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Sikhs should all unite and demand more and more memorials to be build in rememberance of 84. I remember in 2007 when SGPC took the good step of installing the picture of Sant Bhindrwanwalay, there was an uproar all over North India by Hindus and even some communistic and secularist minded Sikhs. I was in India at the time and was talking to a very secular minded Sikh about this issue. He condemned SGPC for installing a picture of sant Jee and said how it will cause problem between Hindus and Sikhs. I shot back at him saying if a national Air Port, schools, colleges, liabraries, streets can be named after Indira gandhi who caused the Sikh Ghalugara of 84 then why should Hindus object if Sikhs want to put a mere picture in a Sikh museusm created by money donated by Sikhs? if honouring Indira Gandhi does not cause Hindu Sikh tentions then why would a picture create tentions between the two communities. To this, that secular minded Sikh admited that Hindus were wrong for objecting. Recently Sikhs have united like no other time before to demand justice for 84 thanks in part to Bhai Rajoana case when Sikhs united all over the world. Congress and Indian media is working over time to control the damage to their image. Recently we can see how the Indian media has started a new wave of Anti Sikh hysteria, even in the west their paid journalists are trying to create Anti Sikh hysteria so as to put Sikhs on the defensive instead of admiting their own guilt in 84 when they killed Sikhs mercilessly.

read the Gallant Defender written by AR Darshi. Darshi was a HINDU judge. If Bhindrenwale really was a killer of hindus, then an educated, well connected Hindu wouldn't have risked his career to portray him as a hero in this book examining 1984. It's available online, do a google search.

I don't think you'll find an answer to this. I myself asked many Gursikhs, used to be really horrified by it all and wouldn't touch dairy products after finding out the reality of it all. But no Sikh could give me an answer lol. Some of them even said, "Bhai **** Singh drinks milk and he's a chardi kala Gursikh so you know" lol clearly people just don't get it. I went vegan for half a year but unfortunately I couldn't keep up with a balanced diet and, already being really skinny, I lost tooo much weight. People may drink soya milk etc but they don't cut out other dairy products like cheese, pizza, chocolate and even some breads. So we're all actively taking part in this cruelty. I only drink organic milk but I realise that by eating other dairy products, I'm part of the horrible industry too.

Shovels, brooms etc this was one big pendoo fight...

Wade Michael Page sits in hell laughing and thinking "I was such a fool, they do it to themselves anyways".

Dal Khalsa was created by Congress at the residence of Giani zail singh. Dal khalsa UK is a rogue group to divide sikhs.

The biggest problem with us is that we think others are like us too. Wake up Khalsa jee, others are NOT like us. We have a Pooran SatGuru who gave us character, who taught us to be just even in times of strife. Can the others look up their history and say the same about those they worship? Wake up, don't expect others to have your level of deen-imaan, your kind of integrity, your type of Khalsaaee kadar-keemat. We have our Gurdev Pita jee Sahib-E-Kamaal Sri Guru Gobind Singh Jee Maharaj, the one and only personality on this planet who did bhagti in bir rass. Anyone else qualifies? NO! Wake up, no one else has the sense of belonging the way we do, we belong only to our Gurdev Pita jee. Who do others belong to? Whose tokens of love do they carry the way we carry our kakaars? We are blessed with a saroop because we carry a responsibility. Does anyone else qualify? NO! Wake up! Stop trusting just about anyone because they are nice from time to time. Stop expecting others to be the way you are because you are a different breed since you are to abide by a mandatory norm. When Dasmesh Pita jee said that Khalsa is to stay niyaara, it also means that no one else is like the Khalsa. No one else has the kind of character that Khalsa has, no one else has deen-imaan, kadar-keemat the way Khalsa does, no one else has a satkaarjog saroop that Khalsa has. All these people around you are under NO obligation to be the best human beings, but you blessed Khalsas will have the sweet burden of that Guru-given duty on your head till you die. Wake up! Love all, trust a few, but have no expectations from anyone Khalsa jee, because Khalsa lives a life of commitment to our SatGuru Patshah jee, others tend to live a life they at times find aimless and can't define even themselves. Wake up! There is way we are expected to live in society, and that was given to us by our param pyaare SatGuru Patshah jee long before these man-made handwritten laws were created or implemented. I am not asking you to look down upon anyone, or to hate anyone, or to dislike anyone, or to degrade or put anyone down. I am only begging you to please be niyaare in every aspect of your lifestyle. And I am only rebuking myself to stand up and be who and what I am, NOT who and what the world wants to see me as. - Mehtab Singh

Just saw this movie "Ek tha Tiger" today ref. RAW Agent. Some points which I analysed - Shows RAW intelligence/cunning nature of govt. agents, including RAW agents. I know people might have seen James Bond and other agent movies, so nothing new. Compared to this, Sikh-Nation intelligence is virtually 0, I would say even negative. RAW agents spy in Gurudwaras/Jathebandis/even Sikh-media/even spying on these forums etc. in India/Canada/UK/USA etc. etc., I believe we all know this, but still our intelligence is 0. All our next moves are known to opponent, but we "SIKHS" never know what opponent is planning. Having seen this movie, I have no doubt Air India blast can only be done by RAW, and even Brar attack is also probably a RAW hand. Anyway, the RAW agent character "Tiger" shown in the movie was highly invinsible and appeared quite funny, I can't imagine a RAW agent to be so daring as shown in this movie, such as stopping the electric train with his coat standing on the train. Anyway, we all know the crap shown in Bollywood movies. Hello RAW agent reading this post :D.

