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Tarmalaey ?


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hunji singh-khalsa ji i was lucky enough to go this summer to moga and meet the 88 that had passed the gurus test and as confirmed they do get darshan of vaheguru: as described by one of the sant/siphais: he goes here i stand and you stand opposite me but before i see your akaar (physical body) i first see vaheguru. But they are still training in terms that they still have to master taking there sookham (unseen) body out of there astool akaar (physical body) and then they will be tested by the punj to see if they were successful with in the siphai training. The siphai training is meant to be difficult as at night you do duty and during the day you are out in the world doing your daily duties as per hukum from the guru - discussed in a previous post

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mr khalsa singh...hows it goin?? u do like going against gurbani don't u?? forget coming to ur house, so many of us mentioned to meet again at the gurdwara but never mind.... maybe it's too late for u.. grin.gif

well firstly meeting up would be easier as talking to u at the moment is a mission and i think i need god's strength to carry on.. :WW: .u twist sooo much mr singh...where did i threaten u? i was simplying stating the facts? even the truth which it seems u can't handle. u question soo much on limited knowledge and thats not very nice is it mr singh??

we're made soo many valid points backed wiv gurbani and sitting here hr's on end, explaining to u makes me think how people have started to question gurbani. its sad, because as a brother i feel obliged to tell u so u 2 benefit. and if u don't agree then fair enuf as some people do question gurbani as urself....use ur phone a baba request and talk to him again...maybe i can have his number? so i too can benefit from his teachings? would u do that? so i can benefit?

now in relation to the phyiscal threats...u make me laugh....i'm a peaceful singh and wouldn't even think of such things as urself...i'll be happy if u can give me ur address so i can talk to u, and clear up alot of things?

and please don't relate me or the sangat who enjoy coming to swindon as brainwashed sheep as not a gursikh thing to say...or maybe thats the way u are...ur baba should at least tell u how to talk to another sikh.

so mr singh? the address?? i do not threaten and i haven't threaten so please don't make cheeky comments...

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Some questions to the Swindon lot:

1)How can someone prove if they've had Darshan of Waheguru?

2) You have taken a few tuks from Guru Sahib, without reading the whole Shabad - in many cases the rest of the Shabad refutes what you say.

3)You speak of Sooksham and Asthool Sareers, but what of the Atma?

4)Where do you believe Waheguru is?

5)Where did your Jatha get its Jugtian from?

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1) very interesting questions raised. Because as discussed before it is the duty of the punj pyara to give darshan, as for proof well with gurus kirpa i am doing the practical and when, with gurus kirpa, i have achieved sant status as per gurbani i will go before the punj and ask for this gift of amrit and will act as proof that the punj do give you darshan. Until then I put my faith in gurbani that the the guru roop punj payara do give you darshan of saach. In short it is more as an act of faith as I am not there myself. But 88 sant/siphais saying they all see the same thing, they are all from different parts of india it is a little bit difficult to doubt it.

2) if you could put the whole shabad up then we can discuss it in greater depth. As then we wont be distorting gurus bani to suit ourselves.

3) sookam akaar = atam, in gurbani this is referred to as 'atam' 'akaal moorat' 'satpurkh'

4) Vaheguru is all prevading he is everywhere, there is not one place he isnt, when we reach higher states through gurmanter abhyaas gurbani says this is what we shall achieve: andaar baar iko jana, inside and out we see him as one.

But if you are referring to meet him then we must goto an astaan known as 'sehaj ghaar' - this is where vaheguru resides

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matheen, your 5th point the jugtis: there are 3 jugtis for simran when we are in gyaan di avastaa - after that it is dhyaan di avastaa but as i am not that far we shall discuss gyaan first.

The jugtis all come from satguru siri guru granth sahib jis bani, in anand sahib we read every day: har jeeo goofa andar rakha vaaja paun vijya nau dwaar pargat keeh dasma gupt rikhya, now this is the practical jugti of doing swaas giraas simran. If we ask the guru what do we concentrate on while doing swaas giraas simran guru ji says: dhun mehi dhyaa dhyaan mehi junya gurmukh akath kathani, guru nanak dev jis bhagati is very easy - just listen to your own voice.

As for rom rom simran, i cant tell you that as i havent learnt the jugti myself, although i know the theory of rom rom and why we do it but the subject is very long - first we should do saas/swaas (samething different wording) giraas simran before rom rom.

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wrt waiting for amrit, this did happen back in the days soo we cant really debate over this issue.

How can we not debate over this issue. They are not saying wait a year or two get your rehit perfect. They are saying you cannot take amrit unless you have opened your dasam duaar. This is not sikhi, in sikhi amrit is the beggining you do not have to be able to do anything before you take amrit other than stay in rehit and know your banis.

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i made this post before:

I think people are a tad confused here, this isn't a cult, a dera, or a baba kind of thing. I will outline what the gurdwara stand for as per gurbani: satgur satsangat chitsaal hai jit thai har gun sikha. The sangat is a school where you are taught the 'guns' of vaheguru. Gurbani again tells us who earns the status of the saadh sangat: satsangat kaasi junai jitah eko naam vikania. That is the satsangat where there is vichaar of one naam, then we ask gurbani guru what is this vichaar of naam and guru ji tells us: akath katha har naam hai. This akath katha is also given the status of Naam as per gurbani. Then we ask gurbani guru how can we get laha of this akath katha and gurbani guru tells us: akather hovo milo meri bhai doobda door karo liv lai. gurbani is saying to his learners to meet together, let go of your 'doobda' - which is hate, anger, gossip and walk on the liv path - which is also in gurbani called sant marg as per gurbani: sant ka marg dharm ki pauri ko vaad bhaagi bhaya.

How can we not debate over this issue. They are not saying wait a year or two get your rehit perfect. They are saying you cannot take amrit unless you have opened your dasam duaar. This is not sikhi, in sikhi amrit is the beggining you do not have to be able to do anything before you take amrit other than stay in rehit and know your banis.

^^

kh@ls@ ji gurbani talks about rehit as well: dasam dwaar rehit kara trinpaav sojhi pae - which means if u keep the rehit of the 10sm dwaar then you will also come to know the rehit in this world (trinpaav = trigun maya), if you know your banis that is great, but gurbani teaches us how to meet god, just from our nitnem we are taught everyday what our mool is, how everything was made, why are we here, how do we get back to vaheguru. then in jaap sahib we are told all openly about vaheguru.

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i have done sangat with tarmala sikhs from india,

they are using yogi jugtis to open dasam duar which the sidhs have done

using their jugtis you start hearing sounds and seeing lights this is what they call anhad shabad or darshan of akaal. it actually isnt and they are stuck because the still have panj chor within them because they stop reciting waheguru naam and only focus on these sounds which again isnt sikhi.

they dont believe in guru ji as "god" but only as gian and they dont really believe seva can get you anywhere spiritually which is a big part of sikhi

if you spend time doing their courses you may have some spiritual experiences (lights and sounds!) but you wont eradicate punj chor and will be stuck taking ras from lights and sounds which are nothing really in sikhi spirituality

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