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LOL, yeah I am sure its better to find a new Sikh boyfriend than becoming a good/better Muslim, way to go! :D

Is this other friend of yours a devout Sikh or just another Bollywood types who likes to go out on dates and fool around? In your case, if you would be becoming a Sikh for your guy, obviously your commitment to the faith would always be a matter of concern, its just too obvious. I am born to parents who are from a Punjabi Brahmin Hindu background, and became a Sikh 9 years ago out of conviction (not for a girl). Its not that all Sikhs I met afterwards were shining angels who accepted me with open arms. There are always those who, although themselves the worst example of a Sikh, would like to taunt and somehow remind you where you came from (I was once mocked and told to get a Gutka Sahib printed in Sanskrit just because of my background), because they themselves are ashamed of the way they look. Some do it because they are so full of venom that they can't trust their own wife, forget about trusting a non-Sikh who embraced Sikhi, LOL! But doesn't that happen in all cultures? You will find hateful intolerant people everywhere. Back in the days, those who embraced Islam were still kept on a lower social tier. There is nothing of that sort in Sikhi, I can tell you that from experience. Agreed that there will always be some friction within a community at some point, but isn't that basic human nature? Moreover, caste is a cancer that has plagued most of the Punjabi Sikh community, no doubt. But Sikhi, or Sikhism as you say, is totally against caste. You should read more Sikh history as it is itself an evidence to it. Do not let this bad experience with this dirt bag make you hate all Sikhs. You don't seem to be the hating type so far. In fact, if you really want to slap him hard, so hard that it shakes the roots of his existence, then I think you should try your best and be the best Muslim he could ever come across. And then one day, you won't need to tell him anything. He will realize what a sore tumor he is and what a gem you turned out to be once you got rid of him. Stay in Chardi Kala (always rising spirits)

That is your opinion veeray, and I respect it even though I may not agree with it

Show me where Gurbani says its ok to court someone if you are not indulging in a physical relationship.

This is a Sikh forum, and Sikhi does NOT encourage pre-marital relationships. So by that logic, giving someone an advice to fetch a boyfriend/girlfriend is wrong. We don't ask alcoholics to hike up their consumption of alcohol, we find ways how to keep them away from it. Just because someone thinks having a bf/gf makes them happy, doesn't mean it really does, and neither does religious extremism. If someone, Sikh or non-Sikh, wants to find out what is real happiness, then without sounding like a religious extremist, I would suggest them to read, understand, contemplate and implement Gurbani in their life.

I reckon people in most religions who convert are treated as outsiders even with muslims or christians, I know of muslims who talk about this happening. Even muslims have the same caste issues or racial issues going on when it comes to marriage, we aren't the only victims of the caste issue, the caste system effects all of the south asian continent which is made up of all world religions. Racism and tribalism do exist outside of south asia as well, but our social ills do seem worse to us since they are our own. By the time you become a grandmother sikh will you only be considered an insider and that would be by your own (it's sad that the family couldn't at least accept you as their daughter in law and the mother to their grandchildren instead). It is what it is, and it doesn't just happen in Sikhism. One reason I can see even with conversion you might be considered an outsider is because of how you left a faith, some fear you might be a spiritual shopper and might leave that one, or you might not be sincere in the conversion, or that in the asian marriage thing where two families actually marry your family won't be involved or entirely excluded, if you would have had to elope run away from home things could have gone bitter. Maybe his parents told him to lie so that they wouldn't have to confront your parents about their son making you run away with him. It doesn't make sense in a cultural perspective to those who haven't yet become coconuts and absorbed some negative traits of western liberal culture yet, for that reason alone you sound like you are too good for him. As for that video above I posted the lady says Love and virginity are separate things if giving your virginity was love, that would mean love is finite and ends, where as love is truly something that overlooks your past and is something you keep giving and is infinite. I've known a few hindu mates who were told likewise to have fun and keep protection and make the most of life by their fathers. As for how much fun, it all comes down to what fun truly was if companionship was fun then maybe he could have committed from 2 years to his whole life. The sleazy crowd don't always open up to the religious or cultural reserved valued crowd, but there are people who transition from that phase as well. You might not get those 2 years back but it's better then 20 years people we have a 50% divorce rate in the UK amongst asians both sikhs and muslims have half, alot of it is fraudulent but it exists nonetheless whereas the national average is 60% divorce rate, perhaps due to the liberty that exists for people to exit marriages they don't want to be in. Maybe it was all an excuse for other things like growing apart or maybe you were too clingy not giving him his personal space, or maybe he is now infatuated with another girl, maybe he lacked confidence earlier with girls now he is fine, or maybe he has discovered that he likes men instead of women, maybe he disliked how you actually looked going past all the superficial (maybe he saw in you what was actually in him), maybe he has problems with the intimacy factor, maybe he had low self esteem and seeked someone with low self esteem he didn't want to settle with but learn from and moved on. You seem to be a pleasant person people take likings to in the above and people are asking you to join fully so that's fine. I'm sure you must have someone out of your sikh friends you can entrust to all of this. This whole thing could have even been turned around a girl these days can use a guy aswell be with him for 2 years go to his house and she leaves him. As for him telling you he loves you, wants children with you, thought up names of the children, I think it sounds alot like stuff you see in the movies, maybe that was his flirting line thought you might be drawn closer to him for he truly wanted which was just your body for him to use, maybe he was unsure earlier and changed from all of that. I've known a person who used that and seen it backfire on them because the girl had a broader definition of love and felt it takes more time to develop, something which I agree with. Love amongst partners takes along time to develop, to love is to care about the other person and to trust them. Maybe he wanted to take revenge for the bad historical relations between sikhs and muslims due to the mughal empire or the partition violence, but all of that just lowers this guy to nothing where his own brethren sikhs are disowning him on this site. Whatever it was, it might hurt it's okay you want to stay anonymous, don't worry about being accused of being fake sadly when you have too many boys crying wolf people are going to be suspicion when someone does cry wolf, there are fakes on this page too. I don't agree with the previous guys opinion over becoming a better muslim, going through a breakup phase can make a person do crazy stuff and become a fanatic, I think you need time to be a better human being, get a bowl of ice cream, watch a few good comedy movies (minus romance since it will remind you of the past), get a new boy friend, maybe find a better sikh boyfriend if interfaith dating is your thing (out of all of this you learn, grow, change and move forward to become the better you). People are always going to be judgemental in life, you just got to be content with yourself and happy with who you are, there is only one person like you in the world, you are unique. You gave him your ultimatum and got your answer it's hard to move past that, but move past that you must for your own sake. You shouldn't punish yourself mentally and make yourself a martyr in your own mind for this guys different views, I know you deserve better.