Please read attachment I was sent. Msg_Dundha.pdf Vaheguru Jee Kaa Khalsa Vaheguru Jee Kee Fateh It has come to light that the controversial figure named Sarbjeet Singh Dundha is doing Katha Divans in the UK at this moment in time. It has come apparent that he may attend some Gurdwara Sahibs in the Birmingham/Coventry area for Katha Divans. Naujawan Gursikhs affiliated with Damdami Taksal and Akhand Kirtani Jatha are against this individual from doing Katha. Please any Nauwajan Veer/Bhen think of the Kaum and unite of this issue. All UK Youth are together on this and no Jathabandi is for this individual. Do not listen and fall for rumours/lies that one group is supporting this guy. The reason for this message is to show those that are trying to split the youth even further, have another thing coming. We will not break and argue, we are all agree that Sarbjeet Singh Dundha can’t do Seva here. It is not the right time for him do be doing Katha due to all the anomalous comments he has said and the Sangat he keeps of the Kala Afghana and Singh Sabha Canada groups. If Dunda jee changes his veechar and reforms himself then maybe next time he can do Seva here. It is that very strange that this banter has started, at the time of us remembering the Genocide that took place in November 1984 and the upcoming Bandhi Chor Divas which is fast approaching. We leave you with a quote from Sant Jarnail Singh jee Bhindranwala Unite under the Kesri Nishaan Sahib, stoutly support the Panth, and be attached to Siri Guru Granth Sahibs Throne and Guru's Darbar;

I think that if one wants to lower their spiritual jeevan they should join a Gurdwara committee. It is full of dirty politics, Nindya, Chugli, Eerkha and even fighting. Most of these committee members just have long beards but hardly any spiritual jeevan. Firstly I think their should be some type of rules in place for the conduct of committee members. They should be fully rehetvaan, have a certain amount of Bani memorized(alteast the Nitnem), wake up at Amritvela everyday without fail and they should come to the Gurdwara during Amritvela for Simran. Someone who keeps such a spiritual jeevan would not indulge in such fighting. We don't need politicians to run our Gurdwaras, we need rehetvaan and spiritual men/women in charge.

"Everybody was pendu fighting..... those billis were fast as lightning".

This is an insult to the bitches,cows, goats and buffaloes. We can't insult the rest of creation because of some dikshit.

I will never understand why people who don't know anything about religion stick their nose in religious affairs as if they are some kind of religious authority even though they are far from it. This is the same mistake Dr Udoke made. Dal Khalsa is just a political Sikh group. They should stop trying to meddle in Sikh religious affairs which is beyond their scope. Their political positions are usually always good, but the religious part is almost always anti Gurmat. Religiously, they have become pure Kala Afghanis.

Based on new initiative- Sikhsangat think tank- http://www.sikhsanga...gat-think-tank/ , I am opening up this thread to have constructive discussion on this topic- Revamp/tweak standard sikhi parchar to those who are new to sikhi..!! I personally been two camps in toronto when i first got into sikhi. They both have strength and weakness. Whilst, they have lot to discuss on sikh political activism, unfortunately they were out of depth when it comes to sikhi spirituality and they fail to provide basic framework to connect everyone- especially youths who are new to sikhi (mona/keshadhari alike). Here are some of the weakness in parchar in sikhi camp/gurdwara's these days: - Fail to connect to wider sikh youths because may be going too over board providing guilt trips/political activism/sipahi aspect of sikhi. - Fail to provide basic layout frame work for sikh foundation- Ikgonkar (Sargun and Nirgun intertwine relationship) instead focusing protestant version of God and focusing entirely on maryada instead of striking a right balance - Fail to provide youths who are new to sikhi, something they can relate to their own personal (beautiful sikhi perception of body/mind/soul/consciousness/creation/relation), most of youths have already heard concept of protestant version of God in western countries/ or if they happen to go to catholic high school. Overall problem with Sikhi parchar failing to highlight/promote sikh spirituality leading youths to explore elsewhere- radhaswamis/nirankaris/christianity/islam- http://www.sikhsanga..._10#entry541621 Solutions/more improvements. - Instead of going over board providing guilt trips, just provide beautiful concept of keeping hair in relation to nature, science, distinctive feature and our history of great predecessors shahids/mahapursh/saints and leave it that- i m not suggesting downplay it but at the same time don't let topic surrounding maryada takes precedence over everything, whole camp experience, and move on crucial topics which they can relate to such as mind, body, soul, consciousness, sargun and nirgun. http://www.sikhsanga...on-amritdharis/ - Start Sikhi theological/spiritual foundation with mool mantar (and for sake of unity and more bani- keep it from ikongkar to nanak hosi bhi sach), explain the deep theology behind it- sargun and nirgun intertwin relationship. http://www.sikhsanga..._10#entry544841 http://www.sikhsanga...irgun-nirankar/ - Explain concept of body, mind, soul, control of senses, which every youth can relate to. Lot of youths confuse soul with mind: http://www.sikhsanga...ns-of-the-mind/ - In five day camp, put three day emphasis on spirituality in mixture with rehit maryada and 2 days on political activism. I think looking at sikhi camp states- correct ratio should be (65% spirituality - 35% political activism). Pure Raw anything is not good nor is easy to digest for human. Mix it just like how patsah were mixed in khanda batta da amrit..!! :D What you guys think?

classic.

When would be khalsa raj,, and when would sant harnam singh return bhucho wale

People u am looking to sell all the books and material I have for cost prices if anyone is interested in anything contact me on my email, thank you, the email address is kam1825@hotmail.com

I like to take this chance to open up discussion on difference between krodh vs bir ras. I think lot of sikhs confuse krodh attribute of human with bir ras. Krodh is one of panj chor which sikh suppose to control or rise above from. Here is my take on it: Krodh- Sheer anger invoked by raig (attachment), dvaish( animosity), intent of using unjustified force with intent of doing further collateral damage where innocent lives are lost/hurt. Bir ras of Sipahi: Warrior spirit of self defense- stopping an individual to do further damage, fight against oppression but more importantly- bir ras is not on its own, its naturally born, nurtured and controlled by sant aspect of one's life- dya (compassion), sat(truthful), sabar( patience), santokh(contentment), sam/advait dristhi (non dual one vision impartial perception of humanity). Please share your input.

Gurfateh, My local Gurdwara are seeking to start up classes for Children’s self defence/martial arts and are looking for instructors who will act as role models first i.e. Gursikhs with the martial arts aspect following on. We believe having an amritdhari instructor will give the kids a role model to look up to and aspire to. The intention being that they will learn sikhi principles along with the self confidence not only to look after themselves and others but also the confidence in the sikhi saroop. We are looking for recommendations of such gursikhs in and around the Birmingham area, so Wolverhampton, Walsall etc are all within easy commute. I would appreciate your help and assistance. Bhul chuk marf.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ke Fateh I've been trying to look for that book that general brar wrote about Sant Jarnail Singh Ji (ebook version) all over the internet, but no luck. so I was wondering if anyone has a link for the ebook or has the book and could post an ebook online? Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ke Fateh

Well done analysis of the beginnings of the Sikh/Punjabi struggle under the Indian state. Taken From: http://sikhwithit.bl...discontent.html Seeds of Discontent Originally published in "Dedicated to the Sikh Struggle" Despite attempts to do so, the events before and after the 1984 Sikh genocide cannot be examined in isolation of their broader political context. Broken promises, the demand for greater Sikh sovereignty, covert intelligence operations, the state of emergency, and human rights abuses must all be accounted for in order to create an accurate reconstruction of the time period. The seeds of discontent in the Punjab region were sown decades before the explosion of violence in Punjab, in the streets of Delhi and other cities across India in the 1980s. The calls for communal sovereignty and provincial autonomy did not arise spontaneously. They were the manifestation of discontent with a post-independence reality unreflective of its roots. The imposition of emergency rule in the 1970s inflamed tensions and the crackdown in Punjab would lead to the creation of an untenable political circumstance. Broken Promises: The roots of discontent amongst the Sikh community, although plentiful and diverse, can be to a large extent traced back to pre-1947 commitments made by the Congress party. Two main points of displeasure amongst the Sikh community following India’s independence were that the Congress party had abandoned its pre-independence commitment to the reorganization of states based on linguistic homogeneity with regards to Punjab and the broader concept of provincial autonomy. The following excerpt helps to provide context into the position of the Congress party leadership with regards to provincial autonomy and linguistic homogeneity: “On 10 August 1928, the Nehru committee submitted its report on the future of the Constitution of India. Apart from reiterating the principles of provincial autonomy and reorganization of the states on the basis of linguistic homogeneity, the report also confirmed the reservation of seats in the Legislative Assemblies in the Provinces as well as at the Centre for Muslims of India in proportion to their population in the provinces. However, the report denied similar reservation to other religious minorities and went on to state categorically that there should be no reservation of seats for any community in the Punjab and Bengal. Following the publication of the Nehru report, Sikh leaders expressed anxiety over their future in India under a nationalist government which provided no statutory protection for them as a minority. To allay their fears the Congress Party organized its annual session of 1929 at Lahore and passed a resolution saying that on achieving independence no Constitution would be framed unless it was acceptable to Sikhs.” (Kumar: 120). The Congress report of 1928 is a pivotal document as it formed the basis of what the future state of India’s framework would consist of. It provided a blueprint from which those involved in the independence discussions could base their decisions with regards to accession and secession. As the Congress party moved further and further away from this declaration with regards to Punjab, the angst amongst India’s Sikh community would continue to grow. This is not to say that every Sikh in every corner of India was enraged, no community is so homogenous that it acts and thinks in perfect unison. However, the protests, political movements, and resistance prevalent amongst the Sikhs of Punjab in the decades following independence are telling. The population was not asking for the Central government to kneel, rather that the Congress party uphold its commitments. The excerpt discussed above is not unique in nature and Congress leaders would on multiple occasions re-affirm the party’s commitment to guaranteeing that no constitution would be passed if unacceptable to the Sikhs of India. In response to a question from Madhusudan Singh on what guarantees Gandhi could give with regards to the resolution passed by his party at Lahore in 1929, he responded “I ask you to accept my word and the resolution of the Congress that it will not betray a single individual much less a community. Let God be the witness of the bond that binds me and the Congress with you” (Kumar: 122). As he was further pressed on this issue “Gandhi said that the Sikhs would be justified in drawing their swords out of the scabbards as Guru Gobind Singh had asked them to, if it would recoil from its commitments” (Kumar:122). In 1950, when the Constitution Act of India was enacted (devoid of special protection for the Sikhs), representatives from the Akali Dal party declared in the constituent assembly “the Sikhs do not accept this Constitution: the Sikhs reject this Constitution Act” (Singh: 245). Yet, in direct opposition to their previous commitments, the Congress party would indeed pass a constitution not accepted by the Sikhs. Broken commitments such as the ones discussed above would help form the foundation of the Punjabi Suba movement, which rose to prominence post-1947. The Sikh community and its leadership would advocate for the greater autonomy and freedom that the Congress party had promised to it. The creation of a state of Punjab based on linguistic homogeny and the control of waterways (which were of particular importance given the agrarian nature of Punjab) were of particularly heated contestation. Rise of the Punjabi Suba movement Historically the Sikh community has viewed the Punjab region as its homeland due to its status as the birthplace of Sikhism and the fact that it is home to a majority of the Sikh community and many of the faith’s most revered sites; as such one cannot simply separate the reorganization of Punjab and Sikh discontent into two mutually exclusive entities. The Akali Dal and its leader Master Tara Singh would continue to advocate for a Punjabi speaking state (Lal: 55). The composition of this state would have been in line with the commitment to linguistic reorganization as per the Congress’ pre-independence doctrine. However, this commitment to linguistic reorganization was abandoned shortly after Indian independence upon the recommendations of the Linguistics Provinces Commission. In the eyes of the commission: “It (i.e. the formation of linguistic states) would unmistakingly retard the process of consolidation of our gains, dislocate our administrative economic and financial structure, let loose, while we are still in a formative states, forces of disruption and disintegration and seriously interfere with the progressive solution of our political and economic difficulties.” (Kumar: 177). In essence, the promise of linguistic reorganization in the case of Punjab had become a source of inconvenience for the Congress party and their new partitioned India. In the words of Nehru as he spoke to Master Tara Singh in 1954 who reminded him of the Congress’ commitments to the Sikhs, “the circumstances have now changed”. (Singh: 245) As the Akali Dal continued their campaign for a Punjabi speaking state, Hindu organizations had begun advocating that the community formally disown the Punjabi language in favour of Hindi (Kumar: 177). This act of collusion would further inflame the political unrest caused by the Congress’ unwillingness to abide by its 1928 resolution. As constitutional autonomy continued to elude the Sikh community, Sardar Kapur Singh would have this to say on September 5th, 1966 as he stood up to vote against the bill for the reorganization of the state of Punjab: “Madam Chairman, I have gone through this draft Bill most carefully and I have heard the Honourable Home Minister with the diligence and respect which his speeches and utterances always deserve. Madam Chairman, as it is, I have no option but to oppose this Bill. Like the curate’s egg, though it might be good in parts, it is a rotten egg. It might be edible, but only as a measure of courtesy, as it is devoid of nutritional qualities and since its putrefaction is far gone, it is really unfit for human consumption” (Singh: 239). The bill for the reorganization of the state of the Punjab would fail the test for the Akali Dal party as well. On July 20th 1966 Resolution 2 of the Working Committee of the Shiromani Akali Dal was passed: “SIKHS RESOLVE AND PROCLAIM their determination to resist, through all legitimate means, all such attempts to devalue and liquidate the Sikh people in a free India, and consequently, DEMAND that the following steps should be taken forthwith by the rulers of India to assure and enable the Sikhs to live as respectable and equal citizens of the Union of India, namely, FIRST the Sikh areas deliberately and intentionally cut off and not included in the new Punjab to be set up namely, the area of Gurdaspur District including Dalhousie, Ambala District including Chandigarh, Pinjore, Kalka, and Ambala Saddar, the entire Una Tehsil of Hoshiarpur District, the areas of Nalagarh, called Desh, the Tehsil of Sirsa, the sub-Tehsils of Tohana and Guhla, and Rattia Block, of contiguous portion of the Ganganagar District of Rajasthan must now be immediately included in the new proposed Punjab so as to bring all contiguous Sikh areas into an administrative unit, to be the Sikh Homeland, within the Union of India. And SECOND, such a new Punjab should be granted an autonomous constitutional status on the analogy of the status of Jammu and Kashmir as was envisaged in the Constitution Act of India in the year 1950” (Singh:1948). The resolution does not call for unique wide ranging powers, rather it points to the “autonomous constitutional status” of Jammu and Kashmir as encapsulated in the Constitution Act of India. As this set-up was achievable to the north of Punjab, why could it not be feasible for Punjab itself? The powers requested would have been relatively analogous to that which already existed for other states in India. The resolution was focused on creating a place for Sikhs in India, who had decades prior chose accession over secession. Additionally, this Sikh homeland was to be an administrative unit within the “Union of India”. The focus here was to create an autonomous Sikh land of freedom in the north of India, a notion Nehru had decades prior accepted. In July 1946 Nehru would be quoted as saying “The brave Sikhs of the Punjab are entitled to special consideration. I see nothing wrong in an area and a set-up in the North wherein the Sikhs can also experience the glow of freedom” (Singh: 242). Yet, when the time had come for these commitments to be put into action, they had been forgotten; as resistance to this autonomous state was evident even before Resolution 2 of the Akali Dal working committee and the 1966 statements of Sardar Kapur Singh. Jawaharlal Nehru would go so far as to “tell a correspondent of the Times of London that he would not concede a Punjabi speaking state even if he had to face a civil war” (Kumar: 182). This statement was made following the release of Master Tara Singh who had been jailed preemptively following his vow to fast until death in demand of a Punjabi Suba (state). In 1960, “newspapers were prohibited from publishing news regarding the Sikh agitation. Raising slogans for a Punjabi Suba were made illegal” (Kumar: 182). The repression of discontent and freedom of speech in response to the Punjabi Suba movement would become a reoccurring theme in the Central governments dealings with the Sikh community. As opposed to reaffirming their pre-independence assurances, the Indian government would instead meet peaceful assembly with repression, calls for justice with an iron fist, and freedom movements with oppression. An interesting line for the descendents of a movement whose chief figure head (Mahatma Gandhi) would be defined in the Indian history books by his approach of non violent protests, calls for universal justice, and slogans for a free and independent India. State of Emergency: When Indira Gandhi instituted a State of Emergency, all corners of the nation were covered by the cloud of undemocratic rule. This State of Emergency was born not out of a deep concern for the nation, but out of personal survival: “ The declaration of the state of emergency by Prime Minister Indira Gandhi on the night of June 25-26, 1975, to save herself from the aftereffects of Allahabad High Court Judgement unseating her for corrupt practices, as laid down by herself, shook the very foundations of the democratic spirit underlying the Constitution. Armed with the draconian powers including rigorous press censorship, it ushered an era of arbitrariness and arrogance for personal survival and family aggrandizement, with new upstart Sanjay Gandhi and his goons creating terror and wreaking havoc with the system” (Singh 2: 311). The Shiromani Akali Dal would be the only party to take up the cause of opposing Gandhi and her emergency rule. Figures from Amnesty International state that 140,000 people would be detained during emergency, 60,000 of them Sikh. Emergency may not have been declared against the Sikhs, but the resistance to it had a strong Sikh component (Singh 2: 311). As Sikh resistance to Emergency rule grew, in the words of Sangat Singh “Indira got into her head that it were only the Sikhs who constituted a threat to her imperious and dynastic rule, and decided to inflict blows from which they will take long, if at all, to recover” (Singh 2: 312). In 1976, using section 78 of the Punjab Reorganization act Indira Gandhi would allocate the hydel power and waters of the Punjab rivers to Rajhastan, Haryana, Delhi, and Punjab. The Gandhi government would now “award over 75 percent of waters to neighboring non-riparian states and create in them vested interest to the detriment of legal rights in Punjab” (Singh 2: 312). This diversion of water would have devastating effects on the Sikh peasantry, a segment of the population who formed the Akali Dal’s mainstay. Sikhs would also be targeted in the military ranks, as the Defence Ministry would for the first time issue recruitment quotas based on population. The institution of this move would curtail the intake to and composition of Sikh soldiers in the Indian army to just two percent, in line with their proportion of the Indian population as a whole. (Singh 2: 312). The treatment of Sikhs during the 1982 Asian games provides a piercing example of the degree to which Sikhs had been targeted during the emergency period. Haryana’s Chief Minister had instructed the police to cut off all Akali’s entering the state. The following is the account of prominent Indian journalist and author Kuldeep Nayar: “Since the police had no way to differentiated a Sikh who is a terrorist and one who is not, every Sikh travelling to Delhi was searched. Trains were stopped at wayside stations at midnight in cold December and the Sikh passengers were made to get down to appear before a police official on the platform. Buses were detained to get Sikh passengers down and at some places the rustic policemen said ‘All Sikhs should come down’. People travelling in cars were no exception. Many senior retired military officers were stopped and among them were Air Chief Minister Marshal Arjun Singh and Lt. General Jagjit Singh Arora; their disclosure of identity did no matter; luggage in every car was thoroughly searched. Maj. General Shabeg Singh, who later joined hands with Bhindranwale, had gone on record as saying that after the humiliation meted him in Haryana, he decided to join Bhindranwale. Even Swaran Singh (a cabinet colleague of J.L.Nehru who had served India well for many tenures as its Foreign Minister) was stopped and searched despite telling the police who he was. Congress(I) Sikh MPs were no spared and Amarjit Kaur Congress MP, was in tear when she narrated in the Central Hall of Parliament how she and her husband were treated by the Haryana police…. The Sikhs felt humiliated because the Hindus crossing into Delhi from Haryana were not touched, even for the sake of form. The government expressed no regrets and no statement came from any ruling party members that what had happened was reprehensible. Very few Hindus spoke against his. Newspapers also did not report any incident lest it should add to communal tension. The Sikhs felt the government was now against them as a community” (Kumar: 260). The relationship between the Sikh community and India’s governmental bodies had degraded considerably by the 1982 Asian games incident, and yet the worst backlash against the Sikh community was yet to come. As mentioned at the onset of this piece, the events before and after the 1984 Sikh genocide cannot be examined in isolation of their broader political context. The examples and chronology of events above are testaments to this. The untenable situation of the 1980s was not an overnight development. Rather, it had built up over decades and decades, slowly reaching the human rights atrocities of 1984. As the streets of Delhi were filled with burning Sikh corpses and dismembered youth, historical context disappeared from the political discourse. Sikhs were terrorists and a threat to India, no shades of grey existed. The decades of peaceful demonstration and political movements were forgotten, for there was no place for these trivial memories. The here and now was all that mattered, an enemy had been constructed and how its existence was constructed was not up for debate. As we delve into the atrocities of 1984, it is pivotal that we realize that this genocide was the apex of a devilish journey seeped with mistruth, mistrust, and misinformation. Sources Gill, Tarlochan S. (1989). History of the Sikhs. Toronto: Asia Publications. Grover, Verinder; ed. (1995). Master Tara Singh. Delhi: Deep & Deep publications. Kapur, Rajiv A. (1987). Sikh Separatism: The Politics of Faith. New Delhi: Vikas Publishing House. Kumar, Ram Narayan; Sieberer, Georg. (1991) The Sikh Struggle. Delhi: Chanakya Publications. Lal, Mohan. (1984). Disintegration of Punjab. Chandigarh: Sameer Prakashan. Singh, Kapur. (1979). Sachi Sakhi. Singh (2), Sangat. (1995). The Sikhs in History. New York: Sangat Singh.

yes tell us about thsese dates

Dass is grateful for all of the advice, and as you have put it, with kirpa, onwards and upwards from here. Veer Sun Singh, could you please post a few of these shabads?

No Dal Khalsa isnt a rogue group lol my assessment of it is its a Sikh nationalist political group and has more interest in azaadi for Sikhs than scholarly religious affairs topics appart from fighting RSS and other hindu extremist groups attempts to "hindunize" Sikhs. As johnny has said Dal Khalsa's scope, mission and remit is more political than religious so really shouldn't get involved in these scholarly religious sensitive issues. Having said that how pathetic it is to see taksali and other similar jatha type Sikhs who cant let other scholars with different points of views have their say without resorting to threats of violence, protests or intimidation. How the hell are we going to solve the controversies regarding dasam granth bani if people are not allowed to have their say? I see islamic sectarian fundamentalists having more tolerance and intellectual debates more than I do of our Sikh sects and jatha's. These debates will have to take place sooner or later and sgpc drawn up rehit maryada along with everything else will be examined in detail and questioned and people who dont like it without getting all emotional and neanderthal can either accept it or go behind bars as in any civilised society you have to be able to tolerate people questioning your beliefs and you being able to respond in a calm rational way.

Hahahaha I remember in New Zealand when reporter Paul Henry made fun of her. They told him that the minister in charge of commenwealth heila Dikshit.... and he's like "wait, wait, wait. What did you say? <banned word filter activated> <banned word filter activated>?" http://www.google.co...ZE4HMjkvf6GQS8g

How do you do! :DLOL, like one of them was gonna reply! But good points, they possibly read our site and make a list of what the Western Sikh youth thinks. Hmmmmm, I think Admins should start asking for credit card numbers before allowing anyone to post, and run a background check on all those who do post, and also keep all sections of this forum gupt. Only those who are all-clear can post/read. What do you guys think? That way we can filter out RAW agents, right? (Yeah, they're so stupid, right? :D )

Jet is the best. London-Delhi-Amritsar. Only a couple of hours waiting in Delhi usually. 46kg baggage allowance aswell. Try Southall Travel.

**IMPORTANT PLEASE SHARE *** AKAL THAKT DECISION ** DHUNDA** CLARIFICATION ON DHUNDA ISSUE. **FROM: United Sikh Youth Bodies UK** Over the past week, we have seen a lot of talk about Sarabjit Singh Dhunda. Unfortunately there has been a lot of very good people, with good intentions caught up in the middle. This guy is charismatic and his debates at face-value seem very convincing and heartfelt. But senior Gursikhs from all Jathebandhis etc can clearly see through him and know his true divisive intentions. We as a Quom have still not come to terms with unspeakable atrocities at the hands of the Government of India (GOI). Justice is a far dream, but a dream that can only be achieved through unity and mutual respect. A divided Quom is a helpless Quoum, Dhunda & Co. know this, and have been deliberately sent to create divisions in the UK. The GOI want large scale disruptions in Gurdwaras, they want Dastars being disrespected in our Gurdwaras, so they can then use the videos to show Khalistani Sikhs as extremists. This is their agenda. Understanding this, large scale protests have been called off by all youth groups, until there was clarity from Sri Akal Thakt Sahib. Today, Sri Akal Thakt Sahib have announced that Dhunda is to be banned from Gurdwara stages. Singh Sabha ,Southall have respected this and stopped his talks from today, a honourable decision. There are topics regarding Sri Dasam Bani etc that some Sikhs have mixed views on, hence we support Akal Thakt’s long-standing decision to ban these from discussion in public. Sarabjit Singh Dhunda, Inder Ghagga, Darshan Ragi have been invited on numerous occasions to discuss these issues in a diplomatic, sensible and constructive way with senior scholars behind closed doors. But they have never accepted this; instead they go out to divide the moderate Sikh in Gurdwaras or by making disrespectful videos. Again if any Sikh who wants to discuss the Banis of Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji, please contact Sewa.Support@hotmail.com, senior Gursikhs will welcome an in-depth discussion behind closed doors, in a respectful and constructive manner. United Sikh Youth Bodies UK Khalistan Zindabad

Finally, a Sikh leader with a backbone. http://www.sikhchic....?cat=26&id=3781 Lord INDARJIT SINGH To Teji Bindra New York, USA 25-10-12 Dear Tejinder ji, Sat Sri Akal Re: Sikh Heritage Arts Gala 2012 I am writing to inform you that I will not be attending the Sikh Arts and Film Festival. When Dr Narinder Singh Kapany informed me that Sikhs in New York wished to honour me for becoming the first turbaned Sikh in the British Parliament, I agreed. I was given to understand that it would be at a function of Sikh Heritage Awards. I now learn from the detailed Programme sent me that it is a Festival of Indian Films with dinner and dance in the presence of dignitaries from and representatives of the Indian government. This festive event coincides with the anniversary of the government planned systematic slaughter and rape of thousands of Sikhs throughout the length and breadth of India following the assassination of Indira Gandhi, commencing with Rajiv Gandhi's broadcast incitement of "khoon ka badla khoon" - "Exact blood for blood". ( An official in Africa recently received a lengthy jail term from the International Criminal Court for lesser incitement). Ever since 1984, I have campaigned tirelessly for those responsible for this genocide against Sikhs to be brought to justice through articles in the Sikh Messenger , the Journal of Amnesty International, articles in the Times, the Guardian and other British, French, American and Arabic journals and in radio and TV broadcasts. My effort and those of many others for the Indian government to respect civilised norms and bring those responsible to justice have simply fallen on deaf ears. In the circumstances, I hope you will understand why on the anniversary of this massacre, I cannot join you with your guests from the Indian government. My apologies for any inconvenience. Kind regards Dr. Indarjit Singh ( Lord Singh of Wimbledon)

So, is milk from stores right for Sikhs to drink? i've read that all the male calves are shot dead. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2152402/Viewers-outrage-harrowing-scenes-day-old-calves-shot.html video of calves being shot on a dairy farm. or they are raised for meat, kept in small boxes. when the dairy cows get old they are culled. also i've read that the milk has antibiotics, pus and other unsafe things in it. so is the milk ethical/right for a Sikh to drink? which milk in the U.K isn't produced with the death of animals?

The screen on the back features the Khanda throughout the song,which talks about world peace. :D

I think thats a good idea but might fall foul of indian libel and defamation laws if there are any. This is one problem with naming alleged killers without some proof or evidence also there is a media campaign against amitab bachan for inciting anti-sikh mobs in 1984 but the evidence that is need to show that he did that is no where to be found till date so before innocent big personality people are maligned and makes Sikh look silly reactionaries and liars. I think its wise to get solid proof they did what they did such as witness testimonies or police cases,etc before proceeding with running adverts like that.

Sikhs have two gurus, Guru Granth and guru panth. Read basics of sikh rehat maryada before indulging in useless exercise here. Guru Granth guides us spiritually and Guru Panth in khalsa panth roop guides us in wordly matters.You become khalsa by believing Dasam granth sahib.

