, But when I took amrit didn’t I promise to sell my head to you, I never really did and thats why all this woe, Finally here to serve you with all my heart, How can I live without your naam, You are the only companion I need, how can I even begin to praise you? As each moment passes by, I will keep you clasped to my heart, Naam is the truth, the rare jewel, Rare are those who appreciate and hold onto the naam, While others waste away and lose this game of life.. Maya is out there to get us all, But “Says Kabeer, you can win or lose”

Wow, that's a good article.

Why Khalistan? By: Bijla Singh Note - For more information go to Sikh Freedom website. Khalistan is the Sikh homeland. By definition it means land of pure people. Currently it is under Indian government's control. Some people support it, some don't. Many people have different opinions about how to free Khalistan. Some people are just totally confused. So the purpose of this article is to explain why Khalistan is needed, how to free it and what free Khalistan will be like etc. First, it is important to talk about why Khalistan is needed. Khalistan is not a destiny, it is a necessity. Guru Gobind Singh Ji said: "Raj Bina Nahin Dharam Chale Hain, Dharam Bina Sab Dalle Malle Hain" which literally means that sovereignty is a MUST in order for a religion to survive; otherwise religion perishes. Now you can understand that even Guru Gobind Singh Ji himself has said it. There are many reasons why we (Sikhs) need Khalistan. I will give you some reasons starting from the beginning. We shouldn't live with Hindus for many reasons. Hindus have always betrayed Sikhs. From the time of Gurus, Hindus have always been against Sikhs. You can't find a single name of a Hindu who was loyal to Sikhs. During two holocausts in the 18th century and many wars against Mughals, Sikhs did not receive any help from Hindus, not even from Rajputs and Marathas. It was Hindus who betrayed Sikhs and helped British army to take over Punjab, Khalistan which included all of Pakistan and some of the Indian states like Kashmir, Haryana and Himachal Pardesh. For doing this Hindu Dogras got Kashmir and the rest of the country became part of the British empire. Sikhs had fought for helpless Hindus and freed their women from Muslim invaders for two hundred years and this is how Hindus returned the favor. Even Punjabi Muslims fought against British from the side of the Sikhs but not the Hindus. Punjab was never part of India. Name "India" didn't even come until the east India company. British had occupied the whole of India but then Punjab was not part of British empire. It was a separate country. British ruled over India for more than 200 years and for 92 years over Punjab, Khalistan. After British took over Punjab it became part of British empire and when India gained independence it was handed over to the Indian government to be ruled. It was because of Hindus that Sikhs lost their country. Before India became independent the Hindus leaders of the new nation Nehru and Gandhi promised that Sikhs would be given full rights in India and that no law would be passed without consulting Sikhs. "...in future, the Congress shall accept no constitution which does not meet with the satisfaction of the Sikhs" (The Lahore session of the Congress Party. December 31, 1929) "...the brave Sikhs of Punjab are entitled to special considerations. I see nothing wrong in an area set up in the North of India wherein, the Sikhs can also experience the glow of freedom." (Jawahar Lal Nehru, Lahore Bulletin, January 9, 1930) "I ask you to accept my word and the Resolution of the Congress that it will not betray a single individual much less a community. Let God be the witness of the bond that binds me and the Congress with you (the Sikhs). When pressed further Gandhi said that Sikhs would be justified in drawing their swords out of the scabbards as Guru Gobind Singh had asked them to, if Congress would renege on its commitment." (Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi, Young India, March 19, 1931) "You (Sikhs) take my word that if ever the Congress or I betray you, you will be justified to draw the sword as taught by Guru Gobind Singh" (M. K. Gandhi). After the British left India, Sikhs were fired from their jobs and Hindus were hired. Then Indian constitution was written but Sikhs refused to sign it in the house of parliament because under Amendment (Dhara) 25 it declared Sikhism as part of Hinduism. When Sikhs talked to Nehru about their rights, he said "The time has changed now. If you wanted to live freely then why didn't you demand for a separate country from British?" Look at some more quotes that explain the real attitude of Hindus towards Sikhs. " To preserve the unity of India, if we have to eradicate 2-kror [ 20 millions ] Sikhs, we will do so. (Balram Jhakhar, a colleague of P.V. Narsimharao, the former Indian Prime Minister) " The Sikhs are a lawless people and a menace to the law abiding Hindus ... The [Government] should take strict measures against them." (Pandit Nehru, Indian Prime Minister, on Sikhs) "Kya main taqat dushman (the enemy -the Sikhs) ke haath main de dun (How can I entrust power into the hands of the enemies)." (Jawahar Lal Nehru, 1961) " I hate the very physique of a Sikh because of the turban and beard. " (Vallabh Bhai Patel, late Indian top politician) "I don't give a damn if the Golden Temple and whole of Amritsar are destroyed, I want Bhindranwale dead." (Indira Gandhi, Indian Prime Minister, communicating with Gen. Vaidya during "Operation Blue Star") "We have broken the back of the Sikhs and we will get them elsewhere." (M. M. K. Wali, Indian Foreign Secretary, June 7, 1984, Canadian Broadcasting Corporation, Radio 740, As It Happens) "Let us teach these bastards (the Sikhs) a lesson." (Rajiv Gandhi, October 31, 1984) "... a threat to the villagers that all males would be killed and their women taken to army camps to breed a new race if there was any militant activity in their village." (Brig. R. P. Sinha, Indian Army, March 8, 1991) "You do not know the might of our armed forces. We will eliminate 10,000 Sikh youths and the world will know nothing about it." (Chander Shekhar, former Prime Minister of India, CK, 21st October, 1991) When China attacked India from the side of Nepal and Kashmir, coincidentally, Nehru was near Nepal. When he heard the news of war, he forgot all about his peaceful speeches and called for the army. The military didn't arrive there for a few days. There were only 500 Sikhs who fought China and held Chinese army back. Nehru was saved by Sikhs and he came back to Delhi. As soon as he came back he said "How can I entrust power into the hands of the enemies?" Nepal's side was saved but China took over some of Kashmir which is still under their rule. In India all states were created on the language basis but Punjab was not declared a Punjabi State. Sikhs started demanding for a Punjabi state and Sikhs launched a peaceful morcha. More than 100,000 Sikhs were arrested but the government paid no attention to this matter. Nehru said "If there ever be a Punjabi state then all Sikhs will have to move to Punjab and the government will not be responsible for their safety." The morcha went on. During this morcha, Indian police walked in Darbar Sahib with their shoes on and tear gas was thrown inside the main building. In 1965 the war broke out between India and Pakistan. It was Sikhs who fought bravely and defeated Pakistan. Hindus couldn't stand in front of Pakistan's army. After seeing loyalty of Sikhs, Indian government decided to create a Punjabi state but it was divided into three parts Haryana, Himachal Pardesh and whatever left was became Punjab. Other two parts became Hindi states and Punjab was declared a Punjabi state. Punjab was divided on purpose because Indian government had seen bravery of Sikhs and the government was afraid that if Sikhs turn against Indian government, they will take over or if they by any chance demand for a free Punjab then they won't have much land. Indian government also divided the Sikh army into many battalions. Indian government always wanted to divide Sikhs and it did by walking on the steps of British and adapting their theory called "divide and rule." The Indian government says Punjab was divided on the basis of language . The government says Sikhs did not occupy the majority in Punjab and Punjabi was not spoken in all parts of Punjab. But the fact is, the Indian government didn't want Sikhs to become majority which would make Hindu majority the leader of Punjab. In Patiala, when Sikhs outnumbered Hindus by 14,000, Nehru and Patel moved about 30 thousand Hindus in Patiala to show that Sikhs were a minority. Hinduism is a caste religion. Low caste people didn't have any rights in India. So they started converting to Sikhism because Sikhism gives equality to all people. Number of these low caste people were about 140 to 150 million and they were from 34 different castes. Seeing this Nehru and Patel gave more rights to low caste people and said only Hindus will have these rights. This stopped their conversion. Only 4 out of those 34 castes were considered Sikhs. Others claimed themselves as Hindus. Today, low caste people like Harijans have more rights. They even have reserved seats in colleges regardless of their grades. This was because of Patel. Furthermore, Punjab's capital Chandigarh was also made the capital of Haryana. There is no high court in Punjab. Punjab has no control over its water, electricity and dams. All the electricity produced in Punjab is sent to Haryana, Rajasthan, Himacham Pardesh and Delhi. These states are given hydro projects which is affordable and cheap. The electricity that Punjab is given comes from the thermal plant which is more expensive. Don't think its better for Punjab. Instead it is worse because most of the electricity will be used by farmers who happen to be Sikhs. This means they will have to pay more than others. It doesn't effect Hindus because they live in cities and work in other professions. Cheap electricity which belongs to Punjab and which could save Sikh farmers some money is given to the other Indian states. The government increased its activities against Sikhs in late the 70s which led to massacre of thirteen Sikhs in 1978 who were peacefully protesting against an Indian agent who was preaching anti Sikh material. When Sikhs filed a case in the supreme court in Punjab, it was heard in Haryana because the majority was Hindus in that state. Those majority people (Hindus) accused Sikhs for causing the trouble and the agent and his followers were released. This really outraged