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There are some major discrepancies with the above document. (1) Massa Rangharr - the Sikh History Book 5 by Kartar Singh, published by Hemkunt Press and Bhai Kahn Singh Nabha in Mahan Kosh both state that Massa Rangharr was killed in 1740. Harbans Singh "The encyclopedia of Sikhism, details it to: 11 August, 1740. Yet the above document states: Jan 2, 1741. (2) Jahan Khan was killed by Bhai Dayal Singh who was in Baba Deep Singh Ji's Missal (Shaheedan), Jahan Khan is known to have died around the same time as Baba Deep Singh Ji - Nov 1757. Yet, the above document states June 19. (3) The death date of Ahmad Shah Abdali/Durrani in most history texts, including Mahan Kosh is -1773 Yet this document states: July of 1762. I could go on but I wont. The only dates that are correct are for Indra Gandhi - the rest have not historical basis. Just made up by someone counting 153 from the events. The origins of this document is most likely some illiterate dhaadhi who needed to make up an interesting myth about 153 days. It is no different than the one made up by our chardi-kala kathakars of today who state General Brar was dying of cancer - this same 78 year old "cancer" patient seems to have fought over four attackers in UK. Perhaps the author of the above document can let us know when Brar's 153 days are coming?

(1) I followed this story with interest and I am shocked that 4 young men armed with a knife attacked a 78 year old man and didn't inflict further damage than has been mentioned. I find it deeply suspicious that 4 young men could attack an old man so meekly that he was discharged from hospital within 24 hours and will partake in international air travel within 72 hours of the supposed attack. Quite a remarkable recovery, NHS standards must have improved. (2) With a CCTV camera for every 13 people in London, these 4 men will be identified in due course. (3) The sheer lack of clarity of the exact location (Oxford Circus/outside hotel) and the time of the attack (22:40 or 01:00 according to one report), with Scotland Yard conflicting the Indian High Commison is worrying. (4) The absence of security personnel raises eyebrows to say the least. (5) The only witness thus far is his wife. At this stage she isn't even sure if they were Sikh men! In such a tourist hotspot, surely there must have been independent witnesses? Lt Gen Brar has committed an atrocity of seismic proportions. However, unfortunately, I fear that this incident will be used as an opportunity to "quieten down" the British Sikhs with the aim of disabling their political agenda.

Well its obvious now they are reading this forum! The practically mentioned it and made direct quotes from peoples posts. However, I think the discussion went well and it was good to hear people from other faiths supporting Sikhs!

So veerji, who are we to tell or dictate on others what to do or not to do ? If your reply is to bibi Ji in news then you need to refrain before knowing all facts. Her will is much stronger than us. If we have our own set inferiority complex issues then that does not mean we should go on public dictating or suggesting what other should be doing or not be doing. This bibi Ji, a very close friend of my relative comes from a very liberal family and upbringing. If she doesn't have any problem with her appearance then why this should worry or make you uneasy? It is okay for us to agree to disagree but dictating others what to do or what not to do is simply issue of inferiority complex when it comes to appearance issues. Imagine one gorey, owner of well known website starts saying that all Sikh male should not be keeping facial beard or turban.

Lori, We respect all other holy men before and after Sri guru Nanak dev Ji. We accept their existence as positive to humankind. However, if you are asking that whether we believe in their teachings then personally I have to say that I do not. Why and why not? 1. No other religious head wrote text and many fail in trying to authenticate that religious Scriptures written by holy man itself. This is different with sikhi as our gurus took extra step of noting down every teaching they taught in most practical form. Whole Sri Guru Granth Sahib jee is by our gurus in 100%. 2. No religion or society ever given 100% equal rights to female gender. Even USA who is well known as defender of women right around the world, gave women voting right some 60 yrs ago. In sikhi this happened in 1400's. Many of our religious institutions ran solely by women folks since 1469. We have female granthi (priest), head of sgpc (sikh org like Vatican). I don't see female iman/mullah or priest. neither we will see female gender running Mecca or Vatican. 3. Earth is flat. Many religious scripts are not inline with most of today's scientist discoveries. Just few months ago, there was a news saying that there are Xxxx amount species living on our earth. Though they are not total accurate but very close to what our religious scripts pointed out number of species living on our earth. Only in this century human or west discovered truth about universe and Big Bang theory but all of this was already mentioned by our gurus ages ago. 4. Sikh gurus said that if you are Muslim then be a good Muslim, if Hindu then be a good Hindu. This shows the respect our gurus had for other religion. However we all know what other current religious practice thinks of other religion followers. Muslim says that if u r not Muslim then u r kafir or christian says that 'you are going to hell' if u do not hold Christ as your guru. Above are just few things that differentiate sikh gurus with other religious heads. So to your question of sukhs believing in teachings of other holy men. No, we don't but in reality we do respect all religions and this can be practically proven by our gurus handwritten scripture. Point me official document from Vatican or from Mecca which shows acceptance of other religion? Lori, I can suggest you to do independent research by start reading our gurus written scripture online and then only you can find answers for your questions. You must try to free your mind from thoughts before reading any scriptures.