I already pointed his mistake out to him in my post before you did but he continued to refer to Guru Hargobind Sahib as Guru Hargobind Singh! He obviously has the time to ask read the Quran, ask Muslims it's meaning but can't be bothered to refer to the Guru by his correct name! He obviously did not have the time to read the above, probably too busy digesting the BS given to him by his Muslim mates. On the point of the Guru KI Maseet, now if the Sikhs of 18th century were aware of what the Guru had done for the Muslims, then why was the Mosque in Shahbad converted into a Gurdwara in the 1780s? It could be to so with him wanting publicity for his group. By doing what he did he made headlines in newspapers across India. What is the maryada for removing the Guru Granth Sahib from where it has had parkash and sukhasan for the last 60 years and then turn that building over to the Muslims? Is there any precedent for that? No wonder the Muslims of Lahore have been enboldened to do mischief around the Shahidganj Gurdwara. His removal of the Guru Granth Sahib is certainly not something that the Sikhs of old would have done but then these are new age Nihangs, so PC they would make people like the UAF and western liberals cringe at the way they submit to the Muslim demands! That's just pure speculation on your part. The only 'extremist' Muslim preacher at that time who was against the Sikh state was Syed Ahmed who operated in the tribal areas and Peshawar region of the Sikh state. But the azan was banned across the Sikh state. So either there were 'extremist' preachers in every mosque in Punjab or you're just speculating in order to defend your false statement, The fact that gujju haram.zadas were involved just shows how bad the situation has got. While people like you are poring over the Quran, the groomers are so confident that they can get way with their evil acts that they involve people of other communities in their acts not fearing that they would have no loyalty to them and would have no qualms in giving them up to the police. Said the Turkey on seeing the farmer and his wife enter the pen on Xmas morning brandishing a knife!

The problem is you are only following a watered down, modern friendly version of buddism. If you want to follow real buddism or any of these indian school of thoughts then why not do it properly? Presented further below in this post is the danger of the advait mindset which partially exists in buddism. Read Buddha's and his disciples' old literuture (translated into english of course, unless you can read tibetan), for a real view of buddism. Same applies to other schools of thoughts. Forget reading the untrue western watered down books on your belief system. Hear is a small description on a particular part of the text "Mahamaya Tantra": Moving into the third chapter, the tantra introduces a sequence of verses outlining the rites associated with the ingestion of sacramental substances (samayadravya). The yogī is instructed to gather the five illicit meats (elephant, horse, cow, dog, and human), roll them individually into pellets, and store them for seven days. Next they are mixed together and stored in the cavity of a rotting jackal for an additional seven days. Finally they are taken out and consumed, resulting in an experience of “the great fruitions” (mahāphalāni, v. 3.6), which Ratnākaraśānti identifies as “the state of wisdom.”19 Though the five illicit meats are common enough in tantric literature, the especially polluting addition of a jackal corpse appears to be a unique contribution of the Mahāmāyātantra. We can understand this distinctly unpalatable process as intended to collapse the binaries of pure and impure, precipitating a more complete rejection of dualistic concepts and, as verse 3.1 states, leading to “omniscience.” I couldn't post other parts as children visit sikhsangat.com. Then they use visulation techniques of imagining Mahamaya (pure sargun pooja) to so called realise ultimate reality (false sense of realising nirgun vaheguru). See this dangerous "mentality" of advait. This is one raw old school jugti to get rid of a dual aspect concerning purity/impurity. Others here may want to follow some other nicely touched up jugti which seems like it's ok but as guru sahib sikhs let us leave our faith in gurbani alone and just jap naam with prem and sharda. There are many shocking unsikhi like things which come up while reading the raw source translations of other belief systems. Also try reading arths throughout Guru Granth Sahib ji and you will be shocked at the criticism of other false belief systems and rituals. Just read common and random shabads you will see guru sahib is telling us something completly different as to what is being preached here nowadays. I'm afraid without purely following gurbani which leads to gurparsad, one can never realise the One Vaheguru. Please leave out this advait business...

Sikh body blames former DGP of conversion AMRITSAR : All India Sikh Students Federation (AISSF), Peer Mohammad faction, has submitted a memorandum with Jathedar of Akal Takht Giani Gurbachan Singh seeking his intervention into the incident of alleged conversion of Sikhs into Islam by former DGP Mohammad Izhar Alam Khan. AISSF president Karnail Singh Peermohammad blamed on former Punjab top cop that he was allegedly converting poor Sikh children into Islam. He informed that a delegation comprising of senior Sikh scholars handed over a memorandum to Jathedar along with a 14 page petition signed by 565 Sikhs from US. The AISSF president alleged that Alam had so far contributed Rs 99000 each for the construction of more than 480 mosques besides he had installed Imam's of these mosques of his choice. "He had constituted 21 member committee of each mosque with majority of convert Sikhs as its members" said he. When contacted Alam said "My only comment is no comment" adding that earlier also a lot of people and organizations had leveled allegations against him . Peer Mohammad alleged that Alam as well as other senior Muslim police officer of Punjab had settled Muslim colonies in various parts of Punjab especially in Malwa where now mosques were being erected. He further alleged that many Sikhs who were earlier named Gurmial Singh, Gurtej Singh were now known as Gurmail Khan and Gurtej Khan after conversion. The Federation has demanded intervention of Akal Takht to hold an inqury into the incident and also urge state government to conduct a probe and prevent such a malpractice. Jathedar of Akal Takht Giani Gurbachan Singh said it was a serious issue . He said he would ask Dharam Parchar Committee of Shiromani Gurdwara Parbandhak Committee to conduct an inquiry into the allegations.. Source: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/chandigarh/Sikh-body-blames-former-DGP-of-conversion/articleshow/21147543.cms ************ Since the Badal group has taken control of SGPC. the BJP, RSS (and the central agencies) have accelerated their drive to destroy Sikhism; the deras have sprung in every village, the Christian missionaries in sikhi saroop have increased their activities to convert Sikhs to Christianity; anti Sikh cults like sach sauda, Bhaniyara or are flourishing supported by the government and allowed free hand in anti Sikh activities; and people like Izhar Alam who are converting Sikhs to Islam to increase their political base, are promoted as Akali leaders. ... ..... what can one say about Badals and their brand of Akalis

You agree that an oath before Maharaj cannot be broken, so how can you say Longowal was following Gurmat? Gurmat means the person is following the teachings of the Guru and stands by the oath. Longowal walked out with his hands up and did not even fight to protect the Sanctity of Sri Akal Takht and Sri Harmandir Sahib. He sat in a room and waited till the firing stopped to come out as a coward. You call Nihang Singhs cowards and call Longowal a hero! This shows your bias. Nihang Singhs fought right beside Sant ji and atleast Santa Singh wanted to take out the Nirankaris after they killed 13 Sikhs. Sant ji had a different way to handle it than Santa Singh and the latter took an offence to it. Nevertheless Nihang Singhs still stood beside Sant ji and fought to protect Sri Akal Takht Sahib. In Sikhi their is no politics without spirituality. Anandpur Sahib Resolution started because Satguru has blessed everyone with equal rights. Miri and Piri cannot be separated and are not separated. Before starting anything involving Miri Satguru did Ardas and took an Hukamnama. Which clearly shows Sikh politics and spirituality are tied into each other. Lastly Sikh politics cannot go against the spiritual teachings of Satguru.

Sikhs must not allow this to pass. The delegation is worried because the agenda has been found out now they are trying to hide it. Jathadar should carry out full investigation.

