Sikh Farmers vs Muslim Gujjar clash in Majitha, Amritsar

[Ranjeet01]

Even though we Sikhs can be very corrupt, it seems that on the subcontinent we are perhaps the least corrupt. 

It seems that we play by the rules.

Perhaps the reality is the culture of the subcontinent is no longer compatible with Sikhi and we are as a quam are no longer compatible with this place.

Maybe this in part explains why we are moving out in droves.

[GurjantGnostic]

8 hours ago, BhForce said:

If this happens, what do you (and other forum members) think the govt reaction will be? Do you think the Hindus (BJP and the soft Hindutva AAP) will be OK with it because they hate the Muslims?

Or do you think they'll have a problem with Sikhs standing up for themselves and gaining experience with "direct action"?

I think they hate us most. I think they'll be passive towards the aggressors. Time to make an example. 

[proactive]

8 hours ago, BhForce said:

If this happens, what do you (and other forum members) think the govt reaction will be? Do you think the Hindus (BJP and the soft Hindutva AAP) will be OK with it because they hate the Muslims?

Or do you think they'll have a problem with Sikhs standing up for themselves and gaining experience with "direct action"?

That's a question that came to my mind, this will put these Hinduvis into quite a quandary, but I think that essentially they will support us. This is probably the best time to sort out the problem of these Gujjars, if you read all the comments online the 90% of apnay and Hindus are supporting the Kisans. It is interesting that these comrades are playing their dirty games with this issue as well as Jatinder Chinna of Kirti Kisan Union and supporting the Gujjars. He got confronted by Sikhs while he was trying to take the side of the Gujjars. I wrote a few months ago that we need to unite as a people and we need to confront the liberals and their allies because they people have shown that they will always stand with the Muslims against us. 

I think people are definitely waking up in Punjab. The fact that Ravi Singh and his KA clowns have kept out is that they know that the issue is one where no amount of BS Punjabiyat and Bhaicharak sanjh will undo the damage the Gujjars have done. 

[SikhKosh]

The easiest and best solution is to get Hindu right wing involved in Punjab. This way you get your work done (taming Christians and Muslims) and BJP center won't say anything. Remember what we were doing when RSS was crying about Sikhs converting to Christianity 20 years back ? We were attacking RSS because we prefered abrahamic missionary religions due to the false notion of being common minorities than letting RSS do their job. We were in fact OBSTRUCTING RSS when they were doing ghar vaapsi of Sikhs who had become Christians. We are a bunch of fools and know nothing about chanakya niti, we are too afraid to manipulate people, qaums or nations. This is one thing that needs to change because even people on this forum do not realize the need to play things smartly.
Every single action against the Muslims in Punjab will have repercussions for Sikhs in Kashmir, Pakistan etc. Hence the best thing is to covertly get things done without making too much noise on social media. But as my elders used to say, we Sikhs even take credit for killings we haven't done. That is our mentality which needs a change otherwise things will get ugly (either way if we continue to ignore the situation or if we do things without taking the wider geo-political implications into consideration).

[Shaheed4life]

12 minutes ago, SikhKosh said:

The easiest and best solution is to get Hindu right wing involved in Punjab. This way you get your work done (taming Christians and Muslims) and BJP center won't say anything. Remember what we were doing when RSS was crying about Sikhs converting to Christianity 20 years back ? We were attacking RSS because we prefered abrahamic missionary religions due to the false notion of being common minorities than letting RSS do their job. We were in fact OBSTRUCTING RSS when they were doing ghar vaapsi of Sikhs who had become Christians. We are a bunch of fools and know nothing about chanakya niti, we are to afraid to manipulate people, qaums or nations. This is one thing that needs to change because even people on this forum do not realize the need to play things in a smart way.
Every single action against the Muslims in Punjab will have repercussions for Sikhs in Kashmir, Pakistan etc. Hence the best thing is to covertly get things done without making too much noise on social media. But as my elders used to say, we Sikhs even take credit for killings we haven't done. That is our mentality which needs a change.

