Leaderboard

Now I know how committee fights come about. The sense of rejection is too strong. Okay, I'm off to start my own Sikh forum... SikhPangat.com

The process of assimilation into the Khalsa Panth is going to be slow for them Bhenji. It isn't easy to just stop believing in everything which was once the bedrock of your existence. Give them time to adjust. We should rejoice at the return of wayward sons and daughters.

I want Mehtab Singh jee back. The forum needs him

...and when the opportunity presents itself, I shall usurp Mod Kira and assume the kursi of Lord Mod all for myself. Yes, that is what I shall do... Oops, I was only meant to think the above, not type it out. Darn.

Mod Kira and his taskmaster MisterrSingh? I like that idea.

Why don't you all try contacting Sikh channel, sangat tv and Akaal channel for that matter. We did also give some suggestions but directly to them to give more kids oriented programmes. Lets see.

No one here is being anti-Guru, and I would be really, really shocked if anyone in this thread is an agent. Our enemies want us to engage in this behaviour of accusing each other, Sarkaara have been playing these games with us for decades now, and we're just playing right into their hands. See that both sides have love for Sikhi. I don't believe anyone is lying. One side however make be mistaken, but not purposely lying. Stop trying to force each other into calling a Gursikh a liar with questions like "So you're saying so and so lied?!" Grow up.

I'll tell you 3 of the main things the Sikh Channels are doing wrong, i.e putting off the young Sikhs : Stop having dramatic music over the news stories. This is a Bollywood / Indian news invention because the average Indian can't concentrate on news unless there is a music score accompanying it telling him how he should be feeling about the news story. The Sikh channels in the west should realise that they should not be dumbing we Sikhs down to that same level. We're more than capable of following a news story without a soundtrack. Stop doing siftah of yourselves all the time. Every single time they interview anyone they always have this question: "The Sikh Channel . sangat Tv / Akal Tv are doing a dastar day / march on downing street / camp in italy etc etc, what do you have to say about what we're doing ? Would you're not agree that we're really brilliant and are doing a great thing ? We're really really brilliant arn't we ? " For once, whenever they're showing a kirtan programme or a gurdwara somewhere, how about for once telling us where they actually are. A simple caption on screen saying, for example, Gurdwara Singh Sabha, Vincenza, Italia. Thats all we ask for. Just tell us what we're looking at. If you're showing a programme that was recorded at an earlier date, so is obviously not Live, do NOT put a caption up on screen saying 'D-Live', i.e delayed live. That means nothing and is frankly an insult to our intelligence. If its not live its simply not live. Don't try and dress it up as a nonsence 'D-Live' programme. 'D-Live' is the stupidest idiotic concept ever. Find the man who first suggested the 'D-Live' idea at the weekly board meeting and slap him. Whenever, in future, any announcement is beiing made from any Gurdwara or elsewhere about an upcoming programme, give the microphone to that one person making the announcement, keep the camera shot on him, and tell the 132 other people that have crowded all around him in order to be in the TV camera shot to get lost. Understand that there is a probably a limit to how many times the sangat at large can watch and listen to 3 or 4 old men talking boringly about the same subjects over and over and over again. Understand that we probably reached our limit about 5 years ago and its just getting silly now. Get more Italian born Kaurs on. And Singhs. But mostly Kaurs. In fact forget the Singhs. Just the Kaurs. I like the way they talk and could listen to them all day.

Lol come on guys, don't take any of the "tough kids" and their threats on here serious.

..

Veer, Mehtab Singh is a good Singh. its not easy being an admin. Being an admin one has to put their personal feelings aside and remain neutral yet make sure the forum rules are being followed.

Jokes aside, this forum is a microcosm of why modern day Sikhi is so fractured. We're meant to be the future generations on whose shoulders change will arrive. If anything, we're just as bad as those who've come before us. I hope there's a gupt horde of blessed Sikhs free of partisanship and ties to holy men of all denominations, lol.

Aww don't cry, I'll make you admin

I'll register SikhPanga.com, far more interesting and mod free.

Mods have taken a leaf out of the SGPC rule book.

You're keen. Not sure I can trust someone so eager to be party to my machevellian shenanigans. I'll have to keep an eye on you...

:cool2: Don't forget to appoint me as your next taskmaster or as your secretary :biggrin2: You will need a secretary to keep your thoughts s e c r e t for you :excited:

Yeah but there is separate issue about so many references to meat eating, bhang consumption etc. in a lot of old Sikh manuscripts. That's not me trying to justify it, but pretending these things don't exist is like burying ones head in the sand. I don't think Sikh history is as clean cut as some people like to make out today. Suffice to say that it appears as if certain behaviours and thinking of SOME Singhs in the past was different to today, for whatever reason. But yes, it's sad that people try and use this today to justify recreational intoxication.

I, for one, welcome our new mod overlord. I'd like to remind you that as a trusted forum personality I could be helpful in rounding up others to toil in the underground langar kitchens.

He made a grave mistake but anyone can be forgiven after a fitting punishment right?

:yay: I vote for Kira :yay: :yay:

i think namdharis are integral part of our panth.

I used to have loadsa Sikh books published by a company called 'DTF'. I think they're based on the Soho Rd, Brum. Thats who I thought he was. Thats why I was usually so nice to him. I thought he was the major Sikh book publisher. I thought he'd come in handy when I finally decide to write a book. I'm gutted. :angry2:

I've heard the other side say the same about non-akjs e.g. their mind deceived them, they are lost in maya and etc. Both sides are just as bad as each other. I’ll let you guys continue your pitiful debating.

Lol, I don't care what you think of me....you're clearly only trying to put me down no matter how much I try and promote ekta and go against your divisive attitude. And my sympathies are not skewed at all. Same with InderjitS. We are on two opposite sides of one topic...but that doesn't mean we're opposite to eachother overall. Overall we are very much on the same side. And you don't seem to understand that both sides have love for Gurbani. But you're too closed minded to realise that. Let me break it down for you: Pro-Ragmala Group: They have love for Sikhi and Gurbani. They believe that Ragmala is Gurbani and so they don't want Ragmala to be removed or challenged because in their mind that is changing/challenging Guru Granth Sahib Jee and is absolutely unacceptable. Anti-Ragmala Group: They have love for Sikhi and Gurbani. They believe that Ragmala is not Gurbani and so they want Ragmala to be removed because in their mind adding Ragmala is changing Guru Granth Sahib Jee and is absolutely unacceptable. DON'T YOU SEE? BOTH SIDES HAVE PIAAR FOR SIKHI AND GURU GRANTH SAHIB JEE....THEY BOTH WANT AUTHENTICITY OF GURU GRANTH SAHIB JEE TO REMAIN. DON'T BE BLIND WITH YOUR BIAS. That is why at this point in time, everyone has the option of whether to do Bhog before or after Ragmala. At this point in time, it's the best middle ground. Sikhs have much bigger issues to deal with.

There's a sort of irony in all this. The older Generation push younger Sikhs towards Sikhism. Which is good, but when the younger Sikhs point out inconsistencies and wrong doings in the older generation, their suddenly considered naive idiots. Shocking.

Lol, it appears to have escaped you that in spite of all your talk of us causing divisions, there wasn't even an argument on this thread until YOU piped in!

No, Jacfsingh2 and I commented after. Someone making threatening remarks to a woman behind his computer screen really is just a loser, don't think we need to worry about his 'threatening' comments. However, he should go under moderation.

How about some screenshots then bud? Easy to make claims.