You asked a question and answered it yourself. Thanks. And who told you its hard for converts to find a rishta? Are you a convert? As your elder veer I suggest you to wait and find out once your time comes :D

Show me where it doesn't say that? If you are going to give quotes on kaam please understand that's talking about lust, if you are going to give dasam bani where guru tegh bahadur says don't even go to a woman's bed in your dreams, you do realise courtship is not sex again. There is a difference between love, truly caring for someone and lust where you greed for their flesh in an animalistic fashion. But maybe you are right, Diya should first convert to sikhism read gurbani and get a good rishta, even though converts don't have it easy finding a rishta especially those who are going to be labelled as used goods. But maybe some glimmer of miracle will shine a true sikh will accept her.

Mehtab having a girlfriend or boyfriend doesn't automatically equal sex phornication out of wedlock is a kurheit, this might surprise you but you can court someone without actually getting in their pants. Having a cup of coffee regularly to get to know someone you consider life partner material isn't adultery. Infact what modern arranged marriage has become courtship of the old days. There is a difference between encouraging someone to get married when they are at that stage of life and need to take the first few steps to and between becoming promiscuous. Gurbani itself says Page 788, Line 11 ਧਨ ਪਿਰੁ ਏਹਿ ਨ ਆਖੀਅਨਿ ਬਹਨਿ ਇਕਠੇ ਹੋਇ ॥ धन पिरु एहि न आखीअनि बहनि इकठे होइ ॥ Ḏẖan pir ehi na ākẖī▫an bahan ikṯẖe ho▫e. They are not said to be husband and wife, who merely sit together. Guru Amar Das There are alot of decent people who meet their ideal partner who are good human beings through courtship. Sikhi doesn't encourage forced marriages either where you tie the knot between people who don't know each other or want to be with each other. The comparison between alcohol and dating is out of context mate taking poison and having companionship of someone you want to marry is something totally different. But mehtab perhaps you're right Diya should read gurbani go to gurdwara and get an arranged marriage to a good sikh family.

Thanks to all that played, or even looked at this. I was discussing this issue with another committee member who does a lot of sewa in the gurdwara. about how gurdwara committees have got such a bad name, how they do not inspire younger Sikhs to join committees etc. But although we criticize committees, i personally feel that the youth are not able to handle being in the committee, because for some it is a thankless task, and a continous head ache. But it can (and eventually will) change, if more youths, especially educated ones were to join committees in numbers and experience running a gurdwara( it is no easy task believe me). Numbers is the main thing, 1 or 2 youths cannot make a change by themsleves, as committees work mainly on democracy. Y You cant really have any faith in the weaker members of the committee because although they may perform their sewa to a good standard, they are reluctant to tackle any issues/members who are wrong, for the sake of harmony. Nobody like to fight in the gurdwara. But im just thinking about the potential of parchar in gurdwaras and how it would make a difference to the younger generation, if more youths were to get involved. But to do this, youths have got to sort themsleves out. I am sick and tired of hearing about committees did this and they stopped that etc from young people. The only thing stopping them joining the committee is their cowardice, or feeling that the time they have is for themselves personally and not the panth. as much as i despise the elders and their arrested development in sikhi and our community, i am beginning to despise the attitude of younger sikhs who are content to neglect their duties for the panth, and instead of joiing the committees and changing things, prefering to goto smagams on the other side of the country, stay at home on a sunday, or get some overtime in, etc. There was a time when we could rightfully claim that the elders were holding our community back, but now we have to look at how the attitudes of youngsters are holding our community back as well.

If it's her thing otherwise find a muslim boyfriend, a christian one, a jewish one, a parsi one, a hindu one, an atheist one, a chinese one, a buddhist one. Banda te banda honde. It's better to be really happy then follow a false sense of happiness where you enter religious extremism and go nuts. I'm not one for promoting baba nand singh's teaching of be a good x,y,z it can equate to be a good satanist or be a good atheist i'm more for be a good human

Veerji the Focus Punjab "PURE" program "Punjab Underprivileged Rural Empowerment" Project is 100% ringfenced to help the poor children back in Punjab and does not go to a central pool such as the humanitarian efforts Khalsa Aid have participated in outside of Punjab. Theoretically, if all us of Sangat on this forum do the best we can ... we could make a million dollar plus contribution. If we want Sarbath Da Bhalla, we need to be in a strong position ourselves, in order to have the committed male+female Gursikh manpower in order to bring about that global change for a peaceful world of justice and equality that we do Ardas for. http://focuspunjab.org/pure.html

Here is one of vidhi( very very powerful technique) should definitely help getting mann attuned in shabad and shabad only, this is also form of shabad surat, where there is nothing but shabad then after immense abhyas and satguru kirpa only thing which remains shabad gyan of Ik0NGKAR- ~~ Supreme Consciouness Awareness ~~. Do ardas to maharaj before sitting in meditation as without kirpa of satguru its not possible, then during meditation/simran, while you are meditating on shabad either audibly or in mind....perceive everything is folding itself in mind- going through parloa destruction itself back into shabad and i mean literally everything that includes thoughts, desires, being consciouly aware of i/ego- I am phalna phalna singh or singhani, even mind, everything whole universe, multiverse, every single mental concept, perceptions, pre conceived notion, pre conditioning...and after immense transcendental meditation and satguru kirpa- even perception of shabad resosance, paach shabad ...even perception of highest reference point dasam dwar slowly cease to exist and only thing remains shabad gyan of ikongkar ~~ Supreme Consciouness Awareness ~~ (Sargun/Nirgun ekta where dualism is destroyed- Bhramgyan/gyan of real self). Guru Maharaj says- everything came from shabad and destruct itself in the shabad, and before creation or destruction its only gyan and nothing else. ਉਤਪਤਿ ਪਰਲਉ ਸਬਦੇ ਹੋਵੈ ॥ ਸਬਦੇ ਹੀ ਫਿਰਿ ਓਪਤਿ ਹੋਵੈ ॥ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਵਰਤੈ ਸਭੁ ਆਪੇ ਸਚਾ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਉਪਾਇ ਸਮਾਵਣਿਆ ॥੧॥ SGGS page 117 Creation and destruction happen through the Shabad. Through the Shabad, creation happens again So in simpler terms and for understanding purpose. Please see the flow below: Creation: Pure Consciouness Thoughtless Awareness(Gyan of shabad/self realization of shabad/nirgun real self)* --> Shabad resosance ---> Sargun creation- maya which includes man, chit- individual consciouness, ahankar- ego, thoughts, desires, karams- good or bad. *Eh akhar kirh jaingaie, vo akhar inn mein nahi | Akhar Dristh Man Jaita Nanak Parbhram Nirlaipa || Destruction of creation/thoughts/perception in one consciousness, everything destruct/fold itself back Sargun creation folding back --> Shabad resosance ---> Shabd (sargun nirgun gyan). Don't worry too much about sargun nirgun gyan or sargun nirgun at this point, just follow- maha vakk of guru maharaj - ਉਤਪਤਿ ਪਰਲਉ ਸਬਦੇ ਹੋਵੈ ॥ ਸਬਦੇ ਹੀ ਫਿਰਿ ਓਪਤਿ ਹੋਵੈ ॥ Creation and destruction happen through the Shabad and perceive this shabad while you meditating, naturally all thoughts will cease to exist after perceiving it over and again that everything is destructing itself into shabad while meditating on shabad with your surat and after a while only things remains is shabad resonance ... mind, consciously awareness of i/ego slowly disappears itself as well after apaar kirpa from satguru - shabad resosance will also disappear in meditation... and only thing will remain is shabad gyan of ikongkar ~~ Supreme Consciouness Awareness ~~ (Sargun/Nirgun ekta- Bhramgyan).