Sikhs. At that time a person named Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale started preaching Sikhism in Punjab and all over India. He spoke against Indian activities against Sikhs. His speeches made Sikhs realize that they were not free in India. They were being treated like second class citizens. Sikhs started demanding more rights and wanted to be treated like first class citizens. Sikhs launched a peaceful march. A band of 51 Sikhs would go to protest peacefully and would get arrested by the police. But Indian government didn't care and more than 150,000 Sikhs were arrested. This lasted for more than two years. In between this time, the police burnt copies of Sri Guru Granth Sahib at Mehta Choank, killed many Sikhs in fake encounters. But not a single case was filed. On the other hand when a Hindu was killed by police, prime minister Indira Gandhi herself came over to his house and gave his family money. His case was filed within hours. But police and the government did not do anything when copies of Sri Guru Granth Sahib were burnt. Many Sikhs were killed but their families didn't receive anything from the government. Indian government completely showed that one Hindu's life was more important than not only 150 Sikhs that were killed but also Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. When Sikhs lost all the hopes from the government, they raised arms as instructed by Guru Gobind Singh Ji to get freedom. Seeing this Indian government launched a sudden attack on Golden Temple and killed thousands of Sikhs. Other 45 Gurdwaras were also attacked by the army. Women were dishonored. Many innocent children were killed. After the attack was over all Sikhs inside the Golden Temple were taken out, lined up and then shot dead. Reference library which included many hand written scriptures and priceless antiques was burnt. One bullet had gone through Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Indian troops walked inside Golden Temple with their shoes on. They smoked cigarettes, drank alcohol inside the Gurdwara which was highly disrespectful to the Sikh faith. If there was Khalistan, there would have been no attack on the Golden Temple. After Indira Gandhi was killed, Hindus killed more than 5,000 Sikhs within five days and these riots were led by the congress. Sajjan Kummar (still alive), Lalat Makan and Arjan Das (killed by Sukhdev Singh and Harjinder Singh) were congressmen who played a major role in these riots. They were gives orders by Rajiv Gandhi, Narsima Rao and Attal Bihar Vaajpai (Indian prime minister now). Many Hindu criminals were released from jails to kill Sikhs and each was given 500 rupees and one bottle of liquor. Congressmen gave Hindus the list of Sikhs' properties and their home addresses. Hindus went from house to house, dragged Sikhs, especially young males, out of their homes and burnt them alive. Their properties were looted and destroyed. Hindus' target was to kill Sikh males from age 10 to 40. Women above age of 14 were dishonored. This went on without any interruption from the police. In fact, the police was helping these mobs. Every bus on the road was stopped and checked if there were any Sikhs traveling in it. If they found any Sikh, he was killed on the spot. Police was motivating the mobs by saying "If Sikhs were given even one day to kill Hindus, they would've killed all Hindus in India. You, on the other hand are too slow." These brutal things happened to Sikhs in India. If there was Khalistan there would've been no riots and Hindus wouldn't have dared to attack Sikhs. Sikhs are being killed in fake encounters. There is disappearance of Sikh youth in Punjab. Indian government has killed from 1 to 1.2 million Sikhs and about 70 thousand Sikhs are in jail. Here are some of the methods of torture, humiliation and atrocities used by Indian Government against the Sikhs. These are taken from www.saintsoldiers.net To interrogate the Sikhs, a round log of wood is placed on their legs, and after putting heavy weight on the log it is rotated on the legs. Chilly powder is sprinkled in the eyes and sex organs of the Sikhs. Sikhs are hung upside down from the ceilings till they became unconscious. The body joints are battered. Electric shocks are administered to the genitals making most of the youth impotent Sikh women, during interrogation, are hurt in their sex organs. Filthy abuse is showered on them. Violence is inflicted on the parents in presence of their sons and daughters and vice-versa. Brothers are forced to beat sisters and vice versa. violence is inflicted on adult girls after stripping them naked and their sex organs are damaged. They are sexually assaulted, pregnancies are terminated of the expectant females. Crotchets are pulled apart. The victims of inhuman violence are made to sit naked in winter, and under the sun in summer, kept sleepless for days in solitary cells. Sikhs are subjected to severe beatings and filthy abuse in the presence of their village folks. Dead bodies of Sikhs killed in fake encounters are not handed over to their parents to conceal marks of excessive violence The state manipulates tailored post mortem reports from the doctors, and burns the dead bodies of the Sikhs after falsely declaring them unclaimed. All sorts of excesses are made on the parents of underground Sikh youths. Indiscriminate atrocities are committed on the parents of the underground youth of the area where some militant action takes place. Atrocities are committed without caring for one's age, health, life or death. If some one luckily survives such brutal excesses, it is well and good But if one dies while under "interrogation", then such a dead body is taken out, pierced with some bullets, and a news item is sent that a dreaded terrorist has been shot dead in an encounter Houses of underground Sikh youths are demolished, their belongings are looted, crops destroyed, their tube well motors are taken away, and they are prevented from sowing crops. Even animals of the families of underground Sikh youth are subjected to police anger. After summoning the families to the police station, villagers are told not to take care of the animals of the families of the underground youth. Generally the animals starve to death. False cases are registered against innocent Sikh youths, later they are let off taking fat bribes. Reporters giving true reports are arrested, an undeclared censorship is imposed on them to stop them from exposing police atrocities. Peaceful protests by the Human rights organizations are prohibited. Press is used to launch vicious and false propaganda against the Sikhs. Hardened criminals are inducted into Sikh movement to help in arresting the Sikh revolutionaries and sabotage the movement. Such criminals are inducted to tarnish the fair name of the Sikh revolutionaries are now called the "Black Cats" in the Punjab. Under SSP Izhar Alam, such criminal gangs were named the "Alam Sena." Besides, such police sponsored bands of criminals also operated under the name of Panthic Tiger Force and "Red Brigade." The director general of the police himself admitted about the "Black Cats" bands. In his interview to the India Today on Sept. 15, 188, KPS Gill had announced without an iota of shame that the security forces in Punjab cannot do anything without the help of secret bands (Black Cats). Thousands of innocent pilgrims, children, females, aged people, who got encircled in the Golden Temple during Operation Bluestar were made to die through starvation and thirst. The whole of Punjab was converted into a vast jail by clamping curfew on the entire area. The army bulletin branded all Amritdhaaree's as terrorists. Indian army desecrated the Gurdwaras and committed such atrocities on the Sikhs that even the soul of Ahmed Shah Abdali might have felt ashamed of. The targets of army guns were none else but religious persons, devotees, pilgrims, ladies, old people, children or some militants whom the Indian government deemed as terrorists. No neutral observer was allowed to take stock of the situation. The injured during the attack on the Golden Temple were subjected to extreme partiality. Whereas every assistance and facility was made available to the injured army personnel, there was no such provision for the wounded belonging to the other side. The number of prisoners taken was rather small. There is ample scope for doubt that the Indian army had thought it better to eliminate the thousands of people seized in the Golden Temple instead of taking them prisoners or having to provide them with medical assistance. No need was felt to perform religious rites for the dead pilgrims and devotees. Before consigning the dead bodies to flames, no effort was made to identify them. No relatives were informed. No dead bodies were handed over to the next of kin. In such a situation only the dead or those wishing to be dead could be present at the last rites. All dead bodies were placed in heaps and then con- signed to flames. IT was never insured that among the dead there could also be some Muslim devotees. To cremate is against the tenets of Islam. No need was felt to give a list of the dead to the Red Cross or any other International Agency Despite such atrocities, no commission was appointed to go into this dark episode. Even the British, the foreign rulers, had cared to appoint the Hunter commission to inquire into the Jallianwalla Massacre which was of a much less magnitude on the other hand. The Indian government, on the other hand, took all steps to hide the excesses of the army. These days, Indian government has flooded Punjab with Dehdhari Gurus (human fake Gurus) who preach against Sikhism. RSS, Shiv Sena and Bajrang Dal with the support of Indian government are distributing drugs in colleges. Sikhs are being humiliated in newspapers, on televisions and in movies. Anti-Sikh books are being published by the government to prove that Sikhism is part of Hinduism and Sikhs are Hindus although they will never succeed. If there was Khalistan, there would be no bars in Punjab, no anti Sikh propaganda, no humiliation of Sikh character by the media, and no drug distribution on the land of the Gurus. Some people have many different questions on Khalistan. So I will try to answer those question to the best of my knowledge. First lets look at what American Sikhs of Sikhnet.com say about Khalistan. "The Gurus believed in creating harmony between people of different faiths, so that we could all live together as children of the same God. Khalistan, to me, doesn't support that mission. It creates even more divisions in the name of religion when the Khalsa are here to protect and