On Sikh separatism, Harper in India defends freedom of expression STEVEN CHASE BANGALORE, INDIA — The Globe and Mail Published Thursday, Nov. 08 2012, 8:41 AM EST Last updated Thursday, Nov. 08 2012, 9:10 AM EST Stephen Harper is pushing back at suggestions that Ottawa needs to do more about Sikh separatist activity in Canada, saying his government already keeps a sharp lookout for terrorist threats and that merely advocating for a Khalistan homeland in the Punjab is not a crime. He said violence and terrorism can't be confused with the right of Canadians to hold and promote their political views. "It may be a political position that both the government of Canada and the government of India disagree with," the Prime Minister said during a visit to the southern Indian city of Bangalore Thursday. But "we can't interfere with the right of political freedom of expression." The Prime Minister found himself pressed by the Indian government minister during his six-day trade visit to the south Asian country on what New Delhi calls a revival of "anti-India" voices in Canada. That's code for Sikh extremists who want to carve a separate homeland out of India. Speaking near the end of his India visit, Mr. Harper first made it clear that Canada unequivocally backs a united India. "The government of Canada, and I believe the vast majority of Canadian people, including the vast majority of Indo-Canadians have no desire to see the revival of old hostilities in this great country," the Prime Minister told reporters in the southern city of Bangalore, where he announced Ottawa would open a new consulate. Mr. Harper had been asked what he was doing to tackle Sikh extremism in Canada. He replied that the Canadian government closely watched "extremist developments – those who may embrace violence or threats of violence or terrorism." But he said his government does not consider it a crime to argue or promote a Sikh homeland. "It may be a political position that both the government of Canada and he government of India disagree with," he said. But "we can't interfere with the right of political freedom of expression." Mr. Harper said he believes other political parties in Canada agree with him and declared that he won't be moved on this matter. "The government of Canada's policy positions on these matters are extremely well known," he told journalists. "I believe they are shared across the political spectrum –and they're not going to change. Mr. Harper has found himself walking a fine line during his India visit this week, fielding pressure from New Delhi to crack down on Sikh separatists in Canada but then journeying to one of this religion's most sacred spots to show Punjabi voters he's not tarring them as extremist. On Wednesday, Mr. Harper journeyed by plane and helicopter to the Sikh faith's second holiest city in northern India Wednesday. About half of Indian immigrants to Canada trace their roots to the Punjab region, Mr. Harper's latest stop on a six-day tour of India. It's not a place he can afford to skip given the sizeable role that Indo-Canadian voters played in helping the Conservatives win Greater Toronto Area seats. After landing in the Punjab capital of Chandigarh Wednesday, the Prime Minister flew by helicopter to Anandpur Sahib, a city revered by Sikh adherents, where he visited the Khalsa Heritage Memorial Complex. The recently-opened museum, designed by Israeli-Canadian architect Moshe Safdie traces the history of the Sikh religion. It was just Tuesday that India's junior foreign minister used a meeting with Mr. Harper to voice her country's continued anxiety about what it considers resurgent support in Canada for a separatist Sikh state – Khalistan – in the Punjab region. "Prime Minister, there was another area of great concern for us, which was the revival of anti-India rhetoric in Canada," Preneet Kaur, Minister of State of External Affairs, told Mr. Harper during his stop in New Delhi. "We have after very hard times got a good situation of peace and progress back in Punjab and in India and we would like that to continue – so it does concern us," Ms. Kaur said. In recent years former Liberal cabinet minister Ujjal Dosanjh, a Sikh, has warned more than two years ago that he believed Sikh extremism was on the rise in Canada. "It's more entrenched, it's more sophisticated and sometimes it's double-faced," he told Agence France-Presse in a 2010 interview. In 2010 Mr. Dosanjh and another Sikh politician were publicly advised by the organizer of a Sikh parade in British Columbia that their safety could not be guaranteed if they chose to attend. Mr. Dosanjh, an outspoken moderate, had previously complained about a parade float that featured a picture of the alleged mastermind of the Air India Flight 182 bombing.

welly welly well

I always wondered about the 1984 bit. Does he state why invaders attacked India so many times in spite of Shastar Vidya?

wjkk wjkf, veerji taran0, this is amazing work that you are doing. I did not know Nidar taught in somerset rd gurdwara. The next thing is to get him banned from leicester and wolverhampton gurdwara's. I dont have a problem with him or any one who wants to learn from him, but his parchar is totally WRONG! He will always have his followers, but he has corrupted many many people. Get him out of Wolverhampton and Leicester! Pat O'Malley, Maul Mornie and Krishna Godhania all need to be informed, this guy is a wolf in sheeps clothing a fraudster! wjkk wjkf

Perhaps because he has too many scandals in the past? I'd bet thats why.

Here is a quick photoshop sketch of Bhai SURINDER Singh Sodhi, saw some old photos and thought would be nice to do something modern with these images to engage young sikhs into finding out who these people are..... sorry Bhai Surinder singh sodhi - bit dyslexic so words come out with diferent letters soemtimes - apoligies Taran

632 YouTube views since Monday, 18 YouTube likes but only 5 donors...not surprised why advancement has been slow over the last 28 years..

Jaap Sahib and Akaal Ustat are beautiful! It's so inspiring and touching with the way the chands flow together. I've listened to Akaal Ustat and try to read Jaap Sahib when I can. Am hoping to listen to the Katha of Giani Thakur Singh Jee about Jaap Sahib

In no particular order... Back To The Future The Rocky Horror Picture Show Aliens Star Wars Toy Story Man, it's hard just selecting 5 only but I KNOW that Back To The Future is going to be in any movie list. Such an awesome film!!!!

WaheGuru Jee Ka Khalsa, WaheGuru Jee Ke Fateh! Guru Roop Pyare Saadh Sangat Ji we have organised a WaheGuru Simran Jaap from 14:00-18:00pm to Remember the Shaheeds of November 1984. Followed by Kirtan\Katha @ Gurdwara Mata Sahib Kaur Sikh Academy on Saturday 10th November 2012. 8 Oaks Lane Newbury Park Ilford Essex IG2 7PL.Please see the attached poster for timings and further details. For further Information please call 07508 821776. Please circulate amongst your friends and family; let’s get the word around and Sangat down. All Sangat are requested to attend. We look forward to seeing you All! Please Grace us with your Darshan. :waheguru: Pull Chuk Maaf Karni. Sewa Team WaheGuru Jee Ka Khalsa, WaheGuru Jee Ke Fateh!

Brilliant! One has to be quite self-contained in order to be able to dismiss such honours. Although I still have some questions. How did the website linked in the original post get the letter? Wouldn't it have been a private correspondence? Lord Singh or the addressee, giving a copy of the letter to the media, sounds a bit unlikely.

There are many disadvantages (limiting factors) if people infer that sackhand is a place where one goes to with identity intact then the (jeev or sukhsham sareer) will be limited in size unless they totally occupy everything and others there would be consumed/crowded by each other, limited power etc they are bound by location and are NOT omnipresent (as it is made out to be the earth is not sachkand but a separate khand). 'They' are not limitless this implies a disadvantage compared to what I understand and what gurmat believes which is that sackhand is everything no limits - omnipotent and omnipresent - Only God is and NO OTHER. Only truth (sackhand) people saying that sachkand is some sort of place do not know the infinite potential of gurmat naam. For (God) sachkand (OBJECTIVE TRUTH) to be a place (which it is not) it must be acknowledged by an individual (I) e.g. I am seeing that floating gurdwara in sachkand. There has to be duality between the perceiver and the object.' Gurbani is against dual consciousness please do a search on ‘durmat’. Essentially in any place where 'one’s' attentive consciousness is still stuck in form 'name and shape' is an illusion (maya). How will one tell the difference between themselves and God? Also the false notion of identity is kept of the person in sachkand then surely they still would have a mind and we are all know a mind is a limited instrument in itself I.E you can only have one thought at one time and have a limited capacity of knowledge. Also with any name and form it is bound by time, which we all know waheguru cannot be (akaal moorat) because if any action that occurs in sachkand (place) will occur in apperceived time i.e there would be a memory of past, present actions because if there were no actions in that place then sackhand would have no action, no one speaking etc. This identity is only a burden and a disadvantage. Also the fear of losing consciousness is downfall amongst seekers – they don’t want identity to be gone and want to remain eternally to experience the ‘bliss’. But this is inaccurate and involves blind faith on a false notion of consciousness being permanent. Scientifically or with veechar one needs to look into how the consciousness arouse. For consciousness to be permanent it has to be eternal and remain 24/7 throughout every moment/second. We know this can be proved wrong because it does not remain as in swoon/ unconscious/ deep sleep or in subconscious there is NO consciousness and the world is NOT. So then we can argue that if consciousness itself is temporary and the same consciousness (person) goes to sachkand then how can we have a full experience of sackhand when our own identity is our downfall for ever lasting experience. Beyond this who remains to enjoy the anand.... Like in deep sleep there is no consciousness and some people are trying to make there consciousness permanent thinking that it is eternal when in deep sleep and even subconsciously it is not. Letting the unconscious and subconscious (consciousness is a slave to the subconscious) take over means a death an annilation of experience. Really we are always dead it is the conscious part of the brain (reaction between neurotransmitters), which only comes temporarily that gives the inference of individuality and doership - that I exist and I WILL GO SACKHAND. It's all utter rubbish there is no one to go sachkand as there is only sachkand. People try to make the I (consciousness) eternal so 'they' can experience the anand and go sachkand. When in reality 'they' are an illusion – and the illusion is trying to escape the illusion – what a paradox! Basically no one wants to die but only dying is eternal!!! Another factor is that the mind is not permanent and it is made from experiences that one gets during their lifetime and something that is not eternal cannot have a permanent identity here after – to prove this point a blind person from birth has no visual thoughts throughout their life he/she just apperceives darkness. While a deaf person from birth can see form and name but has never heard a sound. So this shows that one’s identity are made from this lifetimes experiences. So the mind/memory/ ego are learnt traits that were picked up from the surroundings by the five senses. While the truth (Sachkand) exists prior to the learning period. So since the mind (where identity is made) is temporary it cannot ‘go’ to sachkand. Furthermore some people proclaim that the suksham sareer (mental/astral body) is what is permanent and the sukhsham sareer is the identity of a person with kesh (hair) and this identity is taken to sackhand but this sounds rather presumptuous as Gurbani mentions reincarnation and then was the same sukhsham sareer in a monkey or an ant? Also say one person obtains the human body and but does not realise the Lord and then says he is born again as another human body, which sukhsham sareer has he got and which will enter sachkand? If the sukhsham sareer enters sachkand it must be changeless and permanent and it just doesn’t make sense if the above theory is believed. That would make one particular astral/human identity as a truth, which I believe is subject to guess work, fantasy and opens a doorway to a myriad of questions that sprout from a false believe. Also since God/sachkand resides in ALL even in an agyani (ignorant devoid of naam/Ignorant of God being their true mool) then when kirpa is done the same changeless, permanent avasta must have already been present in the ignorant but missed or ignored, which the concept of non-identity supports while if the perception changed into another realm/place (mistaken as sachkand) then this is a change in ‘reality’, which cannot be correct as God is aadh sach, jugaad sach etc he is always true and ones underlying root prior to perception, learning, inference, apperception and even consciousness must have been true – while sackhand being a place and one retaining identity does not support hence this theory is subject to error. Carrying on with a false pretence of identity remaining then one would further make an assumption that Guru and God are separate. Some people to support this thinking say they are not separate but Guru ji is inside of waheguru and his identity is but is not noticeable to the naked eye. This statement is laughable for any identity to remain the perceiver must have a permanent consciousness and we have already discussed above that this is not possible. Really Guru/Satguru is another word for God (a synonym not a similarity). Some further state that when Waheguru created creation, before it He created Satguru - Waheguru appointed/created Satguru before creating the entire creation. This is false because then there is a notion of two (duality). Mistake is being made between waheguru’s nirgun and sargun aspect making them independently separate – when they are really one and the same and are dependent on each other. Hopefully this write-up has been helpful to prove that identity of one is not and since there is no identity then God/sachkand cannot be place that has independent people in it. However if one still wants it to be a place or wants to believe in permanent identity of individual then carry on doing so as you’ll be seriously disappointed. All in all having an identity is only a limitation and this would make sachkand limited in experience when in reality Gurmat sidhant is much greater than this make belief (manmat) view of sackhand.

Have a look at Baba Ramdev Ji's post on events of last 24 hours taken from his facebook... http://www.facebook.com/swami.ramdev?sk=wall "The Death of Democracy and Human Rights in India Midnight June 4, 2011, the capital of India, Delhi, witnessed the barbaric actions of the government exerted upon hundreds of thousands of peaceful Satyagrahis sleeping in the Ram Lila grounds. The brutality of the police towards innocent resting people, including children and women, revisited the atrocities committed by British rulers at Jallianwala Bagh." June 4 1984 / June 4 2011...? http://ibnlive.in.com/news/govt-threatened-me-baba-ramdev/156879-3.html

If its not allowed according to Rehat and as its not a good decision anyways WHY DO GURDWARAS ALLOW THE ANAND KARAJ TO TAKE PLACE IN SUCH WEDDINGS? :wub: Gurdwara Commetees, Mera sir kha liya