Veerji, this may solve the Gujjar problem but it might create another problem. Letting the right wing Hindu extremist settle this matter may backfire on us. What happens after they make the Gujjar retreat? These same Hindu extremist groups will replace the Gujjars and will instead occupy our pind. Do you think Shiv Sena would want to leave Punjab if they can get a few Pinds as their stronghold? The best way is to not involve any 3rd party but instead settle this like how we have always done in history. Alone only with Vaheguru ji's kirpa on our heads. The best thing would be if the Nihangs and other Tyar Bar Tyar Singhs can get the Pind that we lost by tomorrow. This will show the Gujjars that Singhs are still strong and they will not be able to make advances into Punjab easily. We have to spoil their advances in the earliest stage which is now. Send a huge number of Sikhs and get that Pind back. Even if we feel 200 Singhs are enough to get the Pind, bring a thousand. Show them that we are capable of bringing the masses within a short time of needed. This will deter them from making advances and at the same time spoil the dreams of the Hindu extremist groups who are thinking Punjab will one day become theirs.

If we show those gajjars who tried to make advances into Punjab our power and chase them out, those Hindu extremist groups, who are still only dreaming about getting punjab and have not made any actual progress, will have their dreams crushed. While we have our Fateh. However, like what you said this will have some effects on our Singhs in Kashmir and other areas. But we cannot afford to let Hindu extremist into punjab as well. They are not are friends as well.

The Nishan sahib will forever rule Punjab

Bhul Chuk Maf ji

[SikhKosh]

12 minutes ago, Shaheed4life said:

Veerji, this may solve the Gujjar problem but it might create another problem. Letting the right wing Hindu extremist settle this matter may backfire on us. What happens after they make the Gujjar retreat? These same Hindu extremist groups will replace the Gujjars and will instead occupy our pind. Do you think Shiv Sena would want to leave Punjab if they can get a few Pinds as their stronghold? The best way is to not involve any 3rd party but instead settle this like how we have always done in history. Alone only with Vaheguru ji's kirpa on our heads. The best thing would be if the Nihangs and other Tyar Bar Tyar Singhs can get the Pind that we lost by tomorrow. This will show the Gujjars that Singhs are still strong and they will not be able to make advances into Punjab easily. We have to spoil their advances in the earliest stage which is now. Send a huge number of Sikhs and get that Pind back. Even if we feel 200 Singhs are enough to get the Pind, bring a thousand. Show them that we are capable of bringing the masses within a short time of needed. This will deter them from making advances and at the same time spoil the dreams of the Hindu extremist groups who are thinking Punjab will one day become theirs.

If we show those gajjars who tried to make advances into Punjab our power and chase them out, those Hindu extremist groups, who are still only dreaming about getting punjab and have not made any actual progress, will have their dreams crushed. While we have our Fateh. However, like what you said this will have some effects on our Singhs in Kashmir and other areas. But we cannot afford to let Hindu extremist into punjab as well. They are not are friends as well.

The Nishan sahib will forever rule Punjab

Bhul Chuk Maf ji

It is better to have an enemy you know than an enemy you don't know. While historically we know the Muslim psyche, most Sikhs in Punjab have forgotten what Islamism looks like because they haven't had direct exposure to it since 1947. Their only exposure is the Pak Muslim hospitality when yatrees go to Pak, which skews their perception of reality.

On the other hand, RSS, Shiv Sena are known to us because we have fought them for decades. Therefore we will ensure that the Hindu RW does not get out of control. If you let them do your dirty work it does not make them more powerful because you are not aiding them in any way, you are just 'letting' them finish of a common enemy. Next time a riot happens, do not F.CKING side with Muslims - unlike the last riot I remember where our fuddu Sikhs rushed to help their becharey Muslim minority brothers (Phagwara incident was one of the many).

Let me put it in another - perhaps controversial - way. A Sikh under the influence of RSS will not stop going to Gurdwaras, will not stop venerating our Gurus because they, but a Sikh gone to Islam and Christianity is lost forever. The son of a RSS influenced Sikh may get back to the Panth but you lose generations once one person converts to these Abrahamic religions. Therefore it is very important to limit the growth of Abrahamics; Hindus we have handled well and they are under control in Punjab.

[Shaheed4life]

1 minute ago, SikhKosh said:

It is better to have an enemy you know than an enemy you don't know. While historically we know the Muslims, most Sikhs in Punjab have forgotten what Islamism looks like because they haven't had direct exposure to it since 1947. RSS, Shiv Sena is known to us because we have fought them for decades. Therefore we will ensure that the Hindu RW does not get out of control. If you let them do your dirty work it does not make them more powerful because you are not aiding them in any way, you are just 'letting' them finish of a common enemy. 

Let me put it in another - perhaps controversial - way. A Sikh under the influence of RSS will not stop going to Gurdwaras, will not stop venerating our Gurus because they, but a Sikh gone to Islam and Christianity is lost forever. The son of a RSS influenced Sikh may get back to the Panth but you lose generations once one person converts to these Abrahamic religions. Therefore it is very important to limit the growth of them, Hindus we have handled well and they are under control in Punjab.

Veerji, I understand your point but I feel that like how if we chase the Gujjars our we will have repercussions for those Singhs living in Kashmir, similarly if RSS gets into Punjab, if we try to control them, we may have repercussions for Sikh Sangat and Gurudwaras all over India. 

We have all seen the Hindu mobs in other parts of India. Gujjars can be handled quickly but if we challenge the Hindu mobs they can easily be linked to BJP.

[Shaheed4life]

4 minutes ago, SikhKosh said:

It is better to have an enemy you know than an enemy you don't know. While historically we know the Muslims, most Sikhs in Punjab have forgotten what Islamism looks like because they haven't had direct exposure to it since 1947. RSS, Shiv Sena is known to us because we have fought them for decades. Therefore we will ensure that the Hindu RW does not get out of control. If you let them do your dirty work it does not make them more powerful because you are not aiding them in any way, you are just 'letting' them finish of a common enemy. 

Let me put it in another - perhaps controversial - way. A Sikh under the influence of RSS will not stop going to Gurdwaras, will not stop venerating our Gurus because they, but a Sikh gone to Islam and Christianity is lost forever. The son of a RSS influenced Sikh may get back to the Panth but you lose generations once one person converts to these Abrahamic religions. Therefore it is very important to limit the growth of them, Hindus we have handled well and they are under control in Punjab.

How long do we have before RSS starts calling Sikhi a branch of Hinduism and changes the plot? Our Naujawan will then be converted to Hindus which will make RSS no different than Gujjars and Christian Missionaries. We all know about their plan to make India Hindu Rashtra by 2030. Do you think they will give that up just to fight a common enemy? It shouldn't be the case that will trying to manipulate our enemy, our apney itself gets cheated.

Bhul Chuk Maf ji

[SikhKosh]

RSS is already there. They are already handling Muslims at their own level. Last time they clashed with Muslims in Phagwara, Sikhs took no time to rush to that spot to support these Muslims. Is this what you want? Embolden Muslims ?
The Punjabi Hindu does not have the spine to stand against Sikhs, therefore I do not fear them. But the Gujjar will not hesitate to attack, rape and commit mass murder of Sikhs. 

Thus I am asking to stop obstructing RSS when they attack Muslims or Christians. Use their cover and do what you have to do as well.

If you send Singhs to surround villages here in Punjab, expect similar reactions from Pak Muslims to Pak Sikhs. In '92 Hindus destroyed the Babri Mosque in India. But Sikhs were targeted along with Hindus in nearly every Muslim country (Pak, Afghan etc). Therefore openly doing things and especially posting about it on social media is not a good thing.

[SikhKosh]

1 minute ago, Shaheed4life said:

How long do we have before RSS starts calling Sikhi a branch of Hinduism and changes the plot? Our Naujawan will then be converted to Hindus which will make RSS no different than Gujjars and Christian Missionaries. We all know about their plan to make India Hindu Rashtra by 2030. Do you think they will give that up just to fight a common enemy? It shouldn't be the case that will trying to manipulate our enemy, our apney itself gets cheated.

Bhul Chuk Maf ji

Oh comeon, Sikhs have been crying about RSS for decades. We have become a joke because it seems we have a psychological fear of RSS just the way Muslims have one from  Jews and tend to blame everything on them and fear them for their intellect and shrewdness.