serve so that religions don't divide people any more. If all of the money, time and energy different people spent on trying to create Khalistan were instead channeled into securing true freedom of religion for all people, the Sikhs would be loved, honored and admired. Sikhs are here to serve the interests of the entire humanity, not just their own interests. This is what a sovereign does. Remember, the Khalsa are the spiritual royalty of the world. We are here to rule-not through power and politics, but through love and service. We are here to protect-not ourselves, but all people. We are here to secure that every human being has a chance to enjoy his or her life the way God intended. That is our duty. Khalistan distracts us from that duty." Yes, Gurus did believe in creating harmony between people of different faiths but what if those faiths turn against us and don't let us fulfill our mission which is Khalsa's mission, then what? Shouldn't we fight for our rights as instructed by Guru Gobind Singh Ji? What is the meaning of the Kirpan if we don't fight for freedom? It is not about land, it is about freedom of religion, speech and everything else. Guru Gobind Singh Ji said that Khalsa should live a free life, but how can we live a free life under someone else's rule especially Hindu rule? Guru Gobind Singh Ji taught Sikhs to stay away from "Bipran Ki Reet". The only way to stay away from it is by having the freedom to fully practice our religion. Since 1947, more and more Sikhs have started following Bipran Ki Reet but not a single Sikh followed Bipran Ki Reet in 18th century. When Sikhs had their own country (1799-1849), it was the best era in Sikhism. Look at all the good things Sikhs did. Sikh population increased significantly. People from America and many European countries lived in the Sikh Kingdom. Did Sikhs not serve the humanity then? Who was not happy in the Sikh country? Not a single person was unhappy and no one was given a death sentence. At the fall of Sikh kingdom Hindus and Muslims both shed tears. This shows that Khalsa treated everyone equally. That's why people of all faiths cried from their hearts when British annexed Punjab. In order to serve the humanity you need lots of money and power. To get money you need a country that would back you up. For example, how did Christian missionaries serve the humanity? They had many countries behind them which gave them all the money they needed. In India, Christian schools were opened by missionaries but the money was provided by England and America. If we have Khalistan, we can do better job in preaching the message of truth. Without political power, it is impossible because there will always be people against you and your religion. Indian government and Brahmins are well aware of Gurus' message but they are doing their best job to destroy it because they are jealous of it. After learning the truth about Sikhism, the British tried to make many conflicts between Sikhs and tried to destroy the Sikh religion. Why were there no converts from English people after they learned the truth? Simple, its because they were jealous because Sikhism preaches the message of truth which conflicts with Christianity. If we have Khalistan, it is a lot easier to do the job. Khalistan will provide money for preachers who would preach the truth. People will only hear you when you have the power, otherwise they will crush you. For example, famous scientist Galileo discovered the truth but did anyone listen to him? He didn't have any political power, so he was killed. Those Christian priests didn't listen to him even though he was telling the truth. If we send a Sikh preacher to preach to any country like Afghanistan, he would be killed because Muslims would not tolerate anything that conflicts with Islam. Then who would be responsible for his death? No country would put force on Afghanistan's government to punish the murderers. But if the same preacher is sent from Khalistan, he has political power behind him which means its less likely that he would be killed. There will a country behind him that supports him. Khalistani government would put pressure on Afghanistan's government to hand over the murderers so they could meet the justice. People will listen to Sikhs if Sikhs have power. Through power we can teach that people shouldn't fight in the name of religion and should live together. We should be worried about our safety first. By living in Khalistan, we can set an example for the people. Who would listen to you if you have no recognition in the world? People would have better knowledge about Sikhism. If people see a person with a turban, they would say he is a Sikh from Khalistan. But today if a Sikh is seen, he is misunderstood to be a Muslim or Hindu. If a Sikh says he is from India, most people automatically assume he is a Hindu. How many people really know about the Sikh religion? Sikhism is more than 500 years old and yet only some 30 million people know the message of the Gurus. WHY? If there is Khalistan, the message of Gurus can be preached in better ways. Think about it. We can teach people how to rule with love and humility if we have Khalistan. Because Khalistan will set an example for them. Khalistan means freedom of religion for the Sikhs. Why would Sikhs ask for freedom of religion if there was no interference in Sikhism by the Indian government? Without Khalistan we can hardly survive let alone having the responsibility of preaching to others. We can't even solve our own issues and Sikhnet is talking about solving world issues and serving the humanity. Thousands of Sikhs were killed in 1984 and their families received no support from anyone. Shouldn't we take care of our people first and then set an example for others and teach them how to do it? For example, If I drink alcohol and tell someone else not to drink it, would he listen to me? It will be all in vain. We need to do it first which means taking care of those orphans whose parents sacrificed for the Sikh faith. Have Sikhnet people served those people yet? They live in America. What do they know about situation of Punjab and Sikhs living there? They are definitely not serving people living in many third world countries. Besides, they have already separated themselves from the rest of the world by living in America. If Khalistan divides people then they are divided already because America is also separated from other countries. American government sent air force to Afghanistan that bombed many cities and killed many innocent people. Have Sikhnet people taught anything to their own government yet? Their own government divided them and separated them from the rest of the world. How can we preach freedom of religion if we are not free and don't have freedom of religion. As I have stated in beginning that Guru Gobind Singh Ji said in his own words "Raj Bina Nahin Dharam Chale Hain, Dharam Bina Sab Dalle Malle Hain" means sovereignty is a MUST in order for a religion to survive otherwise religion perishes. Now should we listen to Sikhnet people and anti Khalistan people or Guru Gobind Singh Ji. Sikhism is a way of life which says religion, science and politics are together. That's why Akaal Takhat Sahib stands in front of Darbar Sahib. I just don't know how can Khalistan distract them from doing anything that Sikhi requires. "All Sikhs-regardless of what their cultural background-recognize the line as saying, "Khalsa shall rule." The question is-in what manner will they rule? The ruler ship of Khalsa is not one of physical might, but one of spiritual sovereignty." Very true, but Bhai Sahib Bhai Randheer Singh Ji, Baba Nand Singh Ji, Sant Gurbachan Singh Ji Bhindranwale and many other saints have said that Khalsa Rule of the world shall come through humility. A Khalsa rules over his five thieves and maya which makes him a spiritual ruler. This means there is a spiritual sovereignty. If we look at Sikhs of 18th century, we find that each and every one of them was a real Sikh and Khalsa. They were real Sikhs who had total control over five thieves because they had reached the highest level of spirituality. So they were ruling spiritually already. The problem with the above interpretation is that it implies that no Khalsa has been capable of spiritual sovereignty because it says Khalsa will rule spiritually. Another question rises from this interpretation. It also implies that Sikhs have been reading "Raj Karega Khalsa" for over 300 years and they had been unable to understand its true meanings until these "White Sikhs" came along. This is very wrong. All Sikhs knew what it meant. Only Khalsa is qualified for sovereignty. Now, if we look at the Shabad clearly, we find that "Khalsa" is referred to the whole Panth not a single person. Because a Khalsa who becomes one with the Guru and has total control over five thieves has spiritual sovereignty already. So it must be referring to the whole Panth. When the whole Panth gets together and wakes up in the morning to do Naam Simran, Khalsa Raj will come and there is no doubt about it. I don't say it, many respected Saints in the Panth have said it. Bhai Rama Singh Ji from England has said the same thing and it is well written in his book. Guru Ji has given us the Raj but are we well qualified or capable of ruling? The only way Khalsa is qualified to rule is when Khalsa does Naam Simran and follows the Rehat Maryada of Guru Ji. Today Sikhs are not doing that. Most of Sikhs do not even take Amrit. So are we qualified? No we are not. Sikhnet people have no understanding about the Sikh history of 18th century. "Being a Sikh in Northern India is both a cultural ethnicity and a spiritual identity. Because of that-there are a lot of issues that you face in the Punjab related to politics, society and culture. Those of us who have become Sikhs in the West already have a cultural and political identity. However, Sikhs in the Punjab have political, social and economic challenges to face. Because of that, you connect very strongly with Guru Gobind Singh's message of standing up to tyranny and becoming sovereign over your own life. We firmly believe that when people are willing to live in tune with the Will of God, then all these social, political and economic injustices will automatically come back into balance. But as long as people do not live surrendered to the Will of God, the imbalances will continue. If it God's will that the Sikhs have an independent state, then all you need to do is meditate and learn how to surrender yourself to God's Will and by His hand, without any effort from your ego, it shall happen." There are many problems with the above statements. First they