Please see-attached..!!!!!!

Some prachaaraks get a bit excited on stage. I'm all for instilling pride and a fighting spirit in the sangat, but why manufacture these myths? IF anything it shows a bare-faced contempt for the sangat by assuming none of them have the brains to go away and do a bit of research.

Share this news article on all social media otlets with friends and family. Also, be sure to read this article and share your thoughts. I've hi-lighted the important points if someone doesn't want to read it all! http://www.sikh24.com/2012/10/oped-attack-on-general-brar-what-were-the-real-motives/#.UGpSPphyWSo Europe, India, Op/Ed, WORLD | October 1, 2012, 10:21 pm Op/Ed – Attack on General Brar: What Were the Real Motives? By: Guest Columnist Bhai Bittu & Bhai Barapind A week ago, both the President and former President of the Sikh political party, Akali Dal (Panch Pardhani) were charged with waging war on the State, possession of explosives and sedition. Bhai Kulbir Singh Barapind and Bhai Daljit Singh Bittu were originally arrested under preventative measures, but have since seen their charges exacerbated and have been placed in judicial custody for a period of 14 days. The former is a serving member of the Shiromani Gurdwara Parbandhak Committee (SGPC) – notably the only candidate to successfully defeat a (CM of Punjab) Badal-supported nominee in recent SGPC elections in the Doaba region – whilst under the leadership of Daljit Singh Bittu, the Akali Dal (Panch Pardhani) has continued to gain support as a political party. It is no secret that the arrests have been to the benefit of the Badal-led Punjab Govt. and the wider Sikh hierarchy in Punjab, including the President of the SGPC, Avtar Singh Makkar who upheld that the Police were correct to make the arrests, despite human rights groups and media outlets confirming that no evidence of banned paraphernalia or explosives have been found. But more worryingly, each passing day with the surfacing of new and unrelated revelations, it has begun to appear that there may be a wider plot unfolding to silence any opposition to the status quo of recent years that has seen the Punjab, and Sikh institutions there, denigrated ever closer to oblivion. John Baird Almost a month ago now, Canadian Foreign Affairs Minister John Baird made sensational remarks suggesting that extremism and radicalisation was on the rise amidst Sikhs in Canada. His comments were widely rebuked throughout the country, but in the light of recent events, appear to merely be an opening shot across the bow of the Sikh World. Many in the Diaspora have been campaigning for greater transparency within Sikh institutions in the Punjab and have questioned the unhealthy influence of the Badal-led, supposed Sikh political party, the Shiromani Akali Dal, over the SGPC specifically. This has not been met with great welcome and clear attempts to marginalise the Sikh voice abroad have been filtering through Punjabi/Sikh media over the past year. Baird’s remarks were a pronounced escalation of this strategy. General Kuldeep Brar However, today’s news of the alleged attack on retired Lt. General Kuldip Brar who led the 1984 invasion of Sri Darbar Sahib Amritsar, is even more puzzling and timely. Indian media began to report late this afternoon, that Gen. Brar and his wife who are ordinarily under constant protection in Mumbai, were attacked last night in London, where the retired General suffered wounds to his neck. Depending on which Indian media outlet you believe, he was attacked either outside his hotel or on Oxford Street at around 10:30pm, although we ascertained from the Metropolitan Police that the attack took place on Old Quebec Street, a stone’s throw from Marble Arch tube station. The original source issuing the news is the High Commission of India which reports that Brar was in a critical condition in hospital overnight but has now been released and is recovering in private. The Metropolitan Police newswire reported Brar’s wounds as serious but not critical and that he had indeed been released from hospital after an overnight stay. His wife is quoted by Indian media as saying that they were set upon by four individuals whom she cannot identify. Despite what seems to be an apparent knife attack near the most popular street and area of the capital city, no press statement was issued last night or indeed this morning, but when issued were littered with references to the rise of Sikh extremism. Any native to central London will know that the slightest hint of an incident in Soho or Mayfair results in an instant cordoning-off of the area, which incidentally has one of the highest numbers of surveillance cameras in Western Europe, not to mention pedestrian foot-fall, so one would hope that the Metropolitan Police will have access to sufficient evidence to get to the heart of the matter. At this time, they are reporting no arrests although inquiries continue. It is remarkable to think that in this day and age, this news story is being published by both the Indian press, the bewildering Sikh TV stations and now the BBC with most of the news article leading on the fact that General Brar has long been a target for ‘Sikh extremists’. It is remarkable of course, unless seen in the wider context of what has been happening in a post-Rajoana World. Clearly the Badal-led Shiromani Akali Dal and their sibling forces hell-bent on usurping the Sikh people and vanquishing Guru Nanak’s egalitarian concept of Halemi Raj, have been so stunned by the global support to ‘Pledge Orange’ last Spring that they have moved rapidly to diminish the movement and what they see as the clearest threat to their autonomy over the Punjab and Sikh institutions. Opposition voices are no longer slowly being drowned out, rather they are erratically being routed through a multi-faceted campaign being played out primarily in the media. My gravest concern however remains for the everyday Sikh people who remain sightless to the situation. What will it take for our people to awake and realise what is being perpetrated against us? Must a well-known Sikh born and raised in the West be killed in dubious circumstances or face false charges before we care? Are the lives of the likes of Bhai Kulbir Singh Barapind and Bhai Daljit Singh Bittu not worthy of our time, for us to pause from our daily lives and think seriously and critically about what we as a people are doing? Rallies come and go, protests here then there, and TV shows galore, but all the while we fail to see through the looking glass, where white is black and black is white; all the while we fail to make a change for good, for now and ever more.

