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Cross Roads Gurdwara Coventry . Akj, Babbar Or Tarmala ?


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The fact is it doesn't matter how many supporters they got. Are you blind, the youtube video shows them performing a ritual.

Well , I have followed whats happening in Swindon and Moga and on Sikh channel and I have even been to some of their samagams in Swindon. I have had views from some very knowledgable people both in In

before you post get your facts straight anyone can post lies and mis-information.

10. Again in that interview on sikh channel Tarmala explained that they don't give Brahm Gyani certificate. They just certify that people have done 1 or two years course their and have had "Shabad-Surat da mel" (merging into the lord). Well I though only Brahm Gyanis merge into Lord. So those statements are self contradicting again.

Thank you for the clarification.

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Watching things like this are a bit odd and intimidating to me. I've never ever seen anything like this in a Gurdwara i've been to in my life. To be honest not seen anything like this in 20 or so years, is this a new concept?

Saying that the Evengelicals,and Jehovahs witnesses, Sufis and so on do this singing, chanting, moving about like mad, some say it puts them in a trance...? I do not see any mention of such things occuring the the Darbars of any of the Dhan Guru Sahibs?

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waheguru ji ka khalsa

waheguru ji ki fateh

In order to clear up the constant lies spread around, Bhai Sahib stated on the Sikh Channel interview once again that they do not issue any Brahm Gian degrees. The students at the university at the end of the Gurmat course get a certificate just stating what they did there. Also they don't call themselves a Brahm Giani, they go by the the title of Bhai and preach Gurmat. By the way many AKJ members were at the Gurdwara and have travelled from afar to attend the England Samagam. Bhai Amolak Singh Ji of the AKJ did Kirtan at Gurdwara Prabh Milne Ka Chao at Moga, other AKJ members have actually done the course there. So hopefully this clears up any confusion and misinformation being spread by sources with their own agendas, and hopefully this post isn't deleted by anyone wanting lies to be spread. As for the one poster who raised the question about that Katha of the last test, if you had listened to the topic carefully you would have heard how Gurbani says Bhai Lehna Ji became Sri Guru Angad Dev Ji.

Harminder Singh I can answer some of your questions:

3. No they explain the 5 vikaar's are Sookham invisible not physical, but as in Gurbani our mind is in a Yudh with them, or wrestling match, many examples are given in Gurbani.

4. The drawings aren't to explain what happens in the brain, the drawings are used to help understand the different points that Guru Sahib mentions in Gurbani. As for the Takhts you didn't understand or you spoke to someone who didn't understand, Kesgarh Sahib, Anandpur Sahib, Akal Takht, Harmandar Sahib are outside but also inside and are referenced by their names and maps.

5. The colors are mentioned in Gurbani in Terms of elements, each color is for each element and are encountered when doing Simran, and Parkash is mentioned as well in Gurbani. Giani Thakur Singh Ji mentions different colors during Simran in one of his Kathas as well.

6. No what you see in the video does not mean those people have met the Lord, again someone may have confused you.

7. I watched the same interview from California via the net, Bhai Sahib explained that when someone learns to die by the Shabad as in Gurbani they don't necessarily have awareness of what is happening with clothes as they are emmersing their Surti in the Shabad. That doesn't mean that the Dastar coming off is natural. They had mentioned however that ever since Parchar was started there was no incident like this, and many people connected to different parties and Sants who have been sending various people to the Gurdwara may have been looking to purposely cause mischief. It wasn't a contradiction.

8. There are 3 types of Katha mentioned in Gurbani and this is Akath Katha, many may have read similar Katha by other Gurmuhks such as Baba Jawala Singh Ji and Baba Eshar Singh Ji Rara Sahib Wale, infact in Baba Eshar Singh Ji's book Eshwar Amuliya Laal (available online) Akath Katha is mentioned, it is simply the Wichaar of Gurmat according to Gurbani about how we became separated from the Lord and are to meet the Lord again.

9. Brahm Gyan is the knowledge Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji gives us, the centre is a School for this knowledge thus is called Brahm Gyan University. It is not marketing it is just a name.