Was he not helped by indira to get a break in the film industry and were not his mother and indira friends, its seems he was repaying the favour by going all out when she was assassinated. He's nanna and his two mammas were british / hindu spoons, who were only concerned about their own interests, i mean their only sister/daughter and his mother married a bheyah, shows how much sikh values were instilled into her/them.

The people here advocating hate of muslims, understand one thing. When muslims killed millions of hindus during moghul raaj, none of the Guru Sahibaans preached hate towards one religion. Instead they raised the sword against the tyrant, regardlesss of what religion the tyrant followed, whether it was the moghuls, afghans, or hindu hill rajas. Their actions set a precedent for us to follow.

The rumour about Sant Jee being a 'congress agent' was started by Longowal and the Akali's, who resented the impact that Sant Jee had on the masses. However none of Sant Jee's actions or words have given any substance to this rumour. People nowadays who do not like or understand what Sant Jee stood for - propagate this myth to give comfort to their over inflated ego's.

Gurmat does not order to disregard the ardas (oath as you say) Longowal did before Maharaj. You have not read Zafarnamna. Satguru in there says, never trust a person who swears by his religions scripture and then goes back on his word. Bhai Mani Singh could have saved many Sikhs by just saying once he is a Muslim, mothers could have saved their small childs lives if they said in one split second that they were Muslims. But listening to Satguru's teachings they never backed down and told them straight that they are sticking to their oath of giving their head to Satguru as Sikhs. The Akalis are the true congress agents who were in bed with congress. Akalis invited congress to their homes, gave them hospitality, and Akalis openly went to congress homes. Sant Baba Jarnail Singh ji Khalsa was in the way of the Akalis of gaining political power and so was he in the way of the congress. The Akalis and congress had one common enemy. Sant ji goes and both parties win, which is openly seen today. Did the Akalis know Indira was going to slaughter those many Sikhs...........I don't think so, but Akalis at the end viewed it as collateral damage for getting what they wanted. Satguru Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji Maharaj lost his whole family in battling for justice and never once did he say I will break my oath to save lives. Gurmat is to stand up for truth and follow Hukam. If today no one stands up for justice, then tomorrow their will be four folds more of oppression. Satguru along with SIkhs like Bhai Mani Singh knew that oppressors never stop until either you are dead or made a slave. And Satguru says death is more sweet that being a slave. Because of the Akalis today the Sikhs are slaves. Whether Sant ji took up the sword or not Congress would have slaughtered Sikhs in whatever way they saw best. Sant ji kept it peaceful, but congress continued to slaughter Sikhs without a care. After the 13 Sikhs were killed Sant ji still kept it peaceful and said lets take this to the pen by going through the court system. It was only after the boiling point did Sant ji tell the Sikhs to pick up the swords.

That's the wrong way to take it, nothing wrong with the word just that school of thought (advait vedanta) should not be confused with sikhi. It has a big flaw in it. To see gurbani as various individual changing preceptions of reality is insulting, because individual perception is false (as it changes). Gurbani is ultimate truth. Gurbani is sach hi sach. it's a case of how much the sikh has realised the truth of gurbani not a case of the truth changing (falsehood). The more a sikh progresses, the more he starts to realise and personally experience the truth of gurbani. Yes gurbani does have different messages for different avasthas, but that's not a change in truth. All the message and spirtual levels mentioned in gurbani are 100% sach. bwxI gurU gurU hY bwxI ivic bwxI AMimRqu swry ] The Word, the Bani is Guru, and Guru is the Bani. Within the Bani, the Ambrosial Nectar is contained. guru bwxI khY syvku jnu mwnY prqiK gurU insqwry ]5] If His humble servant believes, and acts according to the Words of the Guru's Bani, then the Guru, in person, emancipates him. ||5|| Disregaring our guru sahib and putting faith in other belief sytems will lead us further away from Vaheguru (but perhaps you don't care as you believe you are the ultimate one as per advait vedant philosphy) bwJu gurU gubwru hY ibnu sbdY bUJ n pwie ] baajh guroo gubaar hai bin sabadhai boojh n paae || Without the Guru, there is only pitch darkness; without the Shabad, understanding is not obtained. Charitpakhyan does not instruct us to do dodgy stuff, more like avoid it - it's teaching us important life lessons.

Why didn't everyone just stop watching his movies ?? My father never allowed them in the house from then and I became a young Dharmender fan !

Correct,- In Britain the smokers really take the mick I remember that the smokers would kick up such a fuss because they had to pay for Nicotine replacement therapy such as patches and gum..etc.. They had the cheek to complain about the price ! and insist that it be on the NHS for free. I know in some areas according to health authorities it was completely free but if any wise guy looks at the price of gum, patches, inhalators...and all that and work out what the cost for sing per week comes to then you don't have to be Einstein to realize that it will still be cheaper than the cigarettes ! Unfortunately, the stupid government gives in and listens to such rubbish demands as usual leaving the healthcare in a mess. In my opinion, it should be a lesson to the singh for lighting up ! if he hadn't been in the pub in the 1st place and then on top of that in the beer garden to get his smoke, then NONE of this would have happened. Just cry 'racism; when the going gets tough ! God tries to teach you lessons as you make your mistakes, but most of us are too blinded to ever realize. In this case, God gave some beatings via a Mr Terry to some one that claims to be a singh.

I dont think his dad encouraged him. Amongst Sikh parents such behavior is frowned upon no matter what religion the girl belongs to. Now what I think what must have happened is, like most guys he wanted a girl friend in college for sexual purposes/romance but he intended to marry someone else in future. Guys do his type of stuff a lot. I'm sorry for what happened to do. When he wanted to break up with you, he thought it would be easier to face you if he blames it all on his parents. If a guy says he wants to have sex before marriage, never trust him. Guys by nature do not respect girls who make themselves too easy for them before marriage. That is the mentality of a lot of guys out there. Even if you do not marry him, I would encourage you to tell your story to his parents and sisters though. So atleast his family should know what kind of a disgraceful son/brother they have.

Thanks, I wasn't aware because I've only read the main popular ones.

for that there r also some charitar of males also in sri charitropakhyan ji..

We should help fellow brother/sisters with more ideas, with our constructive feedback to make it better while appreciating their hard work....more sikhi awareness the better on the web..i must say sikhs have already done excellent job for spreading sikhi online and they already have superseded sikhi parchar on online/social media..very very good job to all cyber sikh sevadars for doing their part...i m very grateful to all of you guys..!!

Those who commit suicide, do they really make their own decision to leave? Or, like everything else, is the act of committing suicide also part of God's will? I've never really understood this.