say they don't support dividing people but now they say "It is not their issue that Punjabi Sikhs are being killed in India." When a person takes Amrit he loses his own identity and his caste. After taking Amrit he/she belongs to Anandpur Sahib and his father is Guru Gobind Singh Ji and mother Mata Sahib Kaur Ji. Anandpur Sahib is in Punjab. So either you belong to Punjab or you belong to America. According to the above statement Sikhnet people do not want to belong to Anandpur Sahib. They say they already have a culture but American culture is so anti-Sikh. Just look at it. Does American culture fit in Sikh religion? Not at all. When you become a Sikh your identity either political or spiritual becomes one. So there is no point in saying that they have different political identity. There is no political system better than Akal Takhat's Sahib which was set up by Guru Ji. By saying they already have a political identity they mean that they don't belong to political system of Guru Gobind Singh instead they belong to American politics which is created by humans. Once you are 21 you can legally buy drugs and smoke tobacco in America. This is the American law. Is this the identity they belong to???? Use of tobacco and drugs is prohibited in Sikhi and is against Sikh principles but American political laws legalized it. If you are a Sikh, you belong to Anandpur Sahib and the highest political authority for you becomes Akaal Takhat Sahib. Did Panj Pyare not tell them this or they are sticking with American political system on purpose? Sikhs are connected with Akaal Takhat Sahib just as the Catholics are connected with the Vatican. Sikhs are not fighting because they want to rule over others. They are fighting for the truth because Indian government attacked Golden temple and killed thousands of Sikhs. Khalsa is fighting against oppression. Khalistan is not about political issues. It is about religious freedom. Guru Ji taught us to fight for the truth and for justice. Did Guru Ji not fight for justice? He did and so is His Khalsa. Sikhs in the 18th century fought for truth and the right cause. Did they not live in tune with will of God? Guru Gobind Singh Ji fought against oppression because Guru Ji said "When all other means have failed, it is your right to raise arms and fight for your rights." This is exactly what Sikhs are doing. We have to be both Saints and Warriors. Practicing Naam Simran and fighting against oppression at the same time is what Guru Ji has taught us. Guru Gobind Singh Ji said that sovereignty is a MUST for a religion otherwise it perishes. Do they have different interpretation of this? If the only purpose of Sikhi is to meditate and accept the will of God then what was the point of building Akaal Takhat Sahib? The whole point is to fight for the truth while doing Naam Simran and following Sikhi. Besides, fighting for justice and righteousness is part of Sikhi which they are not following. A Khalsa should fight his inner thieves and outer thieves. If you don't fight then anyone can take over you. If everything is only about meditating then Guru Nanak Dev Ji wouldn't speak against Babur. Babur didn't do anything to Guru Ji but Guru Ji spoke for human rights and the truth. Why didn't Guru Ji just say "these are not my issues. I am not being harmed. If others are being harmed then its not my problem?" Why didn't Guru Ji say this if this is the right way? Why didn't Guru Nanak Dev Ji wait for God to end the whole oppression? Why did Guru Ji have to speak for the people? Why should we wait for God to do something? "God helps those who help themselves" (Benjamin Franklin-an American politician and forefather). This is very true. If we should wait for God to do something then why didn't Guru Ji wait for God to do something? Why did Guru Ji fight? Why did Guru Tegh Bahadur Ji sacrifice to save the Hindu religion? He could've waited for God to fix the whole problem but He didn't because Guru Ji knew it was not the right way. If we just sit back and start doing Naam Simran then anyone would be able to crush us. Guru Ji made us Saint-Warriors. So where is the warrior spirit in Sikhnet people? God gave us two hands and Kirpan is given by Guru Gobind Singh Ji and we have to fight for our rights with our hands if it comes to it. Sikhs are instructed to make their own destiny not to just sit back and wait for God to do it. Then what would be the purpose of God given hands? For example, look at Jews. They are accepting the will of God but there are less Jews in the world than Sikhs. Did they not accept will of God in WW2 in which they lost 6 million of their people? Had they fought using their hands, the outcome of the holocaust may be different. They have suffered for over 5000 years but if they had fought against oppression it would have been a lot different. The Indian government's plan was to go to every village to kill Sikhs which was called Operation Wood Rose but the Sikh army rebelled and government's attention turned to rebellions, otherwise they would've killed all Sikhs. I speak for human rights whether it be Sikhs or Jews or Christians. I think the Sikhnet people are missing the whole point. By the time they realize the truth, it will be too late but Khalsa Shall Rule. Punjab belongs to us and we will rule it. I want to ask them one question: If the whole American government turns against them (Sikhnet people) and their children are killed in the streets, men are burnt alive, women are dishonored and the government doesn't punish the criminals, would they still say that they are proud to be Americans or would they rather support a separate country? Would they still live among those who killed them? Would they raise a sword and fight like Guru Gobind Singh Ji has taught us or they rather spend their time in serving the criminals and not fight for justice? Or would they just forget about the whole thing, get themselves killed and wait for God to do something? Guru Ji said "Soora So Pehchaniye Jo Lare Deen Ke Haith" which literally means "Brave are those who fight for truth and justice with honor and valor." So why shouldn't we fight to protect our faith? If we should wait for God to do it then why did Guru Ji say these lines? Just for the heck of it? Think about it. Perhaps they should get themselves out of the trap of pacifist thinking and think about the teaching of Gurus only for a moment. We are responsible for our own actions and for doing good and bad things. The Sikhnet people say they belong to America but their own government doesn't recognize them. September 11 was a very bad disaster for Sikhs. How many Americans know about Sikhi? These Americans killed Sikhs. Sikhs were attacked all over the country (look at attacks on Sikhs http://www.attacksonsikhs.com/viewreports.cfm). If there was a Sikh country to back up the foreign Sikhs and to give them support, this wouldn't have happened. Sikhs should always wear a Kirpan but Sikhs are not allowed to wear Kirpans on airplanes, and other government places. Not even in most schools. Sikhs have been living in America for over 100 years and yet American government hasn't understood the significance of Kirpan and they never will until there is a country that represents Sikhs. Sikhs are not admitted in the army and police. In America, which is the most democratic country in the world, Sikhs are being discriminated. In Khalistan Sikhs will be allowed to wear Kirpans everywhere and only then the world would learn about the true message of Sikhi. If there was a Sikh country, no one would have attacked Gurdwaras and killed Sikhs. If there was a Sikh country, the situation would have been different and Punjab wouldn't be stuck between the nuclear war of India and Pakistan. If there is a war, the whole of Punjab will be destroyed. How does their community service help solving the real problems of Sikhs? The Indian government is spending billions of rupees to bring Sikhism into the fold of Hinduism. How does their community service help Sikhs to stop Indian government, RSS and Noormahals from attacking their Sikh brothers in Punjab and India? How? Sikhs are fighting to keep their distinction and appearance, to save their religion and to keep Sikhi alive. If that means a separate country then why not? It doesn't mean we want to divide the world but shouldn't we think about securing Sikh faith first and all the virtues it stands for? If the Indian government doesn't like us and doesn't want to live with Sikhs, then why shouldn't we just be separated? When we gain power we can promote Sikhi and teach the message of the Gurus and universal brotherhood. Can this not be done? Khalistan is not for bad purpose. When I ask any non-Punjabi Sikh about Khalistan, the vast majority have the same answer that they don't want to be separated or wouldn't want to move to Khalistan. But who says you have to move. Sikhs will still live in other countries. But most of Sikhnet people reply in exactly the same words. Sounds like they need to learn the true purpose of fighting. Perhaps they are sticking with community service a whole lot but what if those people we want to help turn against us, should we not fight to defend ourselves? If yes, then that's exactly what Sikhs are doing. If no, then that is not Sikhi. Now some general questions from Punjabi people. These are the people who are not Amritdhari. They don't practice Sikhism at all. They eat meat, drink alcohol, smoke and do everything that is prohibited by Gurus and yet they call themselves Sikhs. Before I go into their questions, I want to say that only an Amritdhari person is a Sikh. One who follows Guru's teaching is a Sikh and Khalistan is for Sikhs. Everyone will have religious freedom but people who commit adultery, smoke, drink alcohol etc. will not be allowed to live there because not only Sikhism but also all religions prohibit these things. How would Khalistan survive economically? Well, how did India and Pakistan survive after independence? UAE gained its independence in 1971 and it is surviving. Same way Khalistan will survive but it will not be a third world country because Sikhs are very hard working people. Punjab is a cultivated land and it provides most of the food for India. Punjab produces corn, wheat, sugarcanes, sporting goods, clothing, industrial material and many other commodities. Khalistani government will keep this stuff as much as it needs and the rest will be shipped out to other countries as a trade and in return oil and other necessities will be bought. No one in Khalistan will die out of hunger because if Punjab can provide food for 90% of the Indian population then it surely can provide food for