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We are the do-gooder boy scouts. I think historically 99.9 per cent of the time we never got involved in the skirmishes between other groups. But 0.1 per cent time we did (probably at the behest of one of the groups) is what gets amplified. It's basically a narrative that needs to be stamped out. The subcontinent people have always had a habit making things that happens 0.1 per cent of the time as a regular occurance. The people have a habit of embellishing and exaggerating things.

We are a divided kaum, one group is busy with doing langar here and there and other group is busy in kaam/mauj /party and among them is very few who raises legimate issue and tries to stop anti sikhi activities like inter religion marriages in gurdwara and raising awareness regarding forced conversion into xtian but this group is such a small that it doesn't create much impact in the internet age. That's where I don't like quantity vs quality debate we need numbers if we had numbers like muslims, and hindus even if among them like 1% would be true to panth still that would count to 10 to 15 million people and this is a big group in social media age and these people can shape narratives .

How many speedballs did she do beforehand?

It is at the extremes where our kaum is divided. The majority of the silent majority falls in the middle. It is like a bell curve. The extremes seem to be the most loud. They amplify everything.

There's that pathological desire to always be seen as hero / Jedi. If the Gujjus were shouting slogans about Sikhs, any watching Muslims would be sniggering to themselves and NOT getting involved. We're a bunch of umbrella wielding langar dispensers.

Leicester has a very large Gujurati community (both Hindu and Muslim) The muslims were probably likely Gujju muslims. If it were Pakistani muslims I suspect it would have been a different story.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ke Fateh Sangat Ji, he was banned for a little back, but has popped back up! Instagram's community guidelines definitely need updating. We all must keep on reporting this account Bhul Chuk Maaf

Singh Ji, if calling Instagram Support is a viable option, I will do so. We need to get rid of accounts like this, which has an overall aim to tarnish Sikhi. Gurfateh Ji

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ke Fateh I don’t know much about the previous prime minister of India, manmohan Singh. Was he a good prime minister? Did he do good for Sikhs in India or was he the same as the common Indian politician?

He was just a front for the Italian Sonia Maino so there wasn't much he could do of his own accord. He's a quiet and highly educated man, a combination that isn't appreciated by the dumb Indian masses. They would rather have a loudmouth illiterate tea boy as their leader. Sikhs aren't any better in this regard.

he was a useful tool for the gandhis ....bowing down to In*dra and making him apologize lol Not bad as capital aloo Why hasn't he said anything about the farmers?! Hes an economists too

He was by Indian standards a "good" PM. He didn't cause ripples, and that is fine for India and us. I have come across positive reviews from Punjab politicians about some of the benevolent moves he made for Punjab. Obviously being a puppet PM you can’t expect much. There was a ridiculous effort for atonement on behalf of the gandhis and congress for 84 riots, which was not well received. The irony was not lost on the public that the gandhis were making a sikh PM apologize for riots that killed sikhs. For a country like India, having a weak timid useless PM is a blessing in disguise for minorities.

He was from INC (indian national congress). From what I've heard, he was like a common Indian politician. I don't think he did anything bad, better than Modi, but he didn't do anything good for Sikhs.

Waheguru Ji Ka Jhalsa, Waheugru Ji Ke Fateh Sangat Ji, is this following article true that guru anak dev ji wrote the first guru granth sahib ji, even though it was composed after guru nanak dev ji also, it also states that this guru granth sahib ji has the secrets of making gold ink. Here is a link to the article https://english.newstracklive.com/news/guru-granth-sahib-written-by-guru-nanak-dev-ji-is-secured-in-hoshangabad-mc23-nu-1047559-1.html Gurfateh

I’ve heard sant baba mani Singh ji wanted to write Guru Granth Sahib Ji in 24 karat gold and keep guru Ji at Harmandir Sahib, he sadly passed away in 2008.