I detest all smokers...Sikh or otherwise. At best, I think they should all be denied access to doctors and the NHS, and jobs etc. They're a drain on all our resources. At worst, I think they should be physically attacked. 'Sikhs' that smoke fall into the latter category. The motive of Mr Terry may have been wrong.....but the end result is a good one. Amarjait's mum and dad should reflect on where and what their son was doing when he got attacked.

WRONG. Guru Tegh Bahadur sacrificed himself for peoples RIGHT TO WORSHIP WHATEVER THEY WANTED FREELY. He didn't die just for the sake of Hinduism. Sikhs are not meant to DEFEND anyones sensibilities and feelings, only our own lofty ideals. We believe in Free Speech, Freedom of Religion, equal rights, and defending the innocent from actual harm. Where does it say we aren't allowed to criticize other faiths? Where does it say we should stop people calling out Islam for what it really is? All that matters is we tell the TRUTH, however ugly it may be. In fact our Guru's weren't afraid to criticize and laugh at the illogical nature of other faiths AT ALL! Here are some facts... Islam: The Guru's referred to Halal as 'Kutha' meat. The meat of a dog, because it was considered barbaric. Muslims are mandated to eat Halal meat in the Koran, what does that say for how much our Guru's respect the tenets in the Koran? Guru Nanak slept with his feet towards the Kabba at Mecca to mock how Muslims pray to it. How much do you think he respected Islam? The Sikh Empire banned the 'Azaan' wherever it ruled. The Azaan is the call to prayer which basically blasts out the Shahada (the declaration of faith) over a wide radius, annoying the crap out of anyone who isn't Muslim. The Guru's may have been friends with individual Muslims, and they may even have liked various bits of poetry that fitted their ideals, but that does NOT mean they liked Islam. Hinduism: Cutting off a Durga Idols nose: "During expedition, Guru Gobind Singh reached Kiratpur, which was in the state of Raja Tara Chand in temple of Naina Devi (goddess) where a Sikh Bhairo cut the nose of the Idol of Durga. After complaint of hill kings to Guru Gobind Singh, Singh enquired from the Sikh in front of the kings to which he replied to ask from the goddess who has cut her nose. On this the kings replied that goddess cannot speak. Bhairo laughed and replied, “if the goddess (idol) cannot speak and cannot protect the body then what good you expect from her?” Then the kings were quiet and anger still persists." Not to mention... The Guru's told us to reject all of the many falsehoods that these two religions promoted whether it be fasting, pilgrimages, idol worship, inequality and the caste system, the veiling and mistreatment of woman or just dumb old superstitions. The Guru's thought all these things were either pointless, wrong or downright stupid. Thus, how much respect do you think they had for the principles of these religions? Not much I assure you. http://www.sikhs.org/guru1.htm Guru Nanak himself was quite sarcastic and never afraid to make fun of the ineptitude of others. "When Guru Nanak stopped at Hardwar a pilgrimage center on the Ganges river he found a large gathering of devotees. They were taking ritual baths in the holy river and offering water to the sun. When the Guru asked "Why do you throw water like that?" The pilgrims replied that they were offering it to their ancestors. Guru Nanak upon hearing this started throwing water in the opposite direction towards the west. When the pilgrims asked him what he was doing?. Guru Nanak replied "I am sending water to my farm which is dry". They asked, "How will water reach you crops so far away?". Guru Nanak replied, "If your water can reach your ancestors in the region of the sun, why can't mine reach my fields a short distance away?" The pilgrims realized their folly and fell at the Gurus feet." ---- There is no evidence that Guru Hargobind built a Mosque, this is merely speculation. ---- You LOVE Islam? Hahahaha! Well sorry to break it to you but Islam HATES you. Whether your Muslim friends are true friends or not I can't say, but I'd be wary of Taqiyya and Kitman if I were you, Muslims are ALLOWED to lie to get what they want. Sikhs are not. Have you read the Koran? I have. You REALLY should too. Sura 9:29: Fight those who do not believe in Allah. Fight against those who (1) believe not in Allah, (2) nor in the Last Day, (3) nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger (4) and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth (i.e. Islam) among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. Sura 3:28: Do not take unbelievers as friends, unless it’s to find protection. Hide your faith if needed. Let not the believers take disbelievers for their friends in preference to believers. Whoso doeth that hath no connection with Allah unless (it be) that ye but guard yourselves against them, taking (as it were) security. Allah biddeth you beware (only) of Himself. Unto Allah is the journeying. ---- The EDL are NOT attacking any Muslims, and NOT smashing up any shops or Mosques. There is NO proof of any of this taking place. They continue to peacefully protest, even when they constantly get bottles thrown at them by the Socialist 'United Against Fascism' group. Tommy Robinson has given normal everyday people a platform to voice their anger, that anger could so EASILY have erupted into violence as it did in the Bradford Riots. You want to talking about smashing up shops? A gang of 40 Sikhs were forced to smash up a small restaurant in Leicester to root out a bunch of grooming pedophile Muslims. They did this because the desperate family who was suffering wasn't getting ANY help from the police so they turned to the community for help. The POLICE and the MEDIA have mostly proven that they aren't on OUR side. They are only interested in preserving 'community cohesion' which means licking Muslim bottoms, because they know that SIKHS won't blow themselves up when they get grumpy. The groomers were arrested STRAIGHT after the attack took place, as the Police couldn't pretend it wasn't happening anymore. It took AGES before the names of the groomers (all of them Muslim, with one Hindu mentioned) were finally released. The use of the term 'ASIAN' constantly smears and insults us, and the Sikhs involved in the attack who got us justice were villified as mere misinformed THUGS. The Police first LIED to our faces, and THEN tried to arrest as many Sikhs as they could afterwards. If the Police just DID THEIR FREAKING JOB, none of this would have happened... Who ELSE is worth siding with moreso than the EDL at this point? Aside from UKIP the political party? ----- Pre-emptive strike? No problem . How about Guru Gobind sending Banda Singh to destroy the Mughal government in Punjab? After he believed that he had been betrayed by the Mughals (in this case Bahadur Shah, whom he believed had allied himself to Wazir Khan and was plotting to attack Sikhs) once again. Now, whether the Bahadur Shah WOULD have betrayed the Sikhs or not, Guru Gobind issued the order regardless as he clearly had had quite enough. But if I DIDN'T have that great example, what difference would it make? It is the actions of certain Muslims, their disgusting aggression and intolerance for our way of life (this is happening around the world remember) that is the ONLY reason people feel the way they do and why groups like the EDL exist. The pre-emptive strike has ALREADY happened, and it was Muslims that fired the first shot. As usual. The EDL didn't just appear out of NOWHERE. They exist to combat a REAL problem. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- As for the topic... Didn't we ALREADY have this discussion in the Political forum? Yet there are still pagal's on this forum who spew idiocy and bury their heads in the sand, and want to pretend that Sharia Law isn't encroaching and already messing with our way of life, and how the VAST majority of Muslims want Sharia Law in the UK. WHERE IS THE LOGIC in worrying about the chavvy looking white guy across the street, when there's ALREADY some Pakistani nutjob stabbing you in the back? The PROBLEM RIGHT NOW which is ACTUALLY affecting us is Islam. Let us defeat the MAIN problem first. Sikhs have a problem. White people have a problem. We have the SAME exact problem. I'm friends with plenty of white people, and they are either willfully ignorant or TERRIFIED of how the world is changing around them. White people have all but lost their fighting spirit now and we have nothing to fear from them. What's the phrase? "The enemy of my enemy is my friend" The earliest version of that phrase is Indian by the way . The 'Sikhs Against EDL' and 'Turban Campaign' must be stopped, they are protecting Muslims and AGAINST our interests. On the other hand if Sikhs want to join the EDL and take part in peaceful protest then more power to them, a few brown faces would tip the balance and we'll all get what we want. There is only ONE Koran, that is where Sharia Law stems from, and the Hadith of course. 'Radical' Islam and 'Moderate' Islam follow the SAME EXACT principles. The only difference is HOW GOOD OF A MUSLIM DO YOU WANT TO BE? Muslims are free to believe in whatever they want, so long as it doesn't affect anyone else. The problem is that Islam as it stands will never allow peace and it will never change. So... We must chop the balls off Islam once and for all through strong legislation and education. We MUST ensure that Sharia Law, the TRUE nature of Islam stays in the wretched Middle Eastern desert where it rightfully belongs. For the sake of EVERYONES future (Non-Muslim and Muslim) this must happen.

no where in sikhism does it say do not convert other people to the faith. And nor does it say in sikh scriptures that all faiths are equal this is a myth made by anti-sikh people that do not want to share the jewel of sikhism and who want sikhism to be some kind of small group cult which it isnt. In sikh scriptures in Sri guru granth sahib ji it states that various holy books of major world religions are true that is they all have truth to them doesnt mean they are all correct and only hold the truth as most of them contradict each other. Sikhi is the truth and is the true religion because it goes direct to the source of creation waheguru. It says dont worry about all the rituals that hindus, christians,jews,muslims,etc tell you to do that is all temporal that does not please God. Only thing that waheguru wants from you is remember him connect with him and this will naturally make you a Sikh that wants to do other more good deeds out of love for waheguru.

Just jumping ahead, sangat ji please read the whole of this chapter of bachitar natak bani, it’s so amazing and shows how founders of other religions were inferior and did not fully please Akal purakh Vaheguru. We are taught to respect and not insult other religions but this doesn’t mean we should not proudly say guru sahib’s sikhi is the greatest! There is not need to be politically correct saying this! Anyways I’m jumping onto relevant tuks relating to the topic that has been discussed by myself and n30singh: ਤਪ ਸਾਧਤ ਹਰਿ ਮੋਹਿ ਬੁਲਾਯੋ ॥ ਇਮ ਕਹਿ ਕੈ ਇਹ ਲੋਕ ਪਠਾਯੋ ॥੨੮॥ When I was busy in the austere devotion, the Lord called me and sent me to this world with the following words.28. ਅਕਾਲ ਪੁਰਖ ਬਾਚ ॥ The Word of the Non-Temporal Lord: ਚੌਪਈ ॥ चौपई ॥ CHAUPAI ਮੈ ਅਪਨਾ ਸੁਤ ਤੋਹਿ ਨਿਵਾਜਾ ॥ ਪੰਥ ਪ੍ਰਚੁਰ ਕਰਬੇ ਕਹੁ ਸਾਜਾ ॥ I have adopted you as my son and hath created you for the propagation of the path (Panth). ਜਾਹਿ ਤਹਾਂ ਤੈ ਧਰਮੁ ਚਲਾਇ ॥ ਕਬੁਧਿ ਕਰਨ ਤੇ ਲੋਕ ਹਟਾਇ ॥੨੯॥ You go therefore for the spread of Dharma (righteousness) and cause people to retrace their steps from evil actions".29. ਕਬਿਬਾਚ ॥ The World of the Poet: ਦੋਹਰਾ ॥ DOHRA ਠਾਢ ਭਯੋ ਮੈ ਜੋਰਿ ਕਰ ਬਚਨ ਕਹਾ ਸਿਰ ਨਿਆਇ ॥ I stood up with folded hands and bowing down my head, I said: ਪੰਥ ਚਲੈ ਤਬ ਜਗਤ ਮੈ ਜਬ ਤੁਮ ਕਰਹੁ ਸਹਾਇ ॥੩੦॥ The path (Panth) shall prevail only in the world, with THY ASSISTANCE."30. ਚੌਪਈ ॥ CHAUPI ਇਹ ਕਾਰਨਿ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਮੋਹਿ ਪਠਾਯੋ ॥ ਤਬ ਮੈ ਜਗਤਿ ਜਨਮ ਧਰਿ ਆਯੋ ॥ For this reason the Lord sent me and I was born in this world. ਜਿਮ ਤਿਨ ਕਹੀ ਇਨੈ ਤਿਮ ਕਹਿਹੋਂ ॥ ਅਉਰ ਕਿਸੂ ਤੇ ਬੈਰ ਨ ਗਹਿਹੋਂ ॥੩੧॥ Whatever the Lord said, I am repeating the same unto you, I do not bear enmity with anyone.31. ਜੋ ਹਮ ਕੋ ਪਰਮੇਸਰ ਉਚਰਿ ਹੈਂ ॥ ਤੇ ਸਭ ਨਰਕਿ ਕੁੰਡ ਮਹਿ ਪਰਿਹੈਂ ॥ Whosoever shall call me the Lord, shall fall into hell. ਮੋ ਕੌ ਦਾਸ ਤਵਨ ਕਾ ਜਾਨੋ ॥ ਯਾ ਮੈ ਭੇਦ ਨ ਰੰਚ ਪਛਾਨੋ ॥੩੨॥ Consider me as His servant and do not think of any difference between me and the Lord.32. ਮੈ ਹੋ ਪਰਮ ਪੁਰਖ ਕੋ ਦਾਸਾ ॥ ਦੇਖਨਿ ਆਯੋ ਜਗਤ ਤਮਾਸਾ ॥ I am the servant of the Supreme Purusha and hath come to see the Sport of the world. ਜੋ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਜਗਤਿ ਕਹਾ ਸੋ ਕਹਿ ਹੋਂ ॥ ਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਲੋਕ ਤੇ ਮੋਨਿ ਨ ਰਹਿਹੋਂ ॥੩੩॥ Whatever the Lord of the world said, I say the same unto you, I cannot remain silent in this abode of death.33.