everyone in Khalistan because the population in Khalistan will be a lot less than Indian population. Who will be the leader of Khalistan? Panj Pyare will be the leaders of Khalistan. Elections will be held every four years and people will choose Panj Pyare. These Panj Pyare will rule under the authority of Akaal Takhat Sahib. Every city will have Panj Pyare as its leader. There will be no bad leaders in Khalistan because when Khalsa Panth starts doing Naam Simran in the morning, it will gain spiritual power which no one will be able to destroy. Foundation of Khalistan will be laid upon the power of Naam Simran. Guru Gobind Singh Ji said "When Khalsa starts following the true path of the Guru Granth Sahib and abandons all the bad things, I will give them sovereignty." So when the time for Khalistan comes, every Sikh will be a true Sikh and there will be no bad people in Sikhism. Guru Ji said "Raaj Karega Khalsa Aakki Rahe Na Koe" which means Khalsa shall rule and there will be no one against Khalsa. Khalsa Raj (Khalistan) shall come for sure. Khalistan will be a true Khalsa Raj. What about sea ports? There are 42 landlocked countries in the world that are surviving. To say or think that just because of lack of seaport Khalistan will not survive is irrational. There are many third world countries that have sea ports such as Sri Lanka, and Brazil. Landlocked countries are helped by their neighboring countries that have seaports. In return these countries get money and/or something else in exchange. There are numerous possibilities in business. We can use Pakistan’s and/or India’s seaports. I don’t think there is any country that does not want to do business and make profit. How exactly would this work depends on the future, circumstances and situations. Oil can also be imported through India or Pakistan. United Nations is working on passing a treaty that would help landlocked countries get access to seaports. We can survive without a seaport. What would happen if there is war between Pakistan and India? Khalistan will be a neutral country and will be a buffer state between the two countries. With Khalistan as a buffer state both countries will feel safe from each other. Neither Pakistan nor India would dare to step on Khalistan's boundaries. India has fought two wars with Pakistan and every time Pakistan was defeated because only Sikhs fought on the boundaries of Punjab. Sikhs are a martial race. British recognized that soon after Punjab was annexed. Guru Gobind Singh Ji made Sikhs saint-warriors. Sikhs in Khalistan will be true saints and warriors. They will have power of Naam Simran because they will free Khalistan on the power of Naam Simran and one who has this power is never afraid of anyone other than God. By doing Nam Simran one never fears death. We have numerous example from the 18th century. Sikh country will be very powerful and Pakistan would not try to mess with it. Hindus can't fight, so there is no question that Indian government will ever dream of attacking Khalistan. If there is war between India and Pakistan, they will have to fight it outside of Sikh territory. What about control over Gurdwaras outside of Khalistan? Well, all the Gurdwaras will be directly controlled by the Khalistani government run under Akaal Takhat Sahib. Currently, Indian government is not doing anything about the Gurdwaras in Pakistan, Afghanistan and other countries because the Indian government doesn't want Sikhs to be attached with their Gurdwaras. Indian government thinks the only way to destroy Sikhism is to keep Sikhs away from Guru Granth Sahib's message and the Gurdwaras. Gurdwaras outside of India are still standing without the support of Indian government but when there is Khalistan, the government will do its best to take care of these holy places and agreements will be made with the other countries that would give us the direct control over the Gurdwaras. We can negotiate with Pakistani government and have control over our Gurdwaras and they can have control over their mosques. We will negotiate with Pakistani government to give us the control over Sikh Gurdwaras. Committees will be established to manage these Gurdwaras. Monthly reports will be submitted to the officials (not necessarily to the federal government). The money of the Gurdwaras will be spent in managing the Gurdwaras, Sikh schools, parchaar, helping the poor and needy. There is no constitution? Yes, there is but people just never search for it. Khalistan will be totally based on the principles of Sikhi. Gurbani is the constitution. There is not and can never be a better constitution than Gurbani. Guru Ji wrote this constitution more than 400 years ago. But look at the reality. Constitution of the USA was written ten years after thirteen colonies gained independence. Constitution of India was written three years after it gained independence. If these countries can write their constitution after independence then why can't we? No country is perfect. Every country has loopholes in its laws and policies so expecting flawless plans and policies from Khalistanis is not realistic. Laws can be changed. India has amended its constitution many times. So, do not expect a perfect constitution and policies from Khalistan. We should free it peacefully? Guru Gobind Singh Ji said "Koi Kisi Ko Raaj Na Dehain, Jo Lehain Nij Bal Se Lehain" which means "no one gives one freedom and sovereignty, the only way to gain independence is by through power." So is Guru Ji wrong? No definitely not. Thousands Sikhs were killed because they did not have arms and weapons to defend them from mobs. Had they had weapons they would have protected themselves just like couple of Sikhs protected Sees Ganj Sahib Gurdwara in Delhi from four thousand Hindus by taking up arms. Power is not just war with weapons but also war with the pen, intellect, diplomacy and justice. Sikhs lack these today which is why Sikhs need Khalistan. Some people say that their families were killed on the name of Khalistan so they don't support it. But they should look at the facts. If there was Khalistan their families would have never gotten killed. Also, their families were killed because they were Sikhs. Five thousand Sikhs didn't support Khalistan when they were killed in the streets. They were killed because they were Sikhs. Indian government just used the name of Khalistan as an excuse but in reality Indian government never liked any Sikh whether he was Khalistani or Indian. Some people ask What does Khalistan mean for Sikhs in foreign countries? Well, the answer is simple. Khalistan will play a great role in the lives of foreign Sikhs. A strong country will represent them and will preach Sikhi. Foreign countries will understand the true meaning of Kirpan and Sikhs will be allowed to wear Kirpans at all places. Now, Sikhs can't wear Kirpans on airplanes, immigration office, courts and even jails. Governments will never understand the true meaning of Kirpan unless a country represents Sikhi and supports this idea. People think of Sikhi as just a sect because there is no representation of Sikhi in world's politics. Jews thought Christianity was a sect but this changed when Christians took over some countries and they became a separate religion. Khalistan will represent all Sikhs living anywhere in the world. After 9/11 a Sikh was killed in Arizona and many were attacked but the government didn't do much about it. No one even remembers that Sikh now. Khalistan will preach Sikhi and will represent Sikhi and will force the foreign governments to take control and punish the criminals. There will be less discrimination, killing and misunderstanding about Sikhi. In fact, there will be no more misunderstanding and discrimination when there is Khalistan. You will see, Khalistan will be the most powerful country in the world. I can go on but I think you understand what I mean. Also, I think the Panthic Rehat Maryada should be one before there is Khalistan because Sikhs should be connected to each other spiritually. If we drop our differences and keep our own different Rehat Maryada then we won't become a single family. Even if we assume that after keeping our differences we manage to free Khalistan then which Rehat Maryada will be issued from Akaal Takhat Sahib? Sikhs will end up fighting with each other. Example of the thirteen colonies is a perfect example to look at. The thirteen colonies dropped their difference and defeated British. After they gained independence, they became so weak because there was no central government. They started fighting each other internally to gain more power. So I personally think we should become one first and have one Rehat Maryada. Besides, Guru Gobind Singh Ji gave us one Rehat Maryada not many. According to the book of Bhai Rama Singh "Roop Gobind Ka, Raj Khalse Da, Sikka Sone Da" the Khalsa Raj will come for sure. He was a great person with very high spirituality. He has written many things about Khalistan. I recommend everyone to read it because it explains the true concept of Khalistan. It also explains how Khalistan will be free and how Indian government will be defeated. So if you want to learn the real truth read this book, otherwise you will miss a lot about the concept of Khalistan. Guru Arjan Dev Ji gave the sacrifice and we became victorious. Guru Tegh Bahadur Ji gave the sacrifice, and we became victorious. Guru Gobind Singh’s entire family gave the sacrifice and we became victorious. Today, our Akal Takhat has chosen to offer itself as a sacrifice, and we shall not lose. We will get our Khalistan. So get those doubts about Khalistan out of your minds. Khalistan will come. Sikhs will rule Punjab because Punjab belongs to Sikhs and it is their birthright. Finally I want to say Khalistan is needed for some of the following reasons: A central government that represents Sikhs All Sikhs of all races need a homeland It is the duty of all Sikhs to protect Sikhi To keep Sikhi alive by promoting it in other countries in better ways and offer PhDs of Guru Granth Sahib in Sikh universities A peaceful life for all Sikhs which Sikhs haven't enjoyed since 1849 Freedom to wear Kirpan at all places Complete break off from the Hindus and Bipran Ki Reet No more discrimination, injustice and lies to Sikhs No more oppression, holocausts and attacks on Golden Temple No more disappearance of Sikhs in Punjab No more killing of Sikhs in fake encounters No more of insults of Sikh women, turban and Sikh principles No more attacks on Sikh Gurus by Indian government's agents and many more reasons but I hope you understand now. Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh Khalistan Zindabad