Why is other peoples misfortune funny veerji. As Sikh we should remain humble, no matter if somebody says something that is completely false, if they believe in it, then we should respect it. no matter how stupid we may think it is. Its same in society today and at work, if somebody puts across a poor idea which they think is good, we do not laugh about it.

Lori Its just that in the past we have had individuals with ulterior motives come to this forum and subtly force Islam on Sikhs. What you've been facing is a kneejerk reaction. I am not justifying it, its just unfortunate, however, please don't hesitate to post. You can ignore the posts you find are rude/arrogant and we will monitor those posters. Thanks

These over "angelic" type kathas cloud us from understanding the real facts of our ithaas. It becomes less about the learning from the facts and more about enhancing the fable. The Brar myth (in relation to Brar being remorseful about the Bluestar attack after being diagnosed with terminal cancer) has been one of the worst examples of this with some prominent kathakars confused the sangat with fiction over fact.

Nirgun or Sargun ? You're in trouble now.

Did they mention my post? It was quote from hollywood movie..lol I am big fan of CIA type spy movies got huge collection..i agree most spy movies are exaggerated..but they have elements of truth as well which you can relate in real world of spy/intelligence agencies..!!!!! Must recommended for sikhs who are into political activism etc.

This was done to glorify Brar as a national hero, demonise the Singhs and cyclical Indian media justification why the events of 1984 had to happen. It’s the periodic media cycle which is used in India, every so often revive an anti-1984 sentiment against the Sikhs. Brar had become a forgotten individual in modern mainstream India. This whole staged incident revives his name and gives him a new heroic image in India. A 78 year old patriotic Bharat Vasi is able to fight 4 young tough Sikh men. It’s a behzti all round, the portrayal is of bumbling Sikh terrorists against a highly competent decorated ex Army official who is almost in his 80s.

Yes agree this looks increasingly like a staged event (called false flag operation in intelligence circles). Brar said on Sangat TV a few months ago that Sikhs from abroad were exposing his crimes and wanted them stopped, he even mentioned this website. With Z plus security he would always have a bodyguard or have security cover arranged by the UK police. The information released was conflicting from seriously injurged to a small cut, some said a stab to neck others a stab in stomach. Indian media was on this story all at the same time like an official release. There is the crackdown in Punjab, the Candian ministers recent comments on Sikhs were spun out of hand, it seems the Sikhs abroad are the Target. Increase in subtle attempts to make Sikhs look as being an offshoot of hinduism (see posts on this sites), links to Hinduism being pushed all the time . Subersion from within. Wait for India to announce that the UK must crackdown on Sikhs in a little while.

