Predatory Christianity destroying Punjab and Sikhi

[proudkaur21]

24 minutes ago, dallysingh101 said:

I think a large part of this is because they sell their wares really well, and I've seen a lot of people convert to these religions over the years. A lot of kaalay convert because they detest their history with white christians (and it is weird how they ignore their slavery by arabs, but I think it may be down to jumping on a perceived lesser evil, and also a side that they feel can give white supremacy a run for it's money). Plus if someone is christian, it's easier to convert to islam because they have overlap in terms of their mythology (same prophet lineages, angels etc).    Also, for guys who come from criminal backgrounds, when they convert, they can get to still use their violent criminal tendencies to attack nonbelievers and be a good sullah. When it used to get confrontational in Southall in Vasaikhi with fundamental sullay, the brown sullay would always bring kalaay converts to hide behind (who were obviously criminal types before converting).  

Also the church can be vibrant and fun from what I've heard, and this can be attractive to S. asians who are used to sombre deliveries of katha. 

And let's be 100% frank, finding a partner is something that makes A LOT of people convert. 

Welcoming vibes count for a lot.

Well, there is no excuse for this. SGPC has a massive budget. They aren't even bothering, and what they attempt is 'more of the same' that didn't even work previously.  

Pendus cultural allergy to reading doesn't help either. A lot of us here in the diaspora have got our moorings/knowledge in this way, so we've circumvented any rot.  

Pendus don't have a strong identity outside of a caste one. 

Honestly how do these people get elected to sgpc? If western born sikhs become members of sgpc it would be so much better. So many of us here know the issues we face and can take decisions to combat them. We need intelligent people elected to the sgpc not uneducated fools. But i feel like the people who are elected to the sgpc are all under indian govt and that is why they dont do anything for sikhs. We are indirectly under their control.

[GurjantGnostic]

1 minute ago, proudkaur21 said:

Honestly how do these people get elected to sgpc? If western born sikhs become members of sgpc it would be so much better. So many of us here know the issues we face and can take decisions to combat them. We need intelligent people elected to the sgpc not uneducated fools. But i feel like the people who are elected to the sgpc are all under indian govt and that is why they dont do anything for sikhs. We are indirectly under their control.

Democracy is both inherently flawed and for sale. It's not Purtan Gursikhi. 

[proudkaur21]

Just now, GurjantGnostic said:

Democracy is both inherently flawed and for sale. It's not Purtan Gursikhi. 

I was just thinking the other day how democracy in uneducated countries always backfires on minorities because the uneducated majority will always decide who will rule everyone. I mean if you have 1 intelligent person and 99 fools those 99 fools will decide the fate of everyone. How is this good in any way?

[dallysingh101]

Just now, proudkaur21 said:

Honestly how do these people get elected to sgpc? If western born sikhs become members of sgpc it would be so much better. So many of us here know the issues we face and can take decisions to combat them. We need intelligent people elected to the sgpc not uneducated fools. But i feel like the people who are lected to the sgpc are all under indian govt and that is why they dont do anything for sikhs. We are indirectly under their control.

It's because they are sociopaths and are unable to think about anything but themselves. Organisations like that make sure they keep out people who are not like them (like the police in the UK), so I don't even think western born Sikhs should even bother. Even if SGPC did hire someone from out of the usual spectrum, it would just be tokenism to placate people, and they'd probably make sure the new guy doesn't rock the boat too much.   

We have to start parallel ground level movements. I think this has already started. How far we can go, time will tell. I think we need to focus on regional strength where we have a few numbers. But it is hard to do, because people don't want to confront ugly truths about the community. As you alluded too, they'd rather live in the fantasy world of being a strong warrior (without even being anything like one), and have a stronger caste identity to a dharmic one. 

It's not worth getting despondent, bibian can play a massive role in how they raise their kids so that they aren't like the previous lot.  

[MisterrSingh]

8 minutes ago, proudkaur21 said:

Honestly how do these people get elected to sgpc? If western born sikhs become members of sgpc it would be so much better. So many of us here know the issues we face and can take decisions to combat them. We need intelligent people elected to the sgpc not uneducated fools. But i feel like the people who are elected to the sgpc are all under indian govt and that is why they dont do anything for sikhs. We are indirectly under their control.

Are you sure about that? The same Western Sikhs that have been suppressing info of decades of sexual abuse within the religious community, or even perpetrating it themselves? Western Sikhs who, in order to cultivate a following among the gullible, claim they're reincarnations of legendary Sikh personalities? That's just two relatively recent examples of Western Sikhs proving they're unable to function within the limits of decency. Imagine if we were burdened with actual power within the panth. Think of the shenanigans that would kick-off then.

[dallysingh101]

7 minutes ago, proudkaur21 said:

Honestly how do these people get elected to sgpc?

From what I've heard alcohol parties are heavily involved in garnering votes. 

[proudkaur21]

4 minutes ago, MisterrSingh said:

Are you sure about that? The same Western Sikhs that have been suppressing info of decades of sexual abuse within the religious community, or even perpetrating it themselves? Western Sikhs who, in order to cultivate a following among the gullible, claim they're reincarnations of legendary Sikh personalities? That's just two relatively recent examples of Western Sikhs proving they're unable to function within the limits of decency. Imagine if we were burdened with actual power within the panth. Think of the shenanigans that would kick-off then.

Bhai jagraj singh was western too and i think he had much more impact within the past few years than any of the sgpc people. We have bad apples too but then we have enough good apples who can help our community in numerous ways. SGPC and people back home are just sleeping. One problem with us is we do not know how to relate to non sikhs and i dont know why this is.

[proudkaur21]

24 minutes ago, dallysingh101 said:

It's because they are sociopaths and are unable to think about anything but themselves. Organisations like that make sure they keep out people who are not like them (like the police in the UK), so I don't even think western born Sikhs should even bother. Even if SGPC did hire someone from out of the usual spectrum, it would just be tokenism to placate people, and they'd probably make sure the new guy doesn't rock the boat too much.   

We have to start parallel ground level movements. I think this has already started. How far we can go, time will tell. I think we need to focus on regional strength where we have a few numbers. But it is hard to do, because people don't want to confront ugly truths about the community. As you alluded too, they'd rather live in the fantasy world of being a strong warrior (without even being anything like one), and have a stronger caste identity to a dharmic one. 

It's not worth getting despondent, bibian can play a massive role in how they raise their kids so that they aren't like the previous lot.  

The problem with us is our roots have become very weak because the previous generations did not pass on sikhi at all. I mean i see people who come to canada from villages in punjab and you can barely see any sikhi in them. I sometimes have no hope in them passing on sikhi to their kids who will be born here. My parents barely taught me anything about sikhi just made me memorise paath and told some stories. But sikhi is spritiual and cannot just be understood by memorizing paath. We need to understand what the paath that we are saying everyday means. What it is telling us and how to implement it in our lives. Thats where we fail because the parents dont know anything and only teach surface level stuff to kids who then think its all about rituals.We dont have strong roots anymore. Sikhi is not as easy as just believe in jesus and you are saved. You have to keep learning and evolving and understanding throughout your life. But when majority of these people are not emotionally intelligent you cant really expect them to be strong in sikhi because they barely understand it. I see my own aunt(father's sister) who barely teaches her kids anything about sikhi. When they were young she would make them memorize paath, telling names of gurus and stories( which is not bad) but the kids barely know what the paath that they say everyday means. And to top it all of my aunt herself probably doesnt understand what the paath says because her behavior is so anti sikh like including being obsessed with money, parent's property show off, drinking wine and thinking you are modern. Its so sad and is quite evident that she does not understand an iota of sikhi although she does read paath from gutka everyday. They have made it into rituals where you just read paath and god will help you. They dont understand anything. Im sometimes worried about my cousins because they live in alabama and im worried about them being targetted by those southern Christians. They are young right now like just teenagers and impressionable. Anytime i tell my aunt that what she does is againt sikhi they all laugh at me and say I'm too serious. how can you expect anything from such people?

[dallysingh101]

26 minutes ago, proudkaur21 said:

 One problem with us is we do not know how to relate to non sikhs and i dont know why this is.

I think one big factor (at least) might be that we've tied it into Panjabi identity and not extrapolated the universal aspects of it? Language/linguistic skills are also an issue. Also, let's keep it real. In terms of what outsiders would call a preacher (or us a parchaarak), our lot (in comparative terms), have these really unanimated, dry, boring personalities compared to others. That's probably another factor why so many people felt Bhai Jagraj Singh, he wasn't like that. 

I think a lot of Americans would actually like Sikhi, especially because of Sikhi's pro-weapons stance, and right to self defence and history of challenging oppressive, powerful governments. But if we promote this, and the apnay they encounter don't match the description and start showing sycophantic tendencies.......well.....they'll only see them as lesser beings (understandably). 

[MisterrSingh]

20 minutes ago, proudkaur21 said:

Bhai jagraj singh was western too and i think he had much more impact within the past few years than any of the sgpc people. We have bad apples too but then we have enough good apples who can help our community in numerous ways. SGPC and people back home are just sleeping. One problem with us is we do not know how to relate to non sikhs and i dont know why this is.

One man out of a tiny minority within a slightly bigger minority, lol. Time to accept that perhaps it's over from a collective perspective, and consider individual efforts for personal spiritual advancement? I continue repeating myself but India-based Sikhs are a lost cause. They're gone. They have two modes: either total Punjabiyat crassness and hedonism, or adherence to a surface level Sikhi that hasn't penetrated their inner selves. That's it. Those who buck these trends don't have enough numbers to make a difference.