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i have seen footage of amrit sanchars on videos, i think they were around the 84 era. What would be so wrong about it?

I like sunny_love_kirtan's contribution to this website. I would like him even more if he resurrected that thread about home cooking... :biggrin2:

Not the whole truth is known the singh jatha that went to meet bhaji in jail were not allowed to meet him as they said he doesnt want to meet anyone apart from the Akhal Thakt Jathedar. Seems strange and i hope this has nothing to with politics and the current newly brougt in goverment in punjab. Though Bhaji wants to become a shaheed we need him on this planet and as the sangat can veto this request because even migty Guru ji listened to the Singhs at the time of the battle of Chamkauur..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gT9mD2SrC3A

I have always wondered why did ancient chinese people kept long hair especially the warriors they seem to have topknot guthi's as its interesting how they kept their hair uncut similar to how our Khalsa's are ment to. "And this is an answer I found thought id share In Chinese traditional society, people believe hair is part of the body and is bestowed from their parents. To show the reverence and gratitude of the birth given by whom, ancient Chinese normally keep their body from unnecessary harm and don't cut hair. So even men have long hair in the past, it's the fashion of Qin Dynasty to twist hair at back of head, then cover and fasten it by using headpiece such as a bandanna. That's the reason why the warriors seem to have knots in their hair."

