Can Sikhs be friendly with Muslims?

[Not2Cool2Argue]

13 minutes ago, MisterrSingh said:

"Save Sikhs, Kill non-Sikhs" vs "The light of God resides in everyone."

Im not sure i understand the question right. 

But the contradiction is easily resolved. Just because the light of God resides in someone doesn't mean we cant kill them. Lots of ppl questioned Guruji like you are supposed to be saintly, holy so why are u indulging in wealth, power and violence. But God kills as well. He is destroyer etc.

And the pangti I quoted was actually Maanas Ki Jaat Sabhe Ekai Pehchanbo. Which means all humans are equal, in which case yeah we shouldn't be killing nonsikhs lol. 

But the Save Sikhs pangti can only apply in war situations. In which case the true sikhs would ofcourse be on the side of Right. In which case nonsikhs would always be wrong. Also Chaupai sahib says multiple times like save my sikhs and sewaks. Sewaks are non sikh people who follow gurusahib. So everyone on the good side is to be saved, because sikh should be synonymous with good. Also it is a prayer, not a command. A prayer to God to save the sikhs

Or it applies internally, like save the Sikh qualities and destroy nonsikhs ones. Or more succinctly, kill the nonsikh in me, keep the sikh alive. 

Yeah lots of handwaving explanations. But like the other religions, its only fair to have a few violent/questionable quotes 

But in reality, all of dasam needs a big background and context explanation along with metaphorical/allegorical literary analysis to really avoid the pitfalls. I think thats why these granths were kinda kept hidden in sampardas and deras so only accessible with a knowledgeable gursikh there to guide one. Not really for the grihisti, everyday man. I tried reading Chritropakhyan was really graphic in parts. But listening to Principle Harbhajan Singh, a scholar of Dasam Granth explaining the metaphors etc really helps make it palatable. 

[MisterrSingh]

5 minutes ago, Not2Cool2Argue said:

Im not sure i understand the question right. 

But the contradiction is easily resolved. Just because the light of God resides in someone doesn't mean we cant kill them. Lots of ppl questioned Guruji like you are supposed to be saintly, holy so why are u indulging in wealth, power and violence. But God kills as well. He is destroyer etc.

And the pangti I quoted was actually Maanas Ki Jaat Sabhe Ekai Pehchanbo. Which means all humans are equal, in which case yeah we shouldn't be killing nonsikhs lol. 

But the Save Sikhs pangti can only apply in war situations. In which case the true sikhs would ofcourse be on the side of Right. Or it applies internally, like save the Sikh qualities and destroy nonsikhs ones. Or more succinctly, kill the nonsikh in me, keep the sikh alive. 

Yeah lots of handwaving explanations. But like the other religions, its only fair to have a few violent/questionable quotes 

But in reality, all of dasam needs a big background and context explanation along with metaphorical/allegorical literary analysis to really avoid the pitfalls. I think thats why these granths were kinda kept hidden in sampardas and deras so only accessible with a knowledgeable gursikh there to guide one. Not really for the grihisti, everyday man. I tried reading Chritropakhyan was really graphic in parts. But listening to Principle Harbhajan Singh, a scholar of Dasam Granth explaining the metaphors etc really helps make it palatable. 

Lots of things to think over. Thanks.

[MisterrSingh]

One of the most amusing and simultaneously paradoxical things I find about Muslims is how (some of them) have a certain quality of grounded authenticity.  I can't help but compare these types of Muslims to Sikhs in the West, and it does make me quite sad that here we have people that we're told belong to an illogical, bloodthirsty, intolerant religion, yet they possess certain qualities that someone such as myself looks for in what I would consider to be "good" or respectable people. I think there's something to be said for a religion such as Islam being a force that regulates people's behaviour and their mentalities to the point where they think twice about how they behave and conduct themselves. Our lot just don't have that manner of being even if our religion does prescribe certain behavioural standards, because the "fear" to follow those norms just isn't there for Sikhs.

[Ranjeet01]

7 minutes ago, MisterrSingh said:

One of the most amusing and simultaneously paradoxical things I find about Muslims is how (some of them) have a certain quality of grounded authenticity.  I can't help but compare these types of Muslims to Sikhs in the West, and it does make me quite sad that here we have people that we're told belong to an illogical, bloodthirsty, intolerant religion, yet they possess certain qualities that someone such as myself looks for in what I would consider to be "good" or respectable people. I think there's something to be said for a religion such as Islam being a force that regulates people's behaviour and their mentalities to the point where they think twice about how they behave and conduct themselves. Our lot just don't have that manner of being even if our religion does prescribe certain behavioural standards, because the "fear" to follow those norms just isn't there for Sikhs.

That is because their religion is really a political doctrine.

The empire came first then the religion.

A lot of it is grounded in worldly matters.

A lot of our quam have become a bit wishy washy to say the least. The Sat1 person who posts here is very much an example of this.

[MisterrSingh]

5 minutes ago, Ranjeet01 said:

That is because their religion is really a political doctrine.

The empire came first then the religion.

A lot of it is grounded in worldly matters.

A lot of our quam have become a bit wishy washy to say the least. The Sat1 person who posts here is very much an example of this.

I think it also speaks volumes about my authoritarian tendencies.

[GurjantGnostic]

On 5/15/2020 at 1:34 PM, Not2Cool2Argue said:

I think that was meant metaphorically as in destroy the worship of mosques mandars from the minds of sikhs.

Because, some clueless Sikh was saying Zafarnama is not the writing of GGSJ as it says I am an idol destroyer and my mission it to eradicate idols.

Guruji ofc never destroyed a single idol AFAIK. But its true nonetheless. From the houses and minds of Sikhs, idol worship has been eradicated. 

Or it could be a prophecy about the future or not even a prophecy. But the mission of Khalsa. That would be a cool national anthem for Khalistan

So just wanted to clarify before antiDasam forces came out again. They also dont like Chaupai Sahib because it says Sikh Ubhaar Asikh Sangaro. Save the sikhs and kill the nonsikhs. They say someone who said Manav Ki Jot Sabhai Ekai Pehchaanbo cant have written that. 

Such black and white thinking...

Could that be translated as "Protect the Sikh and kill those who are against the Sikh"?

Not so much anyone not a Sikh but anyone acting against Sikh Paanth?

[Not2Cool2Argue]

On 5/16/2020 at 5:53 PM, GurjantGnostic said:

Could that be translated as "Protect the Sikh and kill those who are against the Sikh"?

Not so much anyone not a Sikh but anyone acting against Sikh Paanth?

Thats a good point. 

[Premi5]

As a Sikh, looking at this thread, I think we should move on from this topic. It seems to have been exhausted. 

As with the other thread on Hindus, I think we all know that you can never completely trust /trust much in groups of people from other faiths who do not necessarily consider you their equal, or believe you are inferior

Most of us here are from England or North America, where I think the topic is less relevant. 

Is it time to lock the thread?

[ChardikalaUK]

3 hours ago, Premi5 said:

As a Sikh, looking at this thread, I think we should move on from this topic. It seems to have been exhausted. 

As with the other thread on Hindus, I think we all know that you can never completely trust /trust much in groups of people from other faiths who do not necessarily consider you their equal, or believe you are inferior

Most of us here are from England or North America, where I think the topic is less relevant. 

Is it time to lock the thread?

Less relevant? It's extremely relevant.

Sikhs in Punjab have little to no contact with muslims as there are very few there.

Here in the UK they try to attack our girls with grooming gangs, convert vulnerable people in our community.

This needs to be discussed.

[jkvlondon]

On 5/17/2020 at 1:53 AM, GurjantGnostic said:

Could that be translated as "Protect the Sikh and kill those who are against the Sikh"?

Not so much anyone not a Sikh but anyone acting against Sikh Paanth?

asikh is anyone who doesn't have the qualities of sikhi i.e. following a path that leads to Akal Purakh , we know that Jagat Guru ji teaches the other faiths how to be sikhs within their traditions if they do not follow Guru ji 's advice they are asikh.