HAHAHAHAA....................i think couple of Singhs are scared that Maharaj might present them with a Singhni who has facial hair as a potential spouse. They already got there kirpans out scared out of their mind......HAHAHAHA So lets tell every Singhni right now.............this is abnormal and the hair on face needs to be shaved, lasered off...............don't worry there is already a huge line of SInghnis who shave and make sure this need of yours is met. Wipe the sweat of your forehead and don't lose no more sleep over it.......LOL Just imagine one of these Singhs doing Ardas in front of Maharaj...........Please Maharaj not one with facial hair, i wll do 100 of Japji Sahibs and go every day to the Sikh temple for a day.........bless the Singhni with laser treatment and razor blades.......you are my Master, please grant me this one wish........

We consider born as when moment of soul infusing itself in baby's womb- as normally soul infuse itself in the baby in mother's womb around 120th day onwards (thats rough estimate). So what we mean when we say- sri guru nanak dev wasn't born is- Sri Guru Nanak Dev Supreme Avtar Soul- didn't infuse itself in the womb as that would indicate cycle of life and death whereas avtar is above from birth or death, they appear and disappear according to need/divine will of God. Birth of avatar occurs in the most divine serene profound way as avtars are most sublime royal physical embodiment of God..!!!!!!!!!

Source: http://www.nihangsingh.org/website/phil-shakti.html Shiv-Shakti There are various ways in which these two interrelated concepts can be looked at. Like the tre-gun they compose a vital part of the Nihang Singh philosophy. In the Chandi Chariter, Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji writes; 'The Lord is Primal, Infinite, Account-less, Boundless, Deathless, Garbless, Incomprehensible and Eternal. He created Shiva-Shakti, four Vedas and three modes of maya and Pervades in three worlds. He created day and night, the lamps of sun and moon and the whole world with five elements. He extended enmity and fight between the gods and demons and Himself seated (on His Throne) scans it.1'. (Dasam Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, 175) The Sikh writings suggest a great significance of the union between Shiv and Shakti; When the play of Shiv and Shakti comes to mind, one remains dead while yet alive' (Sri Guru Arjun Dev Ji, Adi Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, 1257) 'Wherever I look I see the Lord pervading there in the union of Shiv and Shakti.' (Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji, Adi Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, 21) 'When Shiv and Shakti playfully united the whole world came to be.' (Bhai Gurdas Ji, Vaar 2, Pauri 19). There are various ways in which Indian philosophies understand the notion of Shiv-Shakti. Shiv may be seen as Shiva and Shakti may be seen as his consort or more generally a feminine counterpart of a deity. Thus, we have a concept of divine masculine and feminine energy. Within the Indian traditions Shiva without Shakti is referred to as Shava, meaning corpse. This can be compared to a human being whose conscious is not aware of Vaheguru; Shiv may also be interpreted as consciousness and Shakti as divine power, hence a conciliation of the two represents conscious absorption into the Divine. Shiv may also refer to the soul (which is the very form of Vaheguru) and Shakti the power of Vaheguru transcended from nargun (formless) to sargun (with form - i.e. the universe). The great treasure of knowledge, Sant Giani Gurbachan Singh Bhindranvale (1902-1961) discusses that within certain context Shiv can also mean Satogun and shakti can represent Tamogun.(Adi Sri Guru Granth Sahib Katha, Volume 12, .020). He also states that Shiv can be understood independent of the deity Shiva, and as the form of Parmeshvar (Primal Being) and that Shakti can be understood as maya (creation). Mahant Om Nath Sharma in an article titled 'Navarati' gives the take on Shiva and Shakti from his school of thought that translates Shakti as Durga (the divine mother of the universe): Durga represents the divine mother. She is the energy aspect of the Lord. Without Durga, Shiva has no expression and without Shiva, Durga has no existence. Shiva is the soul of Durga; Durga is identical with Shiva…Shakti is the omnipotent power of the Lord, or the Cosmic Energy. (A Mystic World, Vol 1, Issue 1, page 18) There are a wide range of complementary understandings all which allow one to analyse the interaction of Shiv-Shakti within the Nihang Singh at various levels. Shiv is believed to be represented by a half moon (Aad Chand), signifying calm and coolness. Shakti is represented by a sun and is believed to be a more powerful energy and the driving force of the universe, within the Sikh tradition Chandi (personification of shakti) or Durga is not worshipped as a deity, but in the form of Bhaguati (sword). The Aad Chand (crescent moon) representing Shiv has long been a trademark of Nihang Singhs as is the wearing of arms; representing the divine union of Shiv and Shakti. Nihang Baba Hari Singh Ji - Baba