Can someone who knows more about Sikhi than me educate me on a few things?

[ipledgeblue]

4 hours ago, Redoptics said:

You obviously are struggling with the basics of sikhi, why are people trying to run before they can walk. You do know you are not supposed to judge people. Its people like yourself that push 'monay' away from the panth.

Anyway I have seen it alot people jumping into 5 ks , Dasam Granth etc, without even reading and understanding Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

we can't judge people? I am sure it is the actual lack of judgement that is causing families to go to destruction. Stern judgment from elders is what today's people need to stop being so weak and sheepish!

[SinghPunjabSingh]

On 4/8/2022 at 7:39 PM, californiasardar1 said:

1. I am not sure why you have labeled my thoughts as "faux-humble nonsense." At some point I realized that if I am struggling so much to do basic things in my life, it must be because of having too many inherent flaws. I don't want to pass those on to poor children who will grow up without a hope. I also don't want to ruin the image of the amritdhari community (there is no way I can live up to what an amritdhari should be).

2. I'm not sure why you would suggest that not being amritdhari would help generate female interest. I would argue that being keshdhari but not amritdhari makes it more difficult to get married. Any girl who actually wants to be with a singh will be amrithdhari and naturally look for an amritdhari.

1. You are not struggling to do anything in life. It takes courage even to be a Kesdhari in the States. You are healthy, intelligent and financially successful compared to most indebted Americans. Poverty does not exist among American born Californian Punjabi Sikhs. The only thing you are struggling with is to find an Amritdhari or GurSikh ladki in your city because you are not willing to give any others (who comprise the 95% majority of the Qaum) or who are outside of California a chance. So 99.9% of Americans are non-Sikhs and then you want limit your "choice" pool to one in twenty or less (when we factor in location) of those remaining. All of us have flaws - so what!? One of my flaws is that some of your more depressing self-doubting posts drive me nuts! So nobody is flawless and nobody apart from Guru Sahib and ParmAathmah are perfect. Look Muslims marry their cousins and pass on genetic disabilities due to consanguinity diseases and yet you are worrying about passing on flaws like the fact that you didn't manage to get Superbowl tickets! You are so hard on yourself it's unreal. If you are not thinking of drinking alcohol or doing drugs after becoming Amritdhari and you would try to do your best in the event of a terrorist attack then I think you would not be any worse an Amritdhari than the Badals.

2. I disagree - there are GurSikh women out there who also don't quite feel ready to become Amritdhari just yet

On 4/8/2022 at 7:52 PM, californiasardar1 said:

1. Sure, I understand what you are saying. But surely there needs to be some dividing line, right?

2. If not, Sikhi is just going to disintegrate into "anything goes" Hinduism.

1. The existing red line is just fine. The Khalsa Panth remains niara. Nobody is advocating that Amritdhari's cut their kes or do drugs or drink alcohol. All folks are saying that those not quite ready or capable at this point in time of living up to what a Sant-Sipahi should be are still within the umbrella of the wider Sikh Panth.

2. How does Sikhi disintegrate if the Khalsa Panth remains niara and where in fact a greater emphasis on quality over quantity is emphasised! If you have a "gene" pool of 1billion sehajdhari Sikhs a bigger, stronger and more committed Khalsa Panth will arise. If you keep on excluding and excluding ad infinitum then the opposite will happen and both the number and quality of the Khalsa Panth will decline - as we see since this exclusionary mentality was poisonously infiltrated into the mindset of many in the Qaum by crooked but clever Hindutva thinkers. They realised that if they could minimise the demographic strength of the Qaum by excluding folks from being part of the Sikh Panth that they could get Sikhs to destroy the Qaum's growth from within by alienating people away who are natural born sehajdhari Sikhs (but currently are falsely classified as so-called "Hindu's"). Growing Qaums, ideologies and civilizations seek to include as many as possible within their wider framework be that Mormons, Democratic countries, NATO etc. Those ideologies that seek to exclude and alienate away as many as possible end up as dead as the Dodo long term. 

On 4/8/2022 at 7:57 PM, californiasardar1 said:

Then they wouldn't have to waste $500 paying some guy who just arrived from India to a tie a pagh on them.

Absolutely and when you do get married please do not waste $50,000 on your wedding.

Use that $50,000 to put down a deposit on a rental property instead and use the profits to help the Panth.

https://shdf.org/

[Redoptics]

6 hours ago, ipledgeblue said:

we can't judge people? I am sure it is the actual lack of judgement that is causing families to go to destruction. Stern judgment from elders is what today's people need to stop being so weak and sheepish!

You are supposed to judge yourself,  not anyone else, if you think that's weak, you need to check your ego. This is not from me but within Guru Granth Sahib Ji. 

[MisterrSingh]

16 hours ago, californiasardar1 said:

Keeping kesh is part of being a Sikh, which is inherently a religious choice.

Where did you learn that from? How does someone who doesn't know of Amritsar's religious significance to Sikhs, suddenly know that keeping uncut hair is a requirement for Sikhs. It's not written in the Guru Granth Sahib aside from some philosophical musing about how adhering to certain rehats at the expense of others is irreligious and hypocritical. So, you've studied rehatnamas (that specify the keeping of unshorn hair), have you? Then why are the original questions in your first post such a mystery to you? What was the reason for posting them?

 

16 hours ago, californiasardar1 said:

I'm not sure why you would suggest that not being amritdhari would help generate female interest. I would argue that being keshdhari but not amritdhari makes it more difficult to get married. Any girl who actually wants to be with a singh will be amrithdhari and naturally look for an amritdhari.