i came to check if anybody posted my name

Upna make the choice to go to Namdharis or RSS or Babas.. As for RSS we know the truth already, would you let your children believe lies, we have the internet we tell the honest truth, we have substantial proof the fear is later on maybe 100 years on that the RSS lies become truth is the problem. But we have people like Udhooke we have people like you who tell the truth. You can inject lots of money billions into lies but it remains lies and the truth is that powerful. If we were to inject billions into saying the world was flat someone with the scientific proof that the world is round can prove them wrong. The RSS are waste mans, we need to do our own Sikhi thing. One sadhu once insulted the guru once, guru ji told his sikhs to carry on walking and after a while guru gave his sewak a diamond for his sewa that sikh was not interested in the diamond they only cared for the guru so they gave that diamond to the sadhu, next day the sadhu who was naked and dirty started singing praises of the guru. The guru asked about it and the sikh told him, the guru saw potential in that sikh for understanding not to be worldly attached and to seek the gurus sift salah, gurbani being a true dimaond as compared to the fake rock, that sikh was given gurgaddi later on.

=2 links that describe the resons for farmers suicides in india

The old argument we cant even manage gurdwara commitee's how we gonna manage a khalistan is just an excuse not to fight for self determination, its a defeatist attitude. I believe we should have some kind of platform where we can have our say as a global sikh kaum on how our future khalistan would look like and who would lead it etc. At the moment we do not have a credible leadership, these leaders are either sucking up to islamo-facist ISI mullah-vad pakistan or they are sucking up to the Indian unionist state terror loving nationalist leaders and parties. We need to have every camp of Sikhism come together and argue our cases out what route we should take. Because the present circumistances suit us no longer there is too many problems going on in the Sikh homeland of Punjab and we cant ignore them if we are true believers and defenders of this precious beautiful faith.

Waheguru ji ka Khalsa Waheguru ji ki Fateh Dear Members of this solicitous forum, I want to bring to your attention that the youth is also concerned about the education now a days. I think we should start a Thread to discuss the details like higher studies and Sikhs in Universities around the world. Please put forward your points on this.. I am eagerly waiting for your replies. Satshriakal

No, I think that it's both free will and destiny. Our past karm determines some things like situation and circumstance like if we're born rich, poor, disabled, orphans etc (the things we have no control over) but we get to decide how we will act in these situations/circumstances. Who we will marry, the children, education, income I think is also destiny. But we can choose other actions. I heard that 65% of our life is predetermined and 35% is our choice. So basically you land in a predetermined situation and the way you act, respond to it determines if you win or lose. Like a test, the teacher chooses the questions, you choose the answers.

I wonder who the puppet master is who pulls the strings and directs these acts of misinformation? Is it a department within the adminstration of the government of India with a set policy of dividing and weakening Sikhs, or have certain Sikhs done a grand job of it themselves?

The British gifted 5 horses to Maharaja Ranjit Singh Ji: (unsure on source as had this saved on HDD). I have read about the British gifting Suffolk Cart Horses (Suffolk Punch) to Shere-e-Panjab. The British made great use of the Suffolk Punch in India, especially to produce good sturdy mules for the army. The Pak army still has the Suffolk Punch breed at their Equine Farm at Mona. The Indian army also had some but I am unsure about the current situation.

Please recite or listen to Chaupai Sahib for the Chardi Kala of the Panth.

I really don't know much about horses per se. Wish I did coz its such an integral part of who I am as a Sikh. Wasn't it Nadir Shah who made the prediction that the Sikhs would rule their own vast empire when he was told of how the horse is the home of the Sikhs.....i.e how we live in the saddle ? Also, when there was a price on the head of every Sikh man, woman and child....simply for being a Sikh....our forefathers lived on horseback, never staying in one location for more than 3 days at a time (coz thats how long it would take the mughal forces to get there once the local Hindus and Muslims had informed on us in order to claim their reward) (incidentally......would I be right in thinking that may be the true origin of our tradition of akhand paths that last 3 days ?.......seeing as history shows us that families of Sikhs would only show up in an area for 3 days max before riding off again ?) Anyway, I digress. Really like this thread, Here's an account of the way the Sikhs used their horses to great effect during the anglo-sikh battle at Chillianwala. (incidentally....50 years before that battle Ranjit Singh allowed a British historian into the Sikh Kingdom to do some archialogical research and that historian / archeaologist found that the epic Alexander the great and Porus battle was fought on the very same spot where the Chillianwala sikh battle was eventually fought). Anyway....This is the account by Sgt. William Forbes Mitchell : "Our English cavalry with their blunt swords were most unequally matched against the Sikhs with talwars so keen of edge that they would split a hair... I remember reading of a regiment of British cavalry charging a regiment of Sikh cavalry. The latter wore voluminous thick puggries round their heads, which our blunt swords were powerless to cut through, and each horseman had also a buffalo hide shield slung on his back. They evidently knew that the British swords was blunt and useless, so they kept their horses still and met the British charge by laying flat on their horses' necks, with their heads protected by their thick turbans and their backs by the shields; and immediately the British soldiers passed through their ranks, the Sikhs swooped round on them and struck back-handed with their sharp, curved swords, in several instances cutting our cavalry men in two..." There is one thing, however, that I'm curious to find out about. Did the Khalsa army bang their horses tail (trim the hair) ? I know for sure that the horses used by the British Army on the other side of the Sutlej definately did so......but I'm curious to know if the French generals that were training the Sikhs also had that practice and whether they brought the practice with them to the Sikh Kingdom ?