Another problem with this vedant type philopshy of yours is that it goes against the principle of: jh dyKw qh eyku qU AMqu n pwrwvwru ] jeh dhaekhaa theh eaek thoo anth n paaraavaar | Wherever I look, there I see You, Lord; You have no end or limitation. Vaheguru has no limit or end that means the level of brahmgyan too must have no limit. With your definition of the highest avastha that there is no drop, the soul is the ocean like god violates this sikhi principle of vaheguru and his brahmgyan having no end/limit. Also if this is the highest avastha it then fails to explain how guru sahib comes into the equation. A brahmgyani cannot be equal to guru sahib but your theory suggests the soul realises it was always god. For now let us leave the vichaar of mahapurakhs/bhai sahibs/ gurmukhs as they all had different views, some heavily influenced by vedant and some not and this could end up into a childish argument over which gurmukh mahapursh is better or has more kmayee etc. So I’m sure even you will not argue with Guru Gobind Singh. However you still may stubbornly hold onto these vedant views. My main hope is sangat realises the truth and for now leave out vichaar of gurmukhs/mahapurakhs but listen directly to Guru Gobind Singh ji. Guru Gobind Singh before being given status of Satguru by Vaheguru was pooran next level brahmgyani, as dusth daman, totally one and very deeply merged with the lord. Please ponder on these tuks very carefully from dasam granth written by Guru Gobind Singh jee himself in bachitar natak (also this dasam bani like bani from guru granth sahib also proves founders of other religions including devtas did not reach vaheguru as you have failed to humbly accept many times in previous online discussions – but that’s another topic): ਤਹ ਹਮ ਅਧਿਕ ਤਪਸਿਆ ਸਾਧੀ ॥ ਮਹਾਕਾਲ ਕਾਲਿਕਾ ਅਰਾਧੀ ॥੨॥ There I was absorbed in deep meditation on the Primal Power, the Supreme KAL.2. ਇਹ ਬਿਧਿ ਕਰਤ ਤਪਿਸਆ ਭਯੋ ॥ ਦ੍ਵੈ ਤੇ ਏਕ ਰੂਪ ਹ੍ਵੈ ਗਯੋ ॥ In this way, my meditation reached its zenith and I became One with the Omnipotent Lord. ਤਾਤ ਮਾਤ ਮੁਰ ਅਲਖ ਅਰਾਧਾ ॥ ਬਹੁ ਬਿਧਿ ਜੋਗ ਸਾਧਨਾ ਸਾਧਾ ॥੩॥ My parents also meditated for the union with the Incomprehensible Lord and performed many types of disciplines for union.3. ਤਿਨ ਜੋ ਕਰੀ ਅਲਖ ਕੀ ਸੇਵਾ ॥ ਤਾ ਤੇ ਭਏ ਪ੍ਰਸੰਨਿ ਗੁਰਦੇਵਾ ॥ The service that they rendered the Incomprehensible Lord, caused the pleasure of the Supreme Guru ਤਿਨ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਜਬ ਆਇਸ ਮੁਹਿ ਦੀਆ ॥ ਤਬ ਹਮ ਜਨਮ ਕਲੂ ਮਹਿ ਲੀਆ ॥੪॥ When the Lord ordered me, I was born in this Iron age.4. ਚਿਤ ਨ ਭਯੋ ਹਮਰੋ ਆਵਨ ਕਹਿ ॥ ਚੁਭੀ ਰਹੀ ਸ੍ਰੁਤਿ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਚਰਨਨ ਮਹਿ ॥ I had no desire to come, because I was totally absorbed in devotion for the Holy feet of the Lord. ਜਿਉ ਤਿਉ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਹਮ ਕੋ ਸਮਝਾਯੋ ॥ ਇਮ ਕਿਹ ਕੈ ਇਹ ਲੋਕਿ ਪਠਾਯੋ ॥੫॥ But the Lord made me understand His Will and sent me in this world with the following words.5. ਅਕਾਲ ਪੁਰਖ ਬਾਚ ਇਸ ਕੀਟ ਪ੍ਰਤਿ ॥ The Words of the Non-temporal Lord to this insect: ਚੌਪਈ ॥ CHAUPAI ਜਬ ਪਹਿਲੇ ਹਮ ਸ੍ਰਿਸਟਿ ਬਨਾਈ ॥ ਦਈਤ ਰਚੇ ਦੁਸਟ ਦੁਖਦਾਈ ॥ When I created the world in the beginning, I created the ignominious and dreadful Daityas. ਤੇ ਭੁਜ ਬਲ ਬਵਰੇ ਹ੍ਵੈ ਗਏ ॥ ਪੂਜਤ ਪਰਮ ਪੁਰਖ ਰਹਿ ਗਏ ॥੬॥ Who became mad with power and abandoned the worship of Supreme Purusha.6. ਤੇ ਹਮ ਤਮਕਿ ਤਨਕ ਮੋ ਖਾਪੇ ॥ ਤਿਨ ਕੀ ਠਉਰ ਦੇਵਤਾ ਥਾਪੇ ॥ I destroyed them in no time and created gods in their place. ਤੇ ਭੀ ਬਲਿ ਪੂਜਾ ਉਰਝਾਏ ॥ ਆਪਨ ਹੀ ਪਰਮੇਸੁਰ ਕਹਾਏ ॥੭॥ They were also absorbed in the worship of power and called themselves Ominipotednt.7. ਮਹਾਦੇਵ ਅਚੁੱਤ ਕਹਾਯੋ ॥ ਬਿਸਨ ਆਪ ਹੀ ਕੋ ਠਹਿਰਾਯੋ ॥ Mahadeo (Shiva) was called Achyuta (blotless), Vishnu considered himself the Supreme. ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਆਪ ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਬਖਾਨਾ ॥ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਕੋ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਨ ਕਿਨਹੂੰ ਜਾਨਾ ॥੮॥ Brahma called himself Para Brahman, none could comprehend the Lord.8. ਤਬ ਸਾਖੀ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਅਸਟ ਬਨਾਏ ॥ ਸਾਖ ਨਮਿਤ ਦੇਬੇ ਠਹਿਰਾਏ ॥ Then I created eight Sakshis in order to give evidence of my Entity. ਤੇ ਕਹੈ ਕਰੋ ਹਮਾਰੀ ਪੂਜਾ ॥ ਹਮ ਬਿਨ ਅਵਰੁ ਨ ਠਾਕੁਰੁ ਦੂਜਾ ॥੯॥ But they considered themselves all in all and aasked the people to worship them.9. ਪਰਮ ਤਤ ਕੋ ਜਿਨ ਨ ਪਛਾਨਾ ॥ ਤਿਨ ਕਰਿ ਈਸਰ ਤਿਨ ਕਹੁ ਮਾਨਾ ॥ Those who did not comprehend the Lord, they were considered as Ishvara. ਕੇਤੇ ਸੂਰ ਚੰਦ ਕਹੁ ਮਾਨੈ ॥ ਅਗਨਿ ਹੋਤ੍ਰ ਕਈ ਪਵਨ ਪ੍ਰਮਾਨੈ ॥੧੦॥ Several people worshipped the sun and the moon and several others worshipped Fire and Ait.10. ਕਿਨਹੂੰ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਪਾਹਨ ਪਹਿਚਾਨਾ ॥ ਨ੍ਹਾਤ ਕਿਤੇ ਜਲ ਕਰਤ ਬਿਧਾਨਾ ॥ Several them considered God as stone and several others bathed considering the Lordship of Water. ਕੇਤਕ ਕਰਮ ਕਰਤ ਡਰਪਾਨਾ ॥ ਧਰਮ ਰਾਜ ਕੋ ਧਰਮ ਪਛਾਨਾ ॥੧੧॥ Considering Dharmaraja as the Supreme representative of Dharma, several bore fear of him in their actions. 11. ਜੋ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਸਾਖ ਨਮਿਤ ਠਹਿਰਾਏ ॥ ਤੇ ਹਿਆਂ ਆਇ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਕਹਵਾਏ ॥ All those whom God established for the revelation of His Supremacy, they themselves were called Supreme. ਤਾ ਕੀ ਬਾਤ ਬਿਸਰ ਜਾਤੀ ਭੀ ॥ ਅਪਨੀ ਅਪਨੀ ਪਰਤ ਸੋਭ ਭੀ ॥੧੨॥ They forgot the Lord in their race for supremacy. 12 ਜਬ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਕੋ ਨ ਤਿਨੈ ਪਹਿਚਾਨਾ ॥ ਤਬ ਹਰਿ ਇਨ ਮਨੁਛਨ ਠਹਿਰਾਨਾ ॥ When they did not comprehend the Lord, then I established human beings in their place.