I'd be a lot more sympathetic to your plight if trying to get a straight answer out of you wasn't like trying to nail water to a wall. Cue your response, "I don't need your sympathy." Frig me.

Whatever post-modern Western social philosophies you've filled your head with haven't served you well, have they? The way you rationalise the issues that obviously cause you mental distress by jumping through hoops and shielding the very things and people who deserve your scorn tells me you're very afraid of embracing certain truths.

I don't think you're serious about finding a woman at all. Our Punjabi system of securing partners is fool-proof. Yet every time someone offers you solution, you put up a wall of excuses.

OTHERS: Get married.

YOU: My genes are 5hit.

OTHERS: Exercise and eat well. You'll gain confidence and feel better. That radiates to women.

YOU: No point. They won't change my genes.

OTHERS: You can find an amritdhari wife if you take amrit.

YOU: No point. I'm not "good enough" to be an amritdhari. I'd only disgrace the demographic.

---

Ultimately, your keshdhari advocacy rings hollow because you REFUSE to take the next natural step to seal the deal as it were. I know you believe - but you'll never admit on here - that taking amrit is unnecessary to being a Sikh, which is why you put up that wall of pakandh to avoid taking amrit, which is your choice after all. But at least be honest.

That list of questions you posted at the beginning was a "clever" attempt at trying to get people to claim certain things about Sikhi which you could rebut by arguing none of those things are explicitly stated in Sikh scriptures, therefore strengthening your position as to why you don't think amrit is a requirement for a keshdhari.

As much as I agree with you about certain issues on kesh-related matters, I can't take anything you say seriously because of the veiled intent behind your words. You don't argue for kesh philosophically or spiritually, or because it moves you from a religious point of view; you argue for it simply because you're emotionally resentful. There's no substance to it. It rings hollow because you avoid doing the very thing that will aid you in securing the thing you desire most. So we go around in a circle.

[dallysingh101]

11 hours ago, ipledgeblue said:

 Stern judgment from elders is what today's people need to stop being so weak and sheepish!

New generation are so weak that they'll genuinely need counselling to recover from this....seriously. 

[ipledgeblue]

On 4/9/2022 at 8:22 AM, Redoptics said:

You are supposed to judge yourself,  not anyone else, if you think that's weak, you need to check your ego. This is not from me but within Guru Granth Sahib Ji. 

it is not egotistical to use one's own judgement to try and improve another person  Especially if they are sheeple or have bad judgement.

Without judgement how will we get  a khalsa raaj?

In bani, I don't think it applies to all judgement, however would be helpful to post some tuks.

[Singh1989]

On 4/7/2022 at 7:20 PM, californiasardar1 said:

Here are some questions for you:

 

Do Sikhs believe in "shrines"?

Do Sikhs believe in pilgrimages?

Is Amritsar a "Holy City"?

Is it important for a Sikh to visit Amritsar?

Is Harmander Sahib the "holiest shrine in the Sikh religion"?

 

 

Shrines, no. We ONLY worship SGGS. No statues, shrines. 

Pilgrimage? Some Sikhs MAY go on a pilgrim but these days? Who gonna walk? It's all about car / taxi services. Many Brahmgianis have walked days, weeks and months to get from one Gurudwara to the next. However, it is about the Spiritual pilgrim according to SGGS THAT is more important.

Amritsar CAN be considered Holy. In SGGS 3rd Guru Ji has mentioned "Whoever calls themselves a Sikh of the Guru must arise early to meditate. THEN go Amritsar to Bathe..." Hence when we go India we must take time to visit the Darbaar Sahib. 

The holiest shrine? Gurbani has mentioned the holiest shrine is within us. However, physical acts like Pilgrims, visiting places are important as we gain Sadh Sangat from it. We do sevas of maintaining these physical shrines. Our sins are washed and we start our within journey anew. 

IMO if one is spiritually high in their jeevan and they visit a Gurudwara, whereas another isn't and they visit Darbaar Sahib, the high in Jeevan will benefit the most. The one that isn't gets a fresh slate/ back on square one. 

Not to forget the miraculous stories visiting Darbaar Sahib. Someone gone blind got their sights back, leporesy got cured, langraa started walking again, cancer disappeared - once the people entered the Holy Sarovar and submerged. 

[GurjantGnostic]

12 hours ago, Singh1989 said:

Shrines, no. We ONLY worship SGGS. No statues, shrines.

Honorable mention Shastar when there is no Saroop. 

[GurjantGnostic]

12 hours ago, Singh1989 said:

Not to forget the miraculous stories visiting Darbaar Sahib. Someone gone blind got their sights back, leporesy got cured, langraa started walking again, cancer disappeared - once the people entered the Holy Sarovar and submerged.

Our understanding of the micro and macrocosmic world is just beginning. If quantum physicists and biologists were to study Amritsar, especially in its prime, I'm pretty sure they'd find that it indeed has the ability to heal. 

[GurjantGnostic]

On 4/10/2022 at 3:43 PM, ipledgeblue said:

it is not egotistical to use one's own judgement to try and improve another person  Especially if they are sheeple or have bad judgement.

Without judgement how will we get  a khalsa raaj?

In bani, I don't think it applies to all judgement, however would be helpful to post some tuks.

The downside is there are an infinite number of atmas improving. So if overly emotional about it, it's a trap. Don't get me wrong. Corrections are free wherever I go.