Bakala Dal The highly treasured Nihang Baba Hari Singh Ji of Baba Bakala Dal seen (above) adoring the Aad Chand in his dumalla (Nihang turban style ) surrounded by various small Bhagautis representing the game of Shiv and Shakti. Shiv Shakti is not limited to mere symbology and external guise, it extends to spiritual practice. In line with the earlier explanation by Sant Giani Gurbachan Singh Bhindranvale, Shiv may also mean those who are inclined towards the Lord. Those inclined to this path follow the practice of Bhakti, devotional worship. Therefore, we also find that the relationship between Shiv-Shakti at times referred to as Bhakti and Shakti. Baba Tirath Singh Nirmala in his translation of Pundit Gulab Singhs Bhavrasamrit (p42-44) mentions the nine limbs of Bhakti which are referred to in the Sikh tradition as the Nvai Parkar (Nine methods): 1. Sravan - hearing the divine* praises. 2. Kirtan - singing the praised of the divine. 3. Simran - remembrance of the divines name. 4. Padsevena - service and offerings at the divines feet. 5. Archana - worship the divine. 6. Bandana - prostration before the divine. 7. Dasyam - developing feeling or emotion of being the divine's servant. 8. Sakhyam - cultivating the emotional bond of friendship. 9. Atma Nivedana - surrender of the self to the divine. *Within the Sikh tradition it is the Divine or the Guru who is the centre of Bhakti, within Indian traditions it is often a deity around which one centres their spiritual practice. By looking at the traditional practices of the Akali Nihangs, it will become clear how much of an important role is played by Bhakti. An example can be seen in case of Jathedar Baba Teja Singh 96 Krori who lead the Nihang Singhs of Budha Dal from 1907-1929. Unable to afford traditional instruments for the performance of kirtan, Baba Teja Singh upheld this import tradition by using his karray (iron bangles) as musical instruments. For many years he performed kirtan by banging his karray. The nine limbs of bhakti form an everyday part of a Nihang Singhs life. Everyday involves hearing and singing the praises of the Divine, they are taught to engage in the remembrance of the Divine 24 hours a day. The Aarti prayer is read everyday in worship of the divine. Many Nihang Singhs dedicate to their life serving at one particular Gurdwara. Being the ladlian faujan, beloved army, of Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji who they believe to be their eternal master portrays the deep bond they experience with their Guru. Many people overlook or actively undermine the Nihang Singhs without failing to realise the deeper esoteric value and spiritual philosophy behind their every action. Their lifestyle is their bhakti, Shakti they gain through their dedication to Bhagauti and Sabrloh (pure iron). Jathedar Baba Chet Singh Ji 96 Krori, the 12th Jathedar of the Budha Dal Well respected figure of the past century, Jathedar Baba Chet Singh Ji 96 Krori, the 12th Jathedar of the Budha Dal. Large sarbloh prayer beads (representing bhakti) can be seen around his neck and in his hand. He can also be seen adorning various weapons (representing shakti) by his side and in his dumalla. From the entire apparel of the Nihang Singhs one can witness the union of Shiv and Shakti which is Divine. The late Jathedar Baba Santa Singh 96 Krori of Budha dal discusses the meaning of 'shakti' which he believes is something many Sikhs fail to understand; "We call that Shakti what Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji has written is the mother of the universe and who has created Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva (quotes 30th verse of Japji Sahib). God being confined within himself gave hukam (command) for his power to become manifest, that Shakti created the whole world and thus takes the form of the mother….some worship Shakti as Bhavani, others as Kalika and others as Chandi. We worship this shakti in the form of our weapons." (Audio Recording, April 1995) Despite the great significance of Shiv-Shakti, Bhagat Namdev teaches it is useless to indulge in deep consideration on such philosophical matters if one does not meditate on the Master of the universe, which is the greatest of all acts. (Adi Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, 873). Such matters exist within our temporal realm and an understanding of them helps an individual on their spiritual path. When one reaches ultimate stages of divine bliss such matters cease to be important. The fifth Guru, Sri Guru Arjun Dev Ji describes this state; 'There is no Shiva or Shakti, no water or wind, no world of form where the True Guru, the Yogi, dwells, where the Imperishable Lord Vaheguru, the Unapproachable Master abides.' (Adi Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, 883) The Khalsa internally and externally illustrates the great divine play between these forces. These concepts should be used to aid ones understanding of creation and not hinder their relationship with the One Supreme Being. Sri Guru Arjun Dev Ji reminds us that millions Shiv and Shakti are under the command of Vaheguru (Adi Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, 1156)