Have we turned into alchemists now

“Some jatha baba” show some respect. That “some jatha baba” has done more for sikhi than you’ll ever do in 10 lifetimes

No, even Guru Arjan only wrote the first Adi Granth sahib and the complete final Adi Guru Granth Sahib was written by Guru Gobind Singh there is some jatha baba I will not mention, who said he knew how the secret to make gold.

The article contradicts itself - Curious about the gold ink technique - has anyone ever tried it?

Here is another article

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ke Fateh, Has anybody or anybody you know ever had any sort of Darshan of Shaheed Singhs, such as in dream form or physical form darshan. One darshan story of a Shaheed Singh I know is that my Naani’s sons had cut their hair, shaheed singhs from our family lineage would tell her to convince her son to become Gursikh again, the son also started seeing these shaheed singhs in their dreams and he then made the decision to take Amrit again, guru kirpa he is now amritdhari. Please share some stories if you have some. Gurfateh

Sant Giani Gurbachan Singh Ji Khalsa Bhindran Wale once said that "If a thirsty person does not get clean water to drink, they will drink dirty water.". This was said alluding to why people follow fake deras/baabe etc. And in this case it would probably apply here. Because she wasn't presented correctly with Sikhi, she went to get her spiritual fulfillment somewhere else...

spirituality is not about changing your religion or hate others. surely she got her facts wrong but if she finding a peace of mind changing it then let her free. I am sure many has done it in the past. our duty is to be a learner and try living with Guru sahib's teaching.

quite simply she hasn't cracked a dictionary in her life , let alone a basic sikhi knowledge book, the funniest thing is her claim about the ignorance of sikh folk , if I remember correctly pakistani muslims and muslim countries generally have higher rates of illiteracy than other places especially amongst the women . Revert: 1. a. To go back to a former condition, practice, subject, or belief: a meadow reverting to forest; a reformed shoplifter reverting to old habits; a speaker reverting to her opening remarks. b. To resume using something that has been disused: had to revert to the typewriter when the computer failed. 2. Law To be returned to the former owner or to the former owner's heirs. Used of money or property. 3. Genetics To undergo reversion. 4. Chiefly South Asian To reply. v.tr. 1. To cause to go back to a former condition, practice, subject, or belief: "The doctor was reverted to the rank of Assistant Surgeon" (George Orwell). 2. Law To return (an estate, for example) to the grantor or the grantor's heirs or successor. POlytheism : Noun 1. polytheism - belief in multiple Gods theism - the doctrine or belief in the existence of a God or gods tritheism - (Christianity) the heretical belief that the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit are three separate gods monotheism - belief in a single God If I remember correctly Allah name was taken from pagan name for the Head God of the preislamic pantheon who had three daughters also mentioned in Quran (of course introduced to persuade pagan tribes but later discarded as the work of Satan, pity the wife beating and sexual slavery verses were not similarly disposed of)

then she was carted off to God knows where to be abused and reviled by her new faith ... shortsighted and foolish ; jumping into the fire with both eyes open

This kind of stuff is nothing new. People convert all the time. And tbh I'm ok with that. If you independently read and learn about another religion and want to change your core beliefs at heart, then good for you, go for it. But, if you brainwash, trick, coerce or for your religion on others (as some Muslims and Christians have done and do), that's where I have a problem. Ideological differences and debates are fine ?. No need to crap on someone else's beliefs...

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ke Fateh Has anybody on this forum had any sort of darshan from a higher spiritual being? I understand some people may not want to share their darshan story so no pressure ?? Bhul Chuk Maaf Gurfateh

I have this on a vinyl record, was very predominant in 80s in the UK

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ke Fateh Does anybody know any online shops and stores that sell shasttar and deliver in the uk? thanks Ji

https://www.sikh24.com/2020/06/15/hate-crimes-in-us-incident-of-attack-on-elder-sikh-man-comes-to-fore/#.XueNkEVKjIU A elder sikh man has been attacked in a racial crime. The attacker had shouted, "Go back to your own country", and had ran him over with his car. The police are not accepting this as a racial or hate crime.

They don’t want Sikhs to create their own area in America. It’s pretty rough over there (the Wild West).

Have some sense when you write about our Gurus. How dare you use words like”jack” in context of talking about Guru Gobind Singh..

Can you show compassion to us all by just leaving this site NOW!

Oh okay, so you've just justified your own inaction and uselessness by convincing yourself that these things can't be prevented and so we shouldn't do anything about them....... If such predators can't be stopped, as a community we at least need to make their schemes as difficult as damn possible, not lay down and make it easy for them. Do you mean 'our' girls? If so, you are wrong, there have been groups of Sikhs trying to help with and highlight this issue from before you were born. They've been vilified and attacked from outside and within as vigilantis, trouble-makers and racists and whatnot. Yet many haven't given up. The fact that we've got to this point where people are increasingly talking about this matter (when most of the scared people in our quom have been sweeping it under a rug, or burying their heads in the sand to it like ostriches for decades - a bit like you actually), hasn't stopped them. It's actually their success that scares the establishment so much, who'd rather ignore these things (like they have been) for some twisted notion of social cohesion (I presume). I say twisted because they have no qualms about knowingly sacrificing thousands of girls (whilst looking the other way) just so there isn't a headache for them to deal with. In the meanwhile the unchecked abusers have taken their evil to industrial scales in towns all over England. Truth is that I believe you have no faith in yourself to deal with these evil people, and you're probably right, you probably haven't got it in you. But don't then play down the issue because it brings your own cowardice and inaction to the foreground.

You know some people see all these problems in far away lands that others have created but are completely blind to serious insidious threats under their very own noses. Visa vis the Syrian situation, I was dead set against the meddling Blair and Bush initiated in the middle east. Many of us knew that it would seriously bolster fundamentalism - and my oh my, how that has turned out to be true. The other fact is that many, if not most people, are cowards and very conformist. It shouldn't surprise us that some morons decide to take the easy root of appearing to be concerned about problems thousands and thousands of miles away, because they probably haven't got the strength and courage to face what we are facing here in britain, because it involves a real palpable threat. A physical threat to yourself, and to vulnerable girls of your own community around you. It involves confronting seriously warped and violent groups of people as well as elements of the establishment that have facilitated this abuse for many decades (here I mean the government, police and social services as well parts of the media). If someone was genuinely concerned about these problems in far far away countries, you'd had thought that they would have at least had the initiative to try and deal with the issues under their noses before maybe going over there to help - but no. They are actually useless on all fronts. And not only that, they actually act as adjuncts to the very evil we are dealing with through their deflections. What if it was your Sikh sister, daughter or niece being targeted by violent groomers. Would certain people in our community be so flippant about it then? I doubt it.

imagine you are standing on a battlefield , someone is running towards you with a sword in their hand , meanwhile you see a battle going on a hill further away . question: Is it wiser to handle the immediate proximate danger or stand like a lemon thinking about the battle on the hill ?

Where is this quote from? So he wasn't a Sikh afterall?

Ok. Yes, how ironic! When this was first discussed on this forum last year, one of the members on here, from Huddersfield, mentioned that he was amritdhari as well.

Where did you get this quote from?