Main borth pashthordan India biah kar ke Simran. Sachi Italian kudi naal byar karna si. Sareh den bai'keh ohdia'n Italian galla'n sunni jania si nice relax ho'keh. Mai'n kamm'tho ah ke kaina si "Dilraj di mummy, ah suhnu Italian bol ke sunn'ah please darling". Unlike jedhi hon di wife ah, whose phone calls I ignore when I'm at work, jidho'n vi meri Italian wife ne menu phone karni si at work mai'n natt'keh phone chakna si ohdi soni Italian baaj sunnan leh. Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh. A man can but dream of what could have been. :yay:

Genie jee, there is not one incident in history of Sikhs forcibly converting anyone. If there was, you think we would have remained such a small minority? Even in the Sikh heartland of central Punjab our people were the smallest of the three communities. Even the Hindus out numbered the Sikhs 2 to 1. Problem is even though the Raaj was ours but we had no Parchar, otherwise it was the most ideal time for doing Parchar. So many Muslims and Hindus of Punjab could have been brought into the faith.

Cos punjabi pendus are running the channels. They dont realise that 80% of the Sikh population are monay/shajdhari's yet they catering to punjabi speaking kesdhari /amrtidhari Sikhs neglecting a huge population of Sikhs. They also dont bring any interesting shows or shows that reflect modern life of your average Sikh professional. They concentrate on punjabi centric or indian centric issues. The only time the youth get involved and are interested in Sikh channels is when things are kicking off about Khalistan or Muslim conversion /. sexual predter grooming gangs issue. Apart from that its as boring as watching paint dry. Most religious channels have this problem they offer boring content. The best content that keeps Sikh audiences engaged is when taboo topics of contraversial subjects are discussed and there is a diverse group of people having their opinions aired. When its just 2-3 guys on the sofa talking or gossiping no body got time for that they all have better things to do.

During the Guru's times it wasnt allowed to convert people by force. But Banda singh bahadur set the precident forcing muslims to convert or face the choices non-muslims had to choice when he and his army destoryed town after town occupied by islamic authorities and destorying mughul rule bit by bit. As for partition well we all know what happened they started it and Sikhs finished it even though they outnumbered us by huge ratio the Sikh kill rate was massive against muslims compared to their small number. Just like how the kill rate of muslims was high amoung Sikhs when they finally established Sikh rule, those arrogent fundamentalist jihadi type muslims who resisted Sikh rule were despatched swiftly by the sword or forced to flee. The Sikh empire consisted of roughly 70% muslim population and 20% Sikhs and 10% Hindu's. Kashmir and Afghanistan and other non-punjab lands that Sikhs had liberated had a high concentration of muslim populations and when they come under the authority of the Sikh army and government the demographics ment that Sikhs had to chose between causing genocide agaisnt Muslims and ensure Sikh only nation empire or let muslims live as per Sikh teachings and have a potential problem in the future. And as per Sikh teachings that believes in egaliterianism and pularism Muslims were allowed to remain muslims and practise their faith as long as they did not harm the interest of Sikh raj and the Sikh population. Had Sikhs chose to ignore their faiths teachings like Banda Singh bahadhur and other military Sikh leaders did then muslims would have been forced to convert on mass or wiped out or forced to migrate to iran/rabia which would have been the ideal situation for future geo-political scenerios. The reason why muslims force people to embrace Islam since its inception is mainly to do with geo-political demographical strength its nothing to do with spirituality its all about numbers. History tells us the bigger numbers you have the more land you are able to conquer and control.

There isn't enough Coverage about what good we're accomplishing. I feel any time some good movement takes place, THEY need to contact Sikh Channel. It should be the other way around. Bap Surat Singh Ji was heavy coverage from what I know (I don't really watch Sikh Channel all that much) but it seems to have died down. Their becoming more and more like typical media channels. They stir the pot once or twice but when the fire dies they move on. Regarding the Youth there is clearly not enough coverage. They seem to drag any sort of person on and let them spread their vichaar. There are many gems in the Sikh Community, experts in many different fields, it would be great if they asked them to come onto the show and help people make sense of certain things. I'm not saying our Community is illiterate and uneducated but we're all human, some things may take time to sink in. Another thing that I feel they should do more of is Sikh Bani Santhiya, Katha and deviating away from the same area of History everyone seems to cover. Our Guru Sahib's accomplished so much in the world, words can't express it. But our History didn't end when Guru Gobind Singh Ji passed on the Guru Gaddhi to Guru Granth Sahib Ji. We also need to work to stop mixing Sikhism and Punjabism together. Some matrimonial shows start using castes to refer to certain individuals. What a massive act of defiance against Guru Sahib who completely destroyed the Caste System. There was also a while back, Sikh award show? I understand the sentiments behind it but it would much better just to bring attention to the work rather than giving them something for it. There was a category for Seva too, I was under the impression that Seva was meant to be Selfless service, Surely giving an award to something such as Seva is sort of disrespectful. When Sikh Channel first came out, I was very excited. But it's done what most media channels seem to do. Become slightly deterred from it's main goals.