Oh N30Singh! This is not Gurmat form of Prema Bhagti and Guru Sahib in Gurbani can never sanction such an Anti-Gurmat principle. This one soul thinking is akin to vedant philosophy of “I am god”. The supreme gurmat philosophy is different. As per gurbani there is One Supreme Lord who has given birth to countless souls, each jeevatma has come forth from the supreme One’s light, and the Lord is in all hearts, this is how we are jot saroop. We are all made of the same clay, but if a tiny piece of clay were to say I am source from where all the clay is, that would be totally wrong right? gur prswdI ieku ndrI AwieAw hau siqgur ivthu vqwieAw jIau ]3] gur parasaadhee eik nadharee aaeiaa ho sathigur vittahu vathaaeiaa jeeo |3| By Guru's Grace, I have come to see the One. I am a sacrifice to the True Guru. ||3|| Now where does Satguru ji come into all this with the vedant philosophy, where supposedly this whole time the soul was god ? Sri Jap ji sahib pauri which talks about karam khand and sackhand: iqQY Bgq vsih ky loA ] thithai bhagath vasehi kae loa | The devotees of many worlds dwell there. If there is only one soul that exists then why does gurbani say the one lord is the MASTER of all these beings? swcw swhbu eyku qU hoir jIAw kyqy loA ]3] saachaa saahab eaek thoo hor jeeaa kaethae loa |3| You are the One True Lord and Master of all the other beings, of so many worlds. ||3|| MY essence merges into God’s essence, so basically soul merges into the supreme soul, not “the soul realises it was actually god all this” time vedant vichaar: eykY kink Aink Bwiq swjI bhu prkwr rcwieE ] eaekai kanik anik bhaath saajee bahu parakaar rachaaeiou | The same gold is fashioned into various articles; just so, the Lord has made the many patterns of the creation. khu nwnk Brmu guir KoeI hY iev qqY qqu imlwieE ]4]2]123] kahu naanak bharam gur khoee hai eiv thathai thath milaaeiou |4|2|123| Says Nanak, the Guru has dispelled my doubt; in this way, my essence merges into God's essence. ||4||2||123|| The fact that two are mentioned i.e. Vaheguru and the Jeev proves that the Jeev is not Vaheguru. This Shabad talks about the merger between Vaheguru and the Jeev. It does not say that the Jeev is Vaheguru: qohI mohI mohI qohI AMqru kYsw ] thohee mohee mohee thohee anthar kaisaa | You are me, and I am You-what is the difference between us? knk kitk jl qrMg jYsw ]1] kanak kattik jal tharang jaisaa |1| We are like gold and the bracelet, or water and the waves. ||1|| jau pY hm n pwp krMqw Ahy Anµqw ] jo pai ham n paap karanthaa ahae ananthaa | If I did not commit any sins, O Infinite Lord, piqq pwvn nwmu kYsy huMqw ]1] rhwau ] pathith paavan naam kaisae hunthaa |1| rehaao | how would You have acquired the name, 'Redeemer of sinners'? ||1||Pause||

Perhaps more accurate description of bhramgyani is to say there is no indivuality left (haume) but the soul is still there. The drop doesn't actually dissapear in the ocean it's still there but completely lost and absorbed in the ocean. The soul doesn't "die" more like the ego dies and the drop in ocean like soul is still aware and fully in bliss. Think about it, if vaheguru is aware and in bliss, then the one who has mearged in him must also be aware and in bliss of vaheguru! Any gursikh/mahapurash who says different about their experience may be experiencing something of a lower level i.e. "sunn" as descirbed in hinudism.

Dear Scali, maya is very deceptive, you may be attracting what you think of or believe or whatever but do not make the mistake that thinking will get one to waheguru. Only through the udham of naam japna with love and concentration and ultimately pooran kirpa of Guru Sahib when he is kush with our efforts (these philosphies keep forgetting guru sahib in our journey to meeting vaheguru) do we meet Vaheguru ji. Please do not add or twist things regarding what you said about Bhai Randhir Singh. Before bhai sahib took amrit and entered the school of sikhi he followed a "sant" around for a few days because at that time bhai sahib was particularly reading alot of bhagat bani where the importance of "sant" was mentioned baar baar. Bhai Sahib refused to see him ever again because the sikh principle of not smoking was being violated by this so called sant. I don't know where you get this "even if he is GOD I dont care". Of course bhai soon enough realised the truest and highest sant is Guru Sahib himself...

Why would ustads make contact with Nidar Singh? You may think Nidar Singh is a God, but these ustads know what his true intentions are.

Sangat-so-thirsty

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL!!!

WJKK WJKF I wrote this story a while back in a post but no one seemed to reply so I thought id make a topic. A few years back I was at a Gurdwara and there was one of the Sangat telling stories about Punjab, and about the amount of blood shed in Punjab from the times of our Gurus until now. He then told a story, which was from a few years back from Punjab. Im a bit sketchy on all the details as it was a few years back so please forgive me. In a Pind in Punjab, there was a tree which locals said gave a errie feeling when you go past it. They ask a Baba why this is. He explained that they should dig the ground where they tree is. The villages did and they found a bag full of human bones. They asked the Baba about this and he replied that these bones belonged to Sikhs who were fighting Mughals during Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Hargobind Sahib Ji Maharajas’ time. The Mughals put the bones in a bag and left them. He told the Singhs to take the bones to a nearby village (I forgotten the reason why). The Singhs then preceded to the village, and went through a forest. Whilst walking, they heard a noise behind them and saw a Beautiful tall Singh dressed in white Bana. The Singh asked them if they have the bones of the soliders, to which they replied yes, and the Singh then said that he will take them. The group agreed and went into the opposite direction to the Singh. As soon as they turned around to see him again, he was gone. They went back to the Baba and explained the situation, the Baba said that When God wants to he will do it himself, and exaplined that it was Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Hargobind Sahib Ji Maharaj who they saw and who took the remains of the Sikh soldiers with him. Has anyone heard of this story, or has the full story. Does anyone have any other stories like this? Phul Chuk Maff if I have made any mistakes at all. WJKK WJKF

sins are washed off through meditation on Naam and attendance in the satsangat. I guarantee you that peace lies down this road.