10. Bhai Sahib explained in the interview they don't give Brahm Gian degrees, the certificate is for students who have practiced the teachings of Gurbani there at the Gurdwara. Brahm Gianis are only created by the Lord. They didn't say that the people are certified to have Shabad Surti Da mel, that is the aim of doing abhyaas there at the school, you misunderstood, the certificate itself only states that the Gurmukh practiced Nam Drir, Gurmantar Drir, and Sach Drir for a year.

12. Many Gurmukhs mention this happening in many Jathas. This technique is mentioned in Gurbani.

13. There is a difference between criticizing ie Nindya and telling the Truth. Nindya is due for punishment as per Gurbani.

It is better to ask a Gurmukh directly to clear up misunderstanding, like Bhai Ajit Singh Ji, or Bhai Sahib, everyone is willing to write on the net but are just to shy to talk in person, they were even taking calls during the interview but not many people phoned.

Well , I have followed whats happening in Swindon and Moga and on Sikh channel and I have even been to some of their samagams in Swindon. I have had views from some very knowledgable people both in India and UK and here is what I have to say. I will not get into any argument and will not write on this thread again.

1. They do many things right in their gurdwaras. Nitnem, Langar, respect for SGGS, belief in amrit, simran, kirtan.

2. Ajit Singh in Swindon doesn't even know very basic lines of gurbani( some of daily nitnem), I have seen him struggle to say those lines without looking at something. This leads me to beleive he doesn't gve that much emphasis on Gurbani .

3. They use concepts like panj vikaar( kaam, krodh, lobh ,moh ahankaar), soul etc and give them almost physical manifestations as if these things are physical people fighting you within your mind. So the concept of "Yudh" in that video may be understood in this light. I don't thin its correct interpretation of gurbani or gurmat.

4. They draw some pictures on whiteboard in the katha and explain what each part of brain is doing.For example "trikuti" is this particular area in head, "Bhavsagar" is this and "Narayan" is this. There are many more which they explain. They even tell that five takhts of sikhs are actually present within your head also. So again they have attached physical areas mind to concepts like bhavsagar. Again I don't think its right in light of gurmat.

5. I have myself heard in a diwan where Ajit Singh explained that when you reach this stage you see this colour, when you reach this stage you see this colour. Again I don't think its gurmat.

6. Gurbani says "Kotan mein Nanak kou Narayan je cheet" meaning there is one n millions who truely has merged with Lord but with this group , according to number of people that shout, cry aloud, lie down, get into fits in the diwan, there are quite a few who have merged with Lord (as you can see in that video).

7. In Tarmala's interview on sikh channel when he was asked about people getting into sort of fits and dastaars going off in that Video, he first explained how it is natural when one merges into Lord but in the same answer he then said that people who's Dastaars go off are mischiefs from other groups who want to defame them. It was very clearly self contradictory.

8. What is the need to call their katha "Akath Katha". True meaning ofthese words is that Katha which can not be said in words. I think its a marketing or branding technique.

9. What is the need to call their centre Brahm Gyan University. It again marketing or branding technique.

10. Again in that interview on sikh channel Tarmala explained that they don't give Brahm Gyani certificate. They just certify that people have done 1 or two years course their and have had "Shabad-Surat da mel" (merging into the lord). Well I though only Brahm Gyanis merge into Lord. So those statements are self contradicting again.

11. Since they do certain things ( as mentioned above) according to Gurmat and quote from Gurbani quite a lot, and do simran, its very hard for people with no or limited knowledge of sikhi to understand what they are getting into.

12. I have attended lot of AKJ samagams and their simran and people going into "vairaag" is totally different . They don't have few dozen of people in same room having reached "dasam duar".

13. Tarmala said in that interview that people should do simran instead of criticising them because when you criticise someone you criticise God in him. Well with that logic we should not critizise what happened in "kahan Dhesian" recently where people were dancing infront of SGGS and with that logic anybody can keep doing anything in front of SGGS.

