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There seems to be some naïve questions/excuses against Khalistan. Either opposers don’t understand it or are against it for no valid reason. Buddhism spread far a wide only after King Ashoka adopted it and made it an official State religion. During this time period, Buddhism spread from Afghanistan to Japan and Kashmir to Sri Lanka as well as Thailand etc. Even Buddhists lost their political power, they became pretty much extinct from India. It was only during last century that it started to gain some influence in India and that was because of Indian politics accommodating it. Khalsa was created to be sovereign and we cannot flourish without a political State. Our Gurdwaras, religious beliefs, women, children and future generations will never be safe all the time under a foreign rule. We have seen in 18th century how Sikhs were persecuted and our safety entirely depended on the mood swings of the Mughal officials. British rule was no different. Our Gurdwaras remained in their hands and we didn’t even have the right to wear a Kirpan and a black turban until beginning of 20th century. How do you think 9” kirpan became common? Because British allowed this length only. Our Anand Karaj was illegal until 1906 and in the surrounding areas of Darbar Sahib we had to endure idols, prostitutes, lecherous shops and songs until 1906. In Hindu rule, we are no longer considered a separate nation and our survival is in jeopardy. How can we ever justify that Akal Purakh Ki Fauj remain without its own weapons, artillery, defense system, standing army, navy, air force and training programs? What does Khalsa Fauj have compared to other militaries? Absolutely nothing and that is because we have no political state. Any Sikh can practice his faith quietly in his home but the entire Panth cannot make a progress without having any independent rule. Guru Sahib didn’t make us quietist. He made us active householders. We will always remain at the mercy of the rulers in our respective countries and when the law changes, it will be our throat. Examples of France, Quebec and Belgium are in front of us. Italy doesn’t allow any Sikh to board a plane without taking his turban off. No one can guarantee that USA, Canada or other countries will always remain democratic, tolerant and liberal. Nonetheless, these countries cannot represent Sikhs as Sikhs. We need a country that represents us worldwide as Sikhs so that no matter where a Sikh has problems due to his religion, there will be a political state supporting him and he can always go to his nearby Khalistan embassy. Our Gurdwaras deteriorating in Muslim countries are due to our lack of political platform. I can go on and on but benefits of political country are numerous. No one has to move back but I am sure many Sikhs will and I personally will never stay in any western country even if I have to survive on one meal a day in Khalistan. Now let me address some questions: Can muslim do namaz, do hallal, sunnat based on their own traditions in the khalistan? Yes but in their own mosques not publically. This means no azan in speakers. Can hindus do gita da patt, puja, rituals in the khalistan? Yes, in their homes and mandirs. What about others buddhist, christians, shintos etc? Yes. Can sumaraie carry their own ceremonial swords, walk around in streets of khalistan? Yes as long as they abide by the law and don’t use in offense. Can atheist can live in khalistan? Yes. It is their personal belief and forcing religion on anyone is against Gurmat. what about natural born homosexuals? First of all, it has not been proven that homosexuals are natural born or it is in their genes. Second, they cannot be considered Sikhs. Therefore, while their human rights will be guaranteed and they will not be discriminated in employment, they cannot have marriage rights nor can their Anand Karaj be done. They will have to live as individuals. They cannot hold any positions exclusively for Sikhs i.e. Granthi, katha vachak, Panj Pyare etc. These questions are simply mundane because our focus should be on our own survival rather than opposing Khalistan due to uncertainty of other groups’ rights. In Muslim countries, non-Muslims have no right yet they are surviving. In many European countries, Sikhs have limited rights yet they are surviving. I am not saying we will be like them but focus on our survival first and then think about other groups and immigrants. If Muslims, Hindus and Christians don’t like it they can appeal in Sikh courts or go back to their own countries. Guru Rakha

Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale has said, "the day the Indian army attacks Sri Harmandir Sahib, the foundation of Khalistan will be laid". A Sikh who has shardha in Sant Jee should not doubt his Bachans. If the Bachans of Sant Jee are not enough for you then at least consider the destruction and damage that occurred at Akal Takht. From June 1st-8th, the floors of the Pakarma was washed with the blood of Sikhs. Then ten years after that, our youth were killed, sisters raped, entire families destroyed, and thousands of kids orphaned. ਸਿੰਘੋ ਬੇਗੈਰਤ ਹੋਣ ਦੀ ਭੀ ਕੋਈ ਹੱਦ ਹੁੰਦੀ ਹੈ। ਕੀ ਇਨਾ ਕੁਝ ਹੋਣ ਤੋਂ ਬਾਅਦ ਭੀ ਤੁਸੀਂ ਖਾਲਿਸਤਾਨ ਬਣਨ ਤੇ ਸ਼ੰਕਾ ਕਰਦੇ ਹੋ? ਜਿਸ ਖਾਲਿਸਤਾਨ ਲਈ ਹਜ਼ਾਰਾਂ ਸ਼ਹੀਦਾਂ ਨੇ ਕੁਰਬਾਨੀਆਂ ਦੇ ਕੇ ਨੀਂ ਰਖੀ? ਖੈਰ, ਭਾਵੇਂ ਤੁਸੀਂ ਚਾਹੋ ਜਾਂ ਨਾ ਚਾਹੋ, ਸੰਤ ਜੀ ਦੇ ਬਚਨ ਤਾ ਸੱਚ ਹੋਕੇ ਹੀ ਰਹਿਣ ਗੇ। ਖਾਲਿਸਤਾਨ ਜ਼ਿੰਦਾਬਾਦ!

Agree in principle that Khalistan should exist, how would it be managed and by whom at this point in time. We cant even manage a Gurdwara without killing each other, let alone a Country. Heard some elders say once there are enough Gursikhs Khalsa Raj will be facilitated automatically, and I agree.

Its not nonsense Here it is (Jaap Sahib): Together with (Guru Granth Sahib ji) As I was studying at Baru Sahib, we were told to recite this along with mool mantar (til Nanak hosi bhi Sach) and Chaupai Sahib (Kabyo bach benti) apart from the 7 banis nitnem (5 in the morning, Rehras in the evening + Kirtan Sohila before sleep) .

Hi Dave, that's great . welcome , start learning gurmukhi as a first thing, if you want to understand the deeper meaning to GuruBaani. it single single word is an ocean of knowledge. english translation will get us only to a point but not far take your time

Do what ever u want until Sikhs don't get their own country sikhi is not going to flourish in this world.

LOOOL, except that epic thread on the site not to be named to shere *do it do it*

Benti in the charan of Admin. Could this post be pinned. Many thanks. Vairag Shatak Raja Bharthari lived in Ujjain Nagar around two and a half thousand years ago. He was born in a high kul {lineage} who was a vidhwan pandit {scholar}. He was fair and just towards all his subjects and as such was much loved by all the parja {citizens}. His father’s name has been recorded in Rajavali as Raja Gandarbh Sann but mother’s name has been omitted and it is written that he was in fact born to a dasi {servant girl}. The raja had been married three or four times already but when he heard the kirti {praises} of a mahan sundar rajkumari {very beautiful princess}, he married her too. The name of this rani was Pingla. Her magical beauty and gunn {attributes} captivated the raja in such a way that he became her gulam {slave}. Just as the commands of Noor Jahan had a hold over Badshah Shah Jahan , this was the same scenario with raja Bharthari. Pingla feared none since the king Bharthari was under her “spell”. She wandered around sutantar {independently}, without fear, and as such fell in love with the astbal droga {stable master}. The rani had a devarr {husband’s younger brother}, who considered his elder brother raja Bharthari as a father figure and the rani as a mother. He obeyed their every order with utmost loyalty. The maharajah had given him the post of Pardan Mantri {Prime Minister}, the duties of which he carried out with great splendour. His name was Veer Vikramaditya, he is the same Mahapursh {great soul} who later came to be known as the famous Maharajah Bikramjit. The samat calendar is still used in his memory even today. Vikramditya was the first to have suspicions regarding the vibchar {adultery} of rani Pingla. After much deliberation he finally informed his brother raja of the misdeeds of rani Pingla. The raja was so besotted with Pingla that he took offence and as such reprimanded his own brother for saying such a thing. The raja went as far as to say that it is because you are my younger brother that I shall remain quiet otherwise I would have had you hanged. The raja considered his rani to be the supreme satti savitri {a lady who was the epitome of high moral character}. When Pingla found out about this confrontation she began to show even more love towards the raja. After some days she made a request to the raja, “your younger brother Vikramjit is like a son to me and I have always tried to be a mother to him but he looks at me in a lustful manner. Any other female would have succumbed to his advances by now! It is me who has evaded this terrible situation. He has made every attempt to defile me, and not only me, he has in fact destroyed the satt dharam {purity} of many women in this kingdom. It was only a few days ago that he attempted to lure the noh {daughter-in-law} of the Brahmin with the assistance of dootia {maids etc.} but she like me too is a pattibratta {faithful woman} and as such resisted his intentions. I implore you to stay alert and be very wary about such an adharmi {unscrupulous} man. I do not want you to be in any danger from him.” Upon hearing this the Maharajah took every word to be the utmost truth. Then rani Pingla called the Brahmin and said “are you aware that the Maharajah is is in my total control and if you desire your well being then follow my instructions to the full. Go to the Maharajah and make a pukar {plea}, if you don’t then I shall have you tortured!” The Brahmin knew that the raja was totally smitten by Pingla and as such would only take her word against any other. “I will obey your every command” replied the Brahmin to rani Pingla. Pingla told the Brahmin ”go to the raja’s court and make a faryad {plea}! and when he asks you what is the matter, you reply that kumar{prince} Bikramjit wants to engage in immorality with my noh {daughter-in-law} and if you are prepared to allow this than I shall leave your nagar {kingdom} and go elsewhere. I cannot stand by and allow my izatt {respect} and istri dharam {chaste} to be destroyed in this way.” “Also remember that you must not succumb to the raja in any way!” Upon hearing this the Brahmin went to see the Maharajah the very next day and cried his dilemma {which the rani taught him} with immense reality. The Maharajah filled with krodh {anger} upon hearing his words. Without padtal {investigation} the maharajah immediately ordered the des nikala {expulsion} of his younger brother from his kingdom. Bikramjit accepted his maharajah brother’s edict with love, patience, and without complain. He immediately went home and gathered his family and promptly left the kingdom. At the same time another situation occurred. One day a Brahmin arrived in the raj darbar {king’s court} and began to tell the raja that “twenty five years earlier I made a dridh sankulp {strict devotion} to do tapp {endurance} in order to appease the Devta {deity}, the devta gave me an Amar Phall {fruit that gives eternal life}. I have come here with that phall, my wife won’t eat it herself nor will she let me eat it. She says that we are poor and persistent poverty will be harder to manage. We only desire death now so that we may escape our hardships. If we eat the amar phall then we shan’t die and as a result will have to endure more hardship. That is why it is my wish that you take the amar phall so that you can continue to rule your kingdom in the most benevolent way and in return you can give us wealth which will eradicate our suffering.” Upon hearing this from the Pandit Rajah Bharthari he took the amar phall in exchange for an abundance of wealth, which pleased the Brahmin immensely. The rajah didn’t eat this fruit himself but gave it to his beloved rani Pingla. The rani thought that it would be deceitful of her to eat the fruit, so when the rajah left she summoned her lover and promptly gave him the fruit. The lover did not eat the fruit either but gave it instead to his favourite prostitute. The prostitute accepted the fruit but began to contemplate her lifestyle “I have sinned all my life, destroyed many marriages etc. If I eat this fruit and become amar {eternal} then this is all I will endure {lustful activities}. It is better that I give this fruit to the Maharajah instead, in whose raj he has given me so many pleasures.” After contemplating this with all sincerity she presented the fruit to the Maharajah. The maharajah was first stunned upon seeing the fruit but then asked the vesvah {lady of the night} where she had obtained this fruit from? Upon being interrogated by Bharthari the veshvah told the whole story truthfully “Your astbal droga {stable master} is my mitr {lover}, he gave it to me.” The raja immediately summoned the droga {stable master} and asked how he became in possession of the fruit? The drogra fell at the rajah’s feet and narrated the whole scenario of how he engaged in immorality with his rani Pingla. As soon as the Maharajah heard the whole story, he immediately filled with nafarat {hatred} of the rani and the world in general. He became fully vairag {total renunciation}. He immediately summoned the maha mantri {prime minister} and said; “look after this raj {kingdom} I am leaving. Bikramjit suffered pains owing to my decision to expel him. Call him back and place him on the throne.” As soon as he had given these instructions he immediately removed the robes that adorned his body. He covered his body with a solitary sheet as he left to join Gorakh. Maharajh Bharthari first wrote “Shingar Shatak” and during his reign wrote “Neeti Shatak” and after attaining vairag {renunciation} he wrote “Vairag Shatak” in which he describes the state of his mind. “Vairag Shatak” Granth was written in Brijj language by the great scholar Kavi Pandit Har Dyal Ji of Choonia Nagar. The Punjabi translation has been undertaken by Pandit Naryan Singh Gyani.

Kalgidhar Trust - Baru Sahib Time to cast your VOTES! Two videos from Baru Sahib produced by Babli Singh, Shemaroo find Nominations to Punjab's Biggest Awards - PTC Punjabi Music Awards 2014! Calling out loud for the visible form of the love and appreciations you showed at the time of release of these videos, Vidya Vichari and Guru Ki Kashi through your votes. Take time out and cast your vote here - http://goo.gl/AWL71D or Type the short code - BVN 6 and BNR 2 and SMS on 56060. Eg: Type sms BVN6 and send it on 56060." Let's make it BIG this time... Watch the videos here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-UHA44ASt60 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEjxGsqrvs8 Source - https://www.facebook.com/BaruSahibHP/photos/a.312356885474161.72764.294820193894497/689448821098297/?type=1&relevant_count=1

Sat-Bachan Jee, as long as we apply this principle to everyone (no ifs ands or buts). The constitution of the country is only one aspect of a country. A flag represents everything about the country, not just the constitution. The constitution is all just talk/writing, what really matters is the actions. Look at Indian Authorities and Agencies and Police and Politicians and people with money/power....how much of the constitution do they follow? Not very much.

"Koi Kisi ko Raaj Na dey hai, Jo Lai hai nij bal sey lai hai." - Guru Gobind Singh ji Khalsa Raj will come with the help of Shaheed Singhs and BrahmGyani Mahapursh. Western nations have biased standards when it comes to stand by the Sikhs. Sikhs live with freedom of expression and faith because that's guaranteed in their law. I can assure you they will never want to give any power to the Sikhs because when they do, they know their power will be gone. Guru Gobind Singh ji gave the Kingship to the Khalsa. Guru will grant the rule of the planet to the Khalsa - Its the destiny because of our Sacrifices

Why live in UK then? If i were you, i would have basic integrity, leave britian and stop living in entitlement, stop double dipping in british generous system. Do you realize, most sikh freedom fighters begged their way in canada, uk, usa around late 1980's time? Righty so for them and families. I don't think some of humble sikhs would agree with your statement at all as they were given immense help when they needed most and they are most grateful for it, they are actually quite proud to be canadian, us uk citizens. I personally know shahid singh- son, he got his citizenship, he was estatic and now have very national sense of canadian nationalism pride in him. He would totally disagree with your appoarch- jarri thali ch roti kahdi, usi chh ched.!!

Britain is generating too many tree hugging hippi Sikhs like you. If Guru Gobind Singh was around today your British Gov would acuse him of child abuse for sending his sons to battle. I have no pride in the British democratic system. You think you have rights to carry a Kirpan yet the moment you unsheathed it you would be behind bars. Is it any wonder why Sardars have been reduced to mere clowns?

Avtar95 veerji, I live in states. It's not the matter of that they don't know us. Who in California doesn't know about Sikhs. All lawmakers are aware of who Sikhs are. As pointed above uk knew the loyalty of Sikhs and yet they offered full service to indira Gandhi. Why? It is because they see different country with whom they can have trade, financial relationship. That is the power of having a different country. It is total naive to think that lawmakers are working for honest way or represent a lone outlier person. They may show that biut not in reality. Politics, whether local or international will only put their efforts for Sikhs ONLY if they get something in return. It is pure and simple but hard part is that our ppl are sleeping. Example: Sikhs of India are buying French car Renault duster in thousands even know that this country specifically targeted sikh turban in schools and in all public departments. Such is the pity condition of ours. Anyway we can go back and forth on this issue and ends up with hitting wall. So let's keep the word of sarbat khalsa of 1986 and I am sure that everybody knows the importance of sarbat khalsa. There will always be a minority who will disagree but we need not to put our energy in convincing them as that will be waste of our energy. However, we get to know the mindset of those who disagrees with something that panth agreed some 30 years ago. No offense to anyone.

What frustrates me is why do western Sikhs give democracy and a secular society such high regard? The political system instigated by Guru Har Gobind was not democratic and nor was it secular. Surely if there was to be a Khalistan it would be based on the same political system bestowed to us by Guru Ji.

Character of khalsa is ek dristh, sam drisht bhramgyani derived from sri sarbloh granth definition of khalsa-

Is this what its like in scotland?

Hey Dave... Thats Awesome man! Your soo Welcome! You should set up an account with SS... Alot better

A place where we can carry Kirpan with no hassle, A place where no one will shout ''Raghead'' as you walk the street, A place where no Sikh shrine will ever be desecrated, A place where police will not kill a Sikh in an ''encounter'' A place where secret cremations will never happen. A place where Justice will never sleep Where is this place ?, Its Khalistan and nowhere else.

Sant Baba Attar Singh ji Mustuane wale

VJKK VJKF hello Dave, of course you will. You will learn a lot and encounter a few that wont think it is possible, but you will meet so many suppotive individuals too. A beautiful journey awaits. I'm Welsh (first language is Welsh) and have been blessed with beautiful Sangat. There are a few Western Scottish sikhs out there too. I don't want to name names but prominet sikhs like Dashan Singh of Glasgow, there is also a Sikh of Scottish ancestry in Wolves his name is Eshwar Singh. So please don't worry wether you will be accepted by others. Concentrate on your Guru and the rest will fall into place. Take a step towards Guru and he will take a thousand towards you. Trully Blessed

http://tisarpanth.blogspot.in/2013/02/sri-bhagwat-geeta-of-guru-gobind-singh.html

C,mon we are supposed to do jaap of mool mantar & guru mantar only. Where from you got this nonsense idea?

Once Admins are online they will place you in quality control. Thanks for making the topic the (x)th time.

And you think regular Joe blow self proclaimed sikh any better?

Anyone who took history class during his college days would agree that having your own country would solve tons of problems. Politics is important in our dharam - Miri piri concept. Question one should ask: are you better off spirituality while being under undemocratic ruthless rulers? Or are you well off spirituality if your country charters are based on truly democratic rights? Khalsa raj and Khalistan is same and there is no difference between these two words.

I have not read Gyan Parbodh but I have studied other Banis by Guru’s Kirpa and I came to the irrefutable conclusion that Gurmat is unique and far above Vedas. Vedas are not revealed but Gurbani is. Vedas are stuck in maya but Gurbani is free from it. I have read works of Hindu scholars on Six Hindu Systems and while they are in variant with each other in terms of reality, knowledge, goal, moksha, creation and eternality they are all different fundamentally from Gurmat. Sure there are similarities to some extent but Gurmat by far exceeds them in presenting the absolute truth and remains unique. Vedas used to be three initially and much later a fourth one was added. At that time Vedas were nothing more than animal and human sacrifice, yantra/mantra tantrum, worshipping idols and numerous gods/goddesses and women having sex with horses etc. According to Swami Dharma Teertha, Upnishads were written by Kshatriyas to counter Brahmins but latter eventually won over the political supremacy and incorporated Upnishads with Vedas. Vedas advocating multi-god worship, absolute Nirgun, Omnipresent reality, prakriti and purusha being two eternal realities and having no God at all are all contradictory beliefs. So how can a serious student ever consider Vedas to possess the same essence as Gurbani? It is not possible. Picking and choosing one chapter alone does not justify it at all. Yet again you did not prove how the interpretation I provided is wrong. Just because there are three layers of Vedas as you claim, it doesn’t de facto prove me wrong. I believe Gurmat is superior to others and if this means bias to you then I am biased towards the truth. I cannot hold any other philosophy at par with the truth revealed in Gurbani. This doesn’t make me “hindu phobic”. Also, you only provided a dictionary definition of fascism. What does that prove? Absolutely nothing. I am not an authoritarian government nor a social organization and I am also not part of any. Singh Sabha was a religious revival organization that did not advocate politics at all. So how was it or I am fascist? What you need to prove is how I have elements of fascism in me which you have utterly failed in. It is easy to play the blame game but without providing any evidence you will end up running every time. I want to iterate although it may not carry any weight for you that I do not hate Hindus or their philosophies. I do not have anything against you personally. I simply oppose anti-Sikhi elements and individuals which you misconstrue as hateful. I do not wish to brainwash anyone. I only share the information I get from books written by gursikhs and no one is compelled to agree with me. Regardless, my mind stays peaceful with Naam.

Does this kirt exist in puratan(period:1690-1760) Shree Dasam Granth Saroops? or only a few selected ones written after that puratan period? Phokat Kabit is claimed as bani when it was not even found in Puratan saroops for example.

Barinderpal Singh (neo n30), without providing any hard evidence you cannot be taken seriously. And what is all the fuss about? That I posted a link to interpretation you find hard to swallow? Such hypocrisy and ironic considering that you believe Gurbani has unlimited meanings. The interpretation I wrote is based on my experience and why cant this be right? So far and in the past so many years not once have you provided any logical refutation. All you do is throw the name of Sant Ji but you know what, Sant Ji never spoke like you do and he always exhibited Gursikh qualities in his deed and thought. You are a black spot to true sampardaic traditions. If you feel I am wrong in Gurbani interpretation then be a man and refute it with reasoning. I am sure your nirgun/sargun, transcendence experience would have no problem in defeating limited puny grammar. You are taking one line out of the whole debate and putting it out of context. Hindus believe in Hanuman and Ganesha. Hanuman is a monkey God and Ganesha does ride a mouse according to Hinduism. How is this hatred? There is nothing insulting in calling spade a spade as you put it. And why are you keep harping over fascism? Do you really know what fascism is? I have asked for proofs multiple times but you havent been able to provide any so far. I guess lying is another one of your attributes. Then you get too personal over the old issue of me trying to get you banned. Believe me, if I wanted to ban you I would have and I had all the access. Your posts in this thread are a proof of the reasons. I am not afraid to debate you but I have grown up from childish bickering and am mature enough to debate according to the rules of logic which you do not know squat about. On your own forum you made a remark that you could get back on sikhsangat through the back door if you wanted but you did not want to go back. As soon as you found (through my revelation) that I had quit the moderating team, you literally begged through SunSingh for the moderation to be lifted. Little did you know that I still had access to the moderator forum at the time. What a man of word you are. Again I find it ironic that you scream about fascism on this forum yet run off to your own cave (forum) to discuss Indian Fascism article I wrote a while back. Not a single member of your forum has provided any evidence to refute Indian Fascism. You are all the same. When you have no evidence, you resort to personal attacks. Vitanda Vaad is all you know. It is a shame on all those who speak against Khalistan after all the suffering we have gone through. If a persons spirit doesnt get kindled after knowing the horrors of 1984, November genocide and how our women were dishonored in the streets and a decade long systematic liquidation, he/she is not a Sikh.

And the only way I guess you can uphold your twisted “traditional” views is by throwing insults and labeling others with derogatory terms without any shred of evidence. Speaks multitude on what great job sampardas are doing these days in imparting education and teaching logic which does not go beyond ad-hominem. One can only wonder what the “awakened” Taksalis would do with such an education. Follow the footsteps of Sant Ji or become modern day mahants who are hell bent on destroying every originality from Gurmat and assimilate it into Hinduism.

ਕਬੀਰ ਜੋਰੀ ਕੀਏ ਜੁਲਮੁ ਹੈ ਕਹਤਾ ਨਾਉ ਹਲਾਲੁ ॥ Kabeer, to use force is tyranny, even if you call it legal. ਦਫਤਰਿ ਲੇਖਾ ਮਾਂਗੀਐ ਤਬ ਹੋਇਗੋ ਕਉਨੁ ਹਵਾਲੁ ॥੧੮੭॥ When your account is called for in the Court of the Lord, what will your condition be then? ||187|| ਕਬੀਰ ਖੂਬੁ ਖਾਨਾ ਖੀਚਰੀ ਜਾ ਮਹਿ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਲੋਨੁ ॥ Kabeer, the dinner of beans and rice is excellent, if it is flavored with salt. ਹੇਰਾ ਰੋਟੀ ਕਾਰਨੇ ਗਲਾ ਕਟਾਵੈ ਕਉਨੁ ॥੧੮੮॥ Who would cut his throat, to have meat with his bread? ||188|| 99% of humans fail to put themselves in others' shoes and have empathy, compassion, treat others like we want to be treated, etc. The dairy and meat industries cannot exist without current conditions. The price of dairy and meat would go up through the roof if all cows/animals were fed organic grass/grains, were free-roaming, allowed to live full natural lives, etc. The price of dairy/meat products would go up more than 1000% and the demand would decrease at least 1000%, and therefore the industries and economy would collapse. The amount of land/resources needed for the animals and the amount of time it would take for animals to naturally reproduce would be too 'costly'. The only way these industries can exist as an industry, is if it is a factory system (like it currently is). Conveyer belts, production lines, cages, improper feeding, improper handling of animals, no compassion, etc. ਹੇਰਾ ਰੋਟੀ ਕਾਰਨੇ ਗਲਾ ਕਟਾਵੈ ਕਉਨੁ ॥੧੮੮॥ Who would cut his throat, to have meat with his bread? ||188||

Bhai Sahib, I am always reluctant to post on such topics because Sikhs are not mentally and spiritually equipped to deal with such subjects. Every jatha and group picks their best guy and elevates him to God’s perfection where he is never wrong and disagreement with him is seen as belittling and insulting him. This is why no matter how genuine the saroop may be, Sikhs will think of mool mantar and Raag Maala and call it authentic/unauthentic based on this alone. Instead of changing their own beliefs they will blame the saroop. They pay no attention to correcting printing errors in saroops or correcting the position of the mangals or looking at other subjects. All they care about is first paragraph and the last Ang like there exists nothing else in between. Very few Sikhs are genuinely interested in finding original saroops shedding their own beliefs and bias. Regarding original Damdami Bir Sahib – The picture posted is not from the original Bir. I believe the Bir was not lost during the great holocaust because only Giani Gian Singh introduced this theory without any evidence. This not new information. Most Sikhs just don't know about it. Prin. Harbhajan Singh, Giani Garja Singh and others have done research in this matter and they believed the original Bir still exists. We have seen original saroops being tampered with by Sikhs during Raag Maala debate and I do not wish the fate of Damdami Bir to be the same. We need to learn to be united despite our differences and only then can we make any progress.

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SriGuruGranthSahib Maharajh is full of Bairaag; Gurbaani emphasises the need for detachment, whilst remaining a part of society. The Granth "Vairaag Shatak", or any other Granth will never be on a par with SGGS. Vairaag Shatak gives beautiful examples of the torment caused by over indulgence, and the extreme attachment to materialism. Rajah Bharthari became tyaghi, prior to Baba Nanak coming to earth; hence Bharthari's methods are not completely in line with Gurmat. The bottom line, however, is that Raja Bharthari's vairaag teaches one the signifance and bliss of tyagh; if we take the Granth in the context of Gurbani, then we can benefit from that tremendously. "Vairaag Shatak", amongst many other sanatan Granths have been studied, in conjunction with SGGS Ji, in all the puratan Taksals, and still do so today. Nothing can ever replace SGGS, but the study of sanatan Granths can expand on the teachings contained therein. If my translations have caused any offence, then I apologise unreservedly; my intention is not to replace SGGS, in any way, but to gain a deeper understanding of the philosophy contained within. Thank you for taking the time to point out the error of my ways; at my age, I should not be using this forum, since it is, after all "voice of the youth". A very big heartfelt thanks to the Sangat, and the Admin for allowing to share my views. Waheguru....

What we need to do is encourage the 'Sikh themed film industry' to break away from the Bollywood model. Stop making everything, including serious issues, into musicals and start recording dialogue on location rather than in a studio later on which gives all movies from the sub-continent the sound experience of a very cheap dubbing of a very cheap 1970's European flick.

This is the upside down topsy turvy world which is India. Getting 'backward class' status is like winning the lottery. Get it, and your son and daughter is guaranteed a job. Get it, and your son and daughter is guaranteed a university place. Get it, and your son and daughter only needs to attain a lower grade in order to get a pass in exams. Without it, the status quo was that unemployment among jatts, including their graduates, was close to 90%. The urban classes who own the private businesses in Punjab don't give jobs to the jatts because they only give jobs among their own groups and the government civil service jobs were reserved for the backward classes. That, and that only, is why many jatts were agitating to get the 'status'. When you live in a corrupt, backward system, the only way to function is in corrupt backward ways.

ਗੋਬਿੰਦਗੀਤਾ - ਦੇਖੋ, ਕ੍ਰਿਸਨਲਾਲ. ਕ੍ਰਿਸਨਲਾਲ - ਕਾਸ਼ੀ ਨਿਵਾਸੀ ਪੰਡਿਤ ਹਰਿਲਾਲ ਦਾ ਭਾਈ, ਜੋ ਸ਼੍ਰੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਅਰਜਨ ਦੇਵ ਦਾ ਸਿੱਖ ਹੋਇਆ. ਦੇਖੋ, ਹਰਿਲਾਲ। ੨. ਇੱਕ ਕਵਿ, ਜਿਸ ਨੇ ਮਹਾਭਾਰਤ ਦਾ ਹਿੰਦੀ ਕਵਿਤਾ ਵਿੱਚ ਉਲਥਾ ਕੀਤਾ ਹੈ. ਇਸ ਨੇ ਸ਼੍ਰੀ ਮੁਖਵਾਕ ਪਾਤਸ਼ਾਹੀ ੧੦. ਸਿਰਲੇਖ ਹੇਠ ਭਗਵਤ ਗੀਤਾ ਦੇ ੧੮. ਅਧ੍ਯਾਯ ਲਿਖੇ ਹਨ, ਇਸ ਦਾ ਨਾਉਂ "ਗੋਬਿੰਦਗੀਤਾ" ਭੀ ਪ੍ਰਸਿੱਧ ਹੈ. ਪਰੰਤੂ ਇਸ ਦੀ ਕਵਿਤਾ ਤੋਂ ਸਾਫ ਹੈ ਕਿ ਇਹ ਰਚਨਾ ਦਸ਼ਮੇਸ਼ ਜੀ ਦੀ ਨਹੀਂ, ਕਿੰਤੂ ਕ੍ਰਿਸਨਲਾਲ ਦੀ ਹੈ. http://books.google.ca/books?id=gqIbJz7vMn0C&pg=PA129&lpg=PA129&dq=krishanlal+gobind+gita&source=bl&ots=fPI2BeTHYu&sig=yEH8ZWBq7BMzVfO6ZrAB_aFdoJE&hl=en&sa=X&ei=JL8tU-NPia7JAcubgLAP&ved=0CCkQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=krishanlal%20gobind%20gita&f=false KRISHAN LAL: Krishan Lal was one of the court poets of Guru Gobind Singh. He translated the Mahabharata into Hindu poetry. Gobind Gita which he attributed to Guru Gobind Singh was in all probability written by him. It contains 18 chapters of the Bhagvat Gita in the poetic style of Krishan Lal and not of the Guru.

Westboro church did so many hideous protests that no good human would ever do. Their actions were always against humanity.

Here is more information regarding gobind gita: http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?/topic/52957-gobind-gita/ http://www.sikhawareness.com/topic/12828-gobind-gita/

http://www.scribd.com/fullscreen/31560652?access_key=key-m5419ljfcyp2xzkxu8j&allow_share=true&escape=false&view_mode=scroll

You can't be born a Sikh. To say one is born a Sikh would be the same as saying Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji was born a Hindu which is just plain wrong. One is a Sikh by following Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji's hukam. Also you can't have more children than Vaheguru will allow you to have.

They have, but who listens to Nihungs nowdays anyway? All these preconceived notions of 'jhatka and sukha' being devilish has done quite a lot of harm to the Nihungs. Secondly the Singh-Sabha had this Bani removed from modern Dasam Granth Saroops, because according to them Guru Gobind Singh Ji could not have written it because it praised Krishna's dharmic actions. Today Gurbani is being twisted to insult and demean avatars. In fact avatars are an extrapolation of the divine will and assist us in understanding the perpetual battle between abibek and bibek. Ramblings of a Sikh blogspot on facebook, Sikhreality on facebook, Court Jewels of Guru Gobind Singh Ji and Tisarpanth on facebook probably has more information.

Dear brother, lighting lamps, is just a representation of wanting to change the darkness to light. Mahapurukhs tell us, that, Wahiguru Akal Purukh has the Light of countless suns and moons together, even then that light is no match to Wahiguru´s. That is the splendour and refulgence in Sach Khand. Wahiguru is Nam, is Shabad also, we can say it is a Superconscious energy,with all that implies. And as such, when His Darshan is had, we hear celestial blissful melodies, and have the chance to see His Akhand Jot. And all that is already inside each one of us, irrespective of caste, creed, class or mazab. The Bani in Anand Sahib says: Nam jin ke maan vaseeya, vajeh Shabad ganere. Means, when we concentrate our dhyan through Nam Simran, and have made that Nam "ajaapa" within us, we can hear that Shabad reverbating within us. Further on the bani says: Anter Jot, Niranter Bani, Sachay Sahib siu liv laee. This means, when the practice of Nam, has been firmly established in our minds, we then hear that Anhad Bani, and have the darshan of the Jot of Wahiguru, and this very practice, produces real love in our hearts, for the true Lord Wahiguru. Wahiguru has blessed us with this human form, so that we may light the Light of lights within us, and remove once and forever, the layers of agyanta and sins. It is by listening this Shabad, that our sins, our karmas are burnt. That is why, in Jap Ji Sahib, it is said: Suniyeh, dhook paap sabh naas. Listen to this Shabad, and all your sins, which are the cause of your sorrow and pain, shall be wiped away . So, the thing is we may light as many as lamps we want, even fill the whole universe with them if we want, and the sky becomes bright with that light. But if we do not light our interior with the Light of Nam, we shall continue wandering in the darkness. Our state now is, that if we close our eyes, we see darkness. And our aim should be, we should gather so much dhan of Nam within us, that if we close our eyes, we can see that Akhand Jot of Wahiguru Akal Purukh within us. It is our choice what we do, and how we use our lives. So let us be wise, and use our lives, to fill ourselves with His Light, to the extent, that we become a living Lamp, of His Light. And once this Light is lit within us, no wind can blow it, nor water extinguish it, neither here, nor in the next world, till the time comes, when our tiny little Lamp(soul), goes and merges in the huge Sun(Wahiguru), becoming one with it. P.S: dear son, you seem to be quite young, yet your thinking is pure and quite ahead of your age. Can we know how old are you?

We know Indian terrorist govt has killed millions of innocent people, and you think they will have a problem killing a few hundred people on the plane to malign innocent Sikhs. How come you are calling Babbar Khalsa a terrorist organization and not India a terrorist organization.

The CBC, BBC, NBC and other western Pro-India channels are not going to risk the ire of the Indian GOVT. No western channel will provide an impartial view on Khalistan and any issue related to it. They have partnerships with Indian channels for one. Every Khalistani is a terrorist according to Indian logic and her allies, Obviously if India were behind the bombing, then they would use a ''Sikh'' agent to malign the freedom movement.

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Upto Gurparsaad = Nirgun only Upto Hosi Bhi Sach = Nirgun and Sargun. Sargin Nirgun Nirankaar Sun Samadhi Aap - Sukhmani Sahib

That's the right explanation!! ^^