VJKKVJKF Jee Does anybody have any tanti saaj lying around and would like to sell? (dilruba, esraaj, taaoos etc) Need a few. If you know anybody that isn't on this forum who would like to sell then please tell them to email me on essenceofsikhi@yahoo.co.uk or you can speak on behalf of them. Thanks! VJKKVJKF Jee

West London Singh Rather than patronise people why not come up with the facts and figures. Amritsar city was never majority Muslim. Muslims were 47.8% in 1941 at a time when the census was heavily skewed against the Sikhs as the Sikhs and Hindus were in the throes of the non-cooperation movement and the Muslims having a Unionist government in charge were able to massage the census figures. There is no doubt that Sikhs committed many atrocities in East Punjab just after the partition line was drawn. Maybe sitting in sofa pontificating about how Sikhs murdered Muslims gives you some kind of buzz but what is important is to consider why the atrocities happened. Half the Sikh population had just been ethnically cleansed from West Punjab. A great many historic shrines were now left in Pakistan, millions of acres of ther best land in Asia was in one stroke taken from the owners and passed to the tenants. There was no reason for Muslims to leave East Punjab. The Nehru and Gandhi fools would have wanted the East Punjab to remain 30% Muslim and the Sikhs and HIndus from West Punjab either sent back as refugees to Pakistan or resettled outside of Punjab. The Jathas that went to work on the Muslims did so after the realisation came to Sikh leaders that the Pakistani would force all the non-Muslims out but still want to retain a fifth column of Muslims in East Punjab. If the Muslims had stayed then after 1947 the Sikhs would still have been a minority in places like Amritsar, Jalandhar and Ludhiana. Massacres were committed on both sides. The clearing of Amritsar after 1947 was a direct result of the violence committed by Muslims against the non-Muslims in March 1947. The reason that Muslims MIGHT have had more dead than Sikhs who because apart from the Sikhs in Rawalpindi area who were subject to a general massacre, the Sikhs from Lyallpur and Montgomery were all former soldiers and their families who were allotted land in these districts after WW1. When they left the district it was organised into Jathas with jatha leaders, lookouts and scouts. The Muslims who left East Punjab did so in a general panic and their caravans were not wel organised. The Sikhs of Lahore, Gujranwala, Sialkot and Sheikhupura owned a majority of the land, hence they also had the wherewithal to organise their caravans well. The facts of the massacre were that Pakistan was sold to the Muslim masses of West Punjab as a way in which they would be able to appropriate the land of the Sikhs and the factories of the Hindus. If the Sikhs and Hindus stayed in West Punjab then what was the reason to have a Pakistan when the Muslims would still be tenants of the Sikh landlords and still have to repay the money that they had borrowed off the Hindu moneylenders. The reason for the massacre of Muslims inm East Punjab was -; 1. To create space for the Sikhs and Hindus who were being forced out of West Punjab. 2. Revenge for the killings of Sikhs and Hindus in March 1947 and after. 3. As with no.1 to create an area where the Sikhs would be a majority and not face the same situation again As for Malerkotla, I'll go out on a limb here. It was wasn't to do with the story of the Sahibzadas, it was two things. One the Jathas did not feel the need to attack the Muslims in the state as the Muslims of Malerkotla had not attacked Sikhs there. Muslims in other East Punjab areas had attacked Sikhs. A case in point was the 'Bet' area which was the lowlying land both sides of the Satluj river which had Muslim villages. Muslims in the bet area of Ludhiana had attacked Sikhs who were passing through the area. The other reason for not attacking Malerkotla was that the belief was that as nearly all the non-Muslims had left West Punjab then the Muslims of Malerkotla too would be evacuated by the military. This is an interesting discussion but marred by people how think they know more but cannot back their statements with facts.

Kaljugi

Absolutely No.

A little background on Bhai Rajoana: http://www.sikh24.co...a-to-be-hanged/

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH || NANAKSHAHI CALENDAR DE MUTABAK SIKHI DA 544 SAAL || SAREA NU LAKH LAKH VADAYEE :khalsa: VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH ||

Can sikhs make a documantry about criminals in india who raped and murdered and use social media to educate the world

Do you have a source for this, a source that has merit?

I wish they had closed BBC Asian Network down. It's so c**p!

Well that says it all. Can't get any more ignorant and offensive than that! Guess we can phone in and all but will this even be of any use, unless upward of a thousand phone in? West London Singh, I admire your attempts to provide balanced arguments and all, but I think you get carried away too much sometimes to the extent that you start batting for the other side! Nihal was way out of order on this one.

HONG KONG 7 APRIL 2012 (VAISAKHI NAGAR KIRTAN)

facebook is for losers who want to show off their friends list and brag about how popular they are.

No im not amritdhari I am concerned though that religion is being associated with political parties.

This is not what KhalistaniGunMan is suggesting

Yes im sikh, but only go gurudwara when I get chance, the olds go more often. This really gets on my nerves when people question if you do this you are not sikh blah blah blah - who the hell are you to decide? God? Exactly now be quiet. Indian National Congress is lead my Manmohan Singh so I cant think why its wrong because they are secular and get much votes as SAD. BJP have a large following in Punjab so what you are suggesting is wrong when im sure there is a 1 in 2 chance a Sikh has voted them.

Is SAD secular? I say this as Punjab is a mixture of communities and beliefs, It would be interesting to read the manifesto. People should vote whats right for them, for example I vote Conservative and you can vote Labour but it does not stop either of us being more sikh than each other. What about; BJP? Indian National Congress? BSP? People's Party of Punjab?

I had a chat about this to many friends who also confirmed with me their families had no troubles during 84 but this does not stop me believing in law and order as there was alot of militancy at the time in Punjab that needed to be addressed. I dont want my homeland being called a little Pakistan.

What? So if someone dont agree with you they taking the micky. My family had no troubles during 1984 and we have a family, If anyone commits crime then sure they should be punished I agree.

Come on guys Just like the football world cup, a concert is not out of the norm when things come to a end. The wounds from past incidents do not need reopening - India has moved on. There is no better time to being a Sikh in India now for example the PM is Sikh, sports to with Harbhajan and Yuvraj and even popular culture too with Mahek Chahal and Sunny in the finals of Big Boss 5, however Pooja Bedi (a descendent of Guru Nanak Ji) was voted out a few weeks back. Personally I thought Shah Rukh Khan put on a good show and its great seeing a Pathan respecting jaikara.

In not too sure India is a secular nation so we dont need to be labelled! If we go down your path why not ask, where is the Bahai Nations? Zoroastrian Nations? Scientology Nations? Jain Nations? Catch my drift?

WAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA ,WAHEGURU JI KI FATEH....... .●๋•ωнєη ι ωαѕ вσяη, ι ωαѕ ѕιкн,●๋• ●๋•ωнєη ι gяєω υρ, ι ωαѕ ѕιкн,●๋• ●๋•ωнєη ι'м ѕι¢к, ι'м ѕιкн,●๋• ●๋•ωнєη ι gσ ιη тнє ѕυη, ι'м ѕιкн,●๋• ●๋•ωнєη ι'м ¢σℓ∂, ι'м ѕιкн,●๋• ●๋•ωнєη ι ∂ιє, ι'ℓℓ вє ѕιкн,●๋• ●๋•ƒσя ѕιкнι ι ѕнαℓℓ gινє,●๋• ●๋•ƒσя ѕιкнι ι ѕнαℓℓ ℓινє,●๋• ●๋•ƒσя ѕιкнι ι ѕнαℓℓ ¢яｿ, ●๋• ●๋•αη∂ σηℓｿ ƒσя ѕιкнι, ι ѕнαℓℓ ∂ιє!●๋•

A very inspirational post! Freed is a soorma in his young age (probably still the same).

Nihangs hair Massage Dumalla tying at Amritsar A Nihangni A very colourful and pointy style ! Afghan Style - a picture from a pharmacy in Kunduz, Afghanistan - showing an Afghan Sardar Ji - wearing the distinctive Dastar worn by the Afghan Sangat. The Maharaja of Patiala - Bhupinder Singh , known for his beautiful turban - The Patiala Shahi Style - here shown in Madrid , Spain 1928 Divine Light Hope you enjoyed this HUGE post - please post your 'coping stragegies' and experiences - I am sure they will be of help to all our youngsters. Sat Siri Akaal GurBar Akaal ! Waheguru ji ka Khalsa waheguru ji ki Fateh ! Ranjit Singh 'Freed'