I think I might also be DTF.

Sgpc a group of mafia thugs

ban gaddar e kom parkash chand badal and fukre kom sukhbir badal. bhai balbir singh is a great kirtani

Hindutva and the RSS are a direct threat to Sikhi. They prop up Deras, undermine all our efforts for self-determination, and relentlessly try to assimilate our faith into theirs. Dealing with them should be very high up on the Panth's list of priorities, I assure you.

You're beginning to annoy me now Proactive. There is nothing anyone can say or do to you that will stop your heart and mind being fillled with blind, raging, vicious and vitriolic hate against all Muslims. The emphasis on the word 'all' there because you really don't care what their nationality or status is or even whether they are children, you simply detest evey last one of them. Thats something for you and your conscience to sort out together. I've done my best to help you but its not my problem so I'm walking away. My only hope is that you don't pass down any of this hatred to your children.

In before sheikh your booty pastes his classic islam rant in here

Aren't you the same Chatanga who makes huge posts about saving Gurdwaras in Pak and saving old manuscripts but when it comes to action you run away with your tail between your legs?

If Takhat jathedaars do this right thing, they should first take away Faqr e Qaum from Badal and then ban him also from using panthic stages for his personal gains - Most of you know that he goes to the panth dokhis and provide them security. Jafemaar ji do you have the guts to do one more right thing?? Why is the stick always used for general public and not politicians like him? This is hypocrisy people and not duty.

Are people not allowed to have views that differ from Damdami Taksal on Sikhsangat.com? I didn't know that.

Come on now Chatanga. If DTF is Sheikhyerbooty then he must be the cleverest, smartest genius in the world. For one man to be able create an alter ego that is totally different, writes totally different, thinks totally different, spells totally different, has totally different viewpoints, he must be a very very clever man indeed, and lets be honest here, there's nothing clever about sheikhyerbooty.

Who said its "the only one" ? :nono: I'm sure there are others but I've personally been to the one that Sri Guru Anged Dev ji built at the place he got married in in district jullunder, at Mao Sahib. At that place, Guru ji expressed so much love for the local Muslims who had shown him so much love as he arrived to get married, that he insisted a Mosque be built within the historic Gurdwara compound itself. It still stands today and the surrounding villages are still majority Muslim as Guru ji proclaimed them 'his beloved muslims' and thus they were left untouched during the horrors of partition. Question is then, Proactive, all the horrible things you're saying about this man in the news that built a mosque.....Is that the same way you feel about Guru ji ?

Guru Ki Maseet. When Hargobind Sahib Ji was anointed the sixth guru of the Sikhs he asked Baba Buddha Ji, an eminent Sikh to bring forth two swords. These Guru Sahib Ji put on as symbols of spiritual (miri) and temporal (piri) authority. Guru Hargobind Sahib Ji is known as ‘miri piri thay malik’, Lord of miri piri. Guru Hargobind Sahib Ji built the Akal Takhat, the throne of the Almighty, opposite the Harmindar Sahib (Golden temple), again this was a sign of bringing together spiritual and temporal powers. In December, 1634 Guru Hargobind Sahib fought a fierce battle against Mughal forces near the river Beas, although heavily outnumbered Guru Ji was victorious. Guru Sahib Ji decided to stay for a while, and soon a settlement grew up. The settlement expanded into a town which became known as Sri Hargobindpur (-pur, being a suffix for place of). As the conflict with the Mughals was intensifying the towns defences were fortified. In fact, these fortifications were so solid that the original city walls and many buildings within are still visible today throughout Sri Hargobindpur Residents of all faiths flocked to the Guru and perceived themselves as heirs to the sixth Guru’s desire to found a secure and secular home on the banks of the Beas. The Sikhs built themselves a Gurdwara (Sikh temple) but the local Muslims did not have the capacity to build themselves a place of worship. They came to the Guru and asked him for help. The All Knowing Guru was equally comfortable with Muslim faqirs and Hindu sadhus and saw all people with one benevolent gaze. Guru Sahib Ji ordered his Sikhs to start construction of a maseet (mosque). The maseet was duly completed and handed over to the Muslims. With the turmoil of the partitioning of India in 1947, the mosque fell into a state of neglect and disrepair. In time the care of the masset fell into the hands of a group a Nihang Singhs who installed the Sikh scriptures Guru Granth Sahib. For many years, the mosque was maintained by the Nihangs. In February 8th, 2003 a “Memorandum of Understanding” (MoU) was signed by Baba Kirtan Singh the chief of the Nihangs, the Sikh caretakers of the mosque, and the Punjab Waqf Board. It was Baba Kirtan Singhs desire that Muslims perform their prayers at the mosque which was gifted to them. As per the wishes of Baba Kirtan Singh, five saplings were planted in the names of the Sikh Gurus. Dr Mohammad Rizwanul Haque, Punjab Waqf Board Administrator, described the MoU as an international event which would pave the way for strengthening communal harmony in the country. The mosque was in a state of disrepair and work began on its restoration by a group of Sikhs and Muslims in a unique manifestation of India's multi-religious society. Sikhs offered their labour, Muslim masons repaired the walls and an all-woman team of restorers led by Ms Gurmeet Kaur Rai lent its expertise. The entire village, and even those from the surrounding areas, answered Rai's call for clearing the earth around the shrine. Hundreds of school children and Nihangs did the spadework. Today the mosque stands elevated. "We will now try and remove all later additions, like cement, plaster and white-wash from the brick structure, and then apply lime paste plaster, which will allow the building to breathe," said Rai. The work was finally completed on March 23rd, 2004. ''The performance of Muslim religious prayers in the mosque after 55 years would be recorded in history as an event when Sikhs showed so much magnanimity towards Muslims,'' said Dr Mohammed Rizwanul Haque. In a similar event a year ago Sikhs of Chahar Mazra village in Ropar District built a mosque for their Muslim neighbours. Sant Varyam Singh, who heads Vishwa Gurumat spiritual mission in the adjacent Ratwara Sahib village, built the mosque for the Muslims of the area. The first prayers were offered in March last year. After the prayers there were heart-warning scenes of celebrations and Muslims embracing their Sikh brethren. The Guru’s civic plan reflected this understanding of the concept of God having multiple names but being one entity as the town includes gurdwaras, temples and a mosque. Even today, the people of Sri Hargobindpur visit all these places frequently and freely, regardless of their religious affiliations.

Isnt sikh-muslim unity a good thing ? Its a known fact that GOI does not like sikh-muslim unity.

The English translation is wrong as the one in punjabi below clearly states that God has created life in the stones and rocks and is nourishing it. the word 'meh' from the line sail mathar meh means inside.... inside the rocks and stones. The meaning that he used rocks and stones to create beings is completely wrong and needs to be corrected.

Maybe these two pangti's will help point you in the right direction. Ang 322 - Sri Guru Arjan Dev Ji Those who chant the Lord`s Name with their tongues and hear it with their ears are saved, O my friend. rasnaa uchrai har sarvanee sunai so uDhrai mitaa. Ang 19 - Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji. O mind, swim across, by focusing your consciousness on the Shabad. man ray sabad tarahu chit laa-ay.