Punjabi Faces The Axe In Britain SARIKA SHARMA [Taken from Sikhchic] http://www.sikhchic.com/current_events/punjabi_faces_the_axe_in_britain Exam boards in the United Kingdom plan to drop qualifications in Punjabi along with other languages. While the issue has worried scholars, it has become a political issue in the current British election season. Punjabi is the third most spoken language in the country after English and Polish according to 2011 census. If exam boards AQA and OCR go ahead as planned and discontinue GCSE's (secondary school level) and A level (college level) exams, foreign languages such as Polish, Punjabi, Gujarati, Bengali, Modern Hebrew, Turkish and Portuguese could face the axe. Currently, Punjabi is an exam option that students can take at GCSE/A-level. Usually it is not offered at schools, but in many cases, like in Newcastle, one can take the exam at a gurdwara. Generally, a GCSE/A-level has to be offered officially through a certified exam board, main ones being AQA and OCR. Punjabi scholars are wary of the development. Dr Navtej Kaur Purewal, Deputy Director of South Asia Institute, SOAS University of London, says the move is a sign of the times. "Modern languages are still widely associated with European languages such as German and French, while languages such as Punjabi are given lesser status and viewed as community languages. The irony is that in the 2011 Census, Punjabi was the 3rd most widely spoken language in the UK, having dropped from being 2nd in the 2001 Census due to the rise of Polish which has overtaken Punjabi," she says. Navtej insists that this warrants more support of such languages and recognition of their presence in the UK. Even as she somewhere blames it on a trend amongst aspirational South Asian parents and students to value English more than languages of ancestry, she says the decline in uptake of Punjabi and other South Asian languages at GCSE and A level should be addressed by the examinations system, not viewed as a sign of a dwindling market. Founder member of the Punjab Research Group, Prof Eleanor Nessbit, who is also professor emeritus University of Warwick, says it is sad that in a country in which the majority are monoglot English-users, members of bi- and multi-lingual minorities are not protesting more loudly at the reported disappearance of public examinations in their heritage languages. "If families, schools and community organizations, such as gurdwaras, had pulled together to ensure that children were studying their 'mother-tongues', the sheer number of enrolments for GCSE (General Certificate of Secondary Education) examinations would have ensured their survival to that level and possibly, beyond this, to A level. Sadly, many young British South Asians never get beyond a very limited fluency in spoken Gujarati, Punjabi, etc.," says she who studied Hindi for O and A level. Prof Eleanor too says it is regrettable that language classes and qualifications that could have helped bridge communities are under threat. Dr Shinder Singh Thandi, principal lecturer in economics at Coventry University in the UK, says the issue of termination of some minority languages from the curriculum was announced by the department of education quite a while ago and some Punjabi teachers had raised the issue with their gurdwaras to follow up but nothing was done. "It is worth pointing out that many Punjabi children only do Punjabi up to GCSE level and very few continue to the Advanced level. So in a way there is not going to be a significant change as most Punjabi children had already chosen to opt out of it," he says and adds that the culling of some languages does not surprise him as there wasn't much uptake and cost of offering them were high. Also students aspiring to go to University focus on only 3 Advanced Level subjects which are regarded highly by universities in their admission criteria and these are usually science subjects and some core subjects such as economics and history. Meanwhile, the Labour party has given it political colour. Punjabi MP from Ealing Southall, Virendra Sharma wrote to Tristram Hunt, shadow secretary of state for education, to raise awareness of the terrible threat the Tory government was posing to language A level qualifications. He wrote: "This Tory government has chaotically changed the curriculum at a time when languages are needed most by British business. Communities thrive in Britain where people are bi-lingual, providing a link to their past while embracing modern Britain." Following this, Hunt last week, spoke to the House of Commons and called for the education secretary to resolve the mess. Dr Shinder Singh says it is not surprising that this should be raised as a political issue by the Labour Party as they are facing a challenge in holding on to the ethnic minority, especially Punjabi community votes. THE CONSEQUENCE Dr Navtej Kaur says that even if the languages will be withdrawn from the curriculum, these languages will remain spoken and taught at home and in large numbers without the literacy and expertise which a formalized system or learning can and has provided. "At present, most students taking the exams in Punjabi are doing so outside of school in any case, for instance in community centres or gurdwaras. We should be mobilizing for these languages to be recognized by schools, especially with considerable South Asian populations, to have better infrastructure. Instead, they are withdrawing them altogether. It will be a tremendous loss if these languages disappear from the curriculum," she says. [Courtesy: Times of India. Edited for sikhchic.com] April 8, 2015

I never did a Punjabi GCSE, i learnt old skool, at the Gurdwara in Punjabi school with a chapal and i haven't forgotten since but on a serious note, I wish the writer of that article had done his research, there are no plans to phase out GSCE's like Punjabi, they are being modified to tie in with new government regulations, I hate stuff like this, if you look at the source of the article is the Times Of India, hardly a relevant source when it come's to matters in the UK.

As a chap in my mid-30's and a holder of GCSE punjabi, this news saddens me. I have been out of touch with punjabi teaching in gurdwara's or in my case, a junior school in Hounslow Heath in the 90's on Wednesday evenings. However, I had no idea that demand had dipped? I presumed demand was on the rise? Especially with the recent influx of Afghan Sikhs?

"It's like when anything good is done by apnay we run to label it 'Sikh' when apnay do gundh like this we slyly start trying to shake off responsibility by making it a 'Panjabi' or 'Indian' issue". Very good point. I know this isn't the topic in hand at the moment, but I noticed this last week when the Sikh Channel were discussing "Sikhs with alcohol issues". One panel member interrupted and said "Sikhs dont drink, these guys are just punjabi's with a sikh background" - or words to that effect! I thought it was very comical to be honest. Sikhs have a huge alcohol dependency problem, but to brush it off as "these guys aren't Sikh, so we'll happily wash our hands off the problem" certainly isn't even beginning to ackowledge to resolve the problem.

Exactly, kanjar khanna was mentioned on the first page of this thread! It's come full circle now!

Unbreakable "They won, we lost" You and I have been reading the wrong history books old chap. What did "they" win and what did we "lose" exactly? There are many martial races throughout the world, but no one mentions them today because none of them fought in every campaign and theatre of war during the two world wars as the Sikhs did. That is why today Sikhs are spread from Hong Kong to London, Vancouver to Auckland and Borneo to Perth. That is why today, Sikhs are regarded as the most loyal of men because they didn't partake in the so-called 'Indian Mutiny' of 1857. That is why the Houses of Parliament, Sir Winston Churchill said : "...British people are highly indebted and obliged to Sikhs for a long time. I know that within this century we needed their help twice and they did help us very well. As a result of their timely help, we are today able to live with honour, dignity, and independence. In the war, they fought and died for us, wearing the turbans. At that time we were not adamant that they should wear safety helmets because we knew that they are not going to wear them anyways and we would be deprived of their help. At that time due to our miserable and poor situation, we did not force it on them to wear safety helmets, why should we force it now? Rather, we should now respect their traditions and by granting this legitimate concession, win their applaud." That was of course in relation to the motorcycle helmet debate. If we were to say that it was a "master and slave relationship", as you suggest, then the British could have well said no to the amendment of the motorcycle crash helmet law and insisted upon the Sikhs to wear the helmet rather than the turban. Afterall, the wars were over by that stage and the need to recruit Sikhs has ceased. Furthermore, public opinion at the time had swayed with the notion that "when in Rome, do as the Romans do". Politically, it was far more sensible to go with the public concensus. I don't believe for one second that it was a "master and slave relationship" at all. The British didn't hesitate to court martial any Sikh who so much as clipped their beards when in the army. Taking amrit was a pre-requisite to enlist. We can thank them for upholding such high ideals and taking them across the seven seas so that mankind can be aware of the valour and gallantry of such fine men. Master and Slave? A soldier's soldier more like.

Aftab Jafferjee QC, prosecuting: "It is common ground in this case that he tried to have sex with her, by getting into her bed. Both she and he were to describe it as attempted rape". Gagandip's legal team (not Mundill's) describe it as "attempted rape". Gagandeep described it as "attempted rape". Mundill described it as "attempted rape". No body challenged Mr Jafferjee QC. If your own legal team accuse you of attempted rape and this is not challenged by your own family in the law courts, neither do you make any attempt to sack your barrister, then one has to accept it to be true.

Dalsingh, It might be rubbish, but I don't make the law of the land, neither do you. Whether you like it or not, whether I like it or not, but the law is the law.