14. I don't know why sikh channel wants to get into something like this, but as someone said it could very well be their lack of knowledge about thisgroup combined for their need of funds.

15. I think coventry gurdwara committe needs to explain why they support them.

Please forgive if my understanding is wrong or if I have hurt someone.

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the certificate itself only states that the Gurmukh practiced Nam Drir, Gurmantar Drir, and Sach Drir for a year.

Getting a certificate saying that a person has been practising those specific things is just a potentially massive ego booster, explain where on earth is the Gurmath in that?

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waheguru ji ka khalsa

waheguru ji ki fateh

The 30 acres of land you are talking isn't 30 acres and isn't owned by Bhai Sahib, it is owned by the Sarb Sukh Charitable Trust which has members across the US, Canada, England, and Punjab.

There was no Akal Takht Statement during Jathedar Ranjit Singh's time, there was however at the behest of a anti Naam Simran group during Jathedar Vedanti's time, but the Akal Takht later retracted that when Bhai Sahib went there to explain how Naam Simran is done with techniques in Gurbani. Since then Bhai Sahib has done Katha a number of times at the Akal Takht. Every year they go with the graduating batch to Harmandar Sahib and Akal Takht and seek Guru Sahib's blessings before the graduates go on to do Parchaar in the outside world.

how about the 30 acres of land - tarmalla owns in india??

how about the akal takht statement made against him in around bhai ranjit singh jathedars time?

waheguru ji ka khalsa

waheguru ji ki fateh

Hau Apraadhi Ji, the certificate isn't a ego booster it is meant as designation that a student has graduated from the University and are trained Parchaaraks. This is similar to what alot of Gurmat Schools do, an example is the Missionary Colleges as they also give certificates upon course completion to the Parchaaraks. This way no Katha Vaachak can claim to have graduated from the University without a certificate.

Getting a certificate saying that a person has been practising those specific things is just a potentially massive ego booster, explain where on earth is the Gurmath in that?

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1. trained parcharaks -- where are they at the moment - where are they serving - in the outside world -- ??

2. How can he claim to open das m duaar of people without the need or any talk of controlling the other open 9 duars of an individual??

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Tarmala head was once in AKJ just like normal member in his early years. Later on he left jatha. Most people says that he got kicked out because of some reasons but not sure which one. Anyway, this group is dodgy after i had conversation with one of main organisers in my area:

1. They only concentrate on Simran.

2. They actually do nitnem but do not believe in it as they say simran is more important than nitnem/kirtan.

3. They scare new people by drawing pictures of people getting killed after life - Hell concept.

4. Their rumor pr are the best. Ex: This little girl seen heaven & so on.

5. Their katha is totally based on their own concepts.

6. Most of their saamagams are only on their own version katha and simran. Amateur Kids do kirtan just for 15 mins.

7. They reject Dasam Granth completely - heard in their katha once few years ago.

In India they are known as Tarmala group (Tarmaley). In the west they are well known as Dasam Duar Group (Dasam Duaraey). However most of them are very nice people with good heart and hard workers but like bholay bhalay jatts, they are extremely naive and are stuck in the web of tarmala lies & deceit.

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That video is just embarrasing. I have never heard of any concept that says people should skake their heads around and move left and right etc..when doing Naam Simram. The people in the video make it look like a scene from a mental hospital with their actions, some people lying on the floor kicking his legs around, other peoples dastaars coming off and wildly shaking their hair around. etc..

Surely Naam Simaram requires conentration, stillness of the mind focus of mental energy. Not acting like a mental patient or a drug addict....

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the question still beggars beileif that why in the hell our committee in teh UK are hosting this guy including the akj affiliated Gurdwara at cross roads coventry??

have we totally lost it??

thanks for somem panthic veers actually put up videos on this fraudster

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the question still beggars beileif that why in the hell our committee in teh UK are hosting this guy including the akj affiliated Gurdwara at cross roads coventry??

have we totally lost it??

thanks for somem panthic veers actually put up videos on this fraudster

Mandela says blame the committee.

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