Chatana is right, its hard to explain. But i will give it try anyway: You will find two Sikh school of thoughts- Modern day Sikh thought of God: abhramic version of God (thanks to protestant victorian christian fanatics when they were ruling India, they implanted their protestant victorian influence on sikh thought- to divide and rule- Sikh religion as we were seen as a threat- British umpire) Traditional Sikh thought of creator: Vahiguroo (God) In Sikh theology, Vahiguroo is ONE ( "Ik" Ongkar). However, to realize and feel oneness of Vahiguroo in everyone, in everything and in Vahiguroo attributes, Vahiguroo is consider to have two states- nirgun and sargun. In fact, whole sikh foundation is based on nirgun and sargun state of Vahiguroo. Definition of Nirgun form/state of Vahiguroo in its essence is Sat(truth) Chit(Supreme Consciousness) anand (Blissful) which cannot be described but knowledge of supreme existence of Vahiguroo can only be felt and attained Definition of Sargun form/state of Vahiguroo- Sargun state of Vahiguroo is when nirgun original state of Vahiguroo immanent its attributes: i) Shabad Mantras which explains the attributes of Vahiguroo but most importantly- shabad which has (gyan)knowledge of Vahiguroo When one meditates on shabad, it unites human being fully with God. ii) Creation- creator is infused in its creation like how fragnance is infused into the flower. iii) Physical form of Vahiguroo- Highest emobidment of Vahiguroo- Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji to Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji divine avtar of Nirgun Vahiguroo followed by six different type of avtars in Indic Philosphy. Nirgun state of Vahiguroo transcendent its attributes to sargun during creation and it's ever present through out cycle of yugas/ages (Satjug, treta, dvapar and kaljug). Perfect example of Nirgun transcedenting its immanent to Sargun is deep spiritual meaning of - Ikongkar (First Mantra in our living guru- Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Ikongkar~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Ik- Indicates Nirgun form/state of Vahiguroo Ong- indicates nirgun attributes transcedent itself to sargun - shabad/creation Kar- Kar intertwines both sargun and nirgun state of Vahiguroo b) What are Vahiguroo attributes? - Attributes of Vahiguroo are limitless and its beyond human comprehension as stated in jaap sahib (one of most important composition which talks about nirgun sargun flow of God). However, main attributes of Vahiguroo are mentioned in Gurmantar- Vahiguroo itself and Mool Mantra. Gurmantar- Vahiguroo Vahi (Acharaj/Wonderful Roop) Guroo - Bring one from darkness to light As our state of mind changes, one start feeling deeper meaning of Vahiguroo Gurmantar- Vahi (Acharaj/Wonderful roop) Guroo- chaitan roop (all prevading super consciousness atma paratma) Mool Mantra- Ikongkar = ( One Vahiguroo Nirgun/Sargun Interconnected/intertwine with one and another) Satnaam- His name is truth Kartapurkh- He himself is creator. Nirbhau- He is without fear. Nirvair- He does not have any enemy Akaal Moorat- He is without time, he is exist without shape or form. Ajooni- Without birth/death Saibhang- He is light of knowledge Gurparsad - He can be felt by grace of Guru(Vahiguroo) Jap - Meditate Aad sach means Vahiguroo always been truth. One cannot find confine- Vahiguroo in time or space- Aad Sach. Jagud Sach- From the beginnning of all yugs(ages) you are truth. Habhi Sach: Vahiguroo is truth in the present with no change. Nanak Hosi bhi sach: Nanak says, vahiguroo will be always truth in future with any change In gurbani nirgun and sargun are one: Sargun Nirgun Nirankar Sun Samadhi Aaap, Aaapie Kiya Nanaka Apaie Fer Jaap || Gurbani further illustrates one immanent to many: Nirgun Tae Sargun Thiya (From Nirgun vahiguroo, sargun came). From formless, He appeared as form. Then in Jaap sahib, Guru gobind singh ji shows us how nirgun transcedent to many and then from many back to one(Nirgun): Ek moorat(i) anek darsan koon roop anek|| (Jaap) Thou, the One Entity, appearest as Many creating innumerable forms. Khel khel akhel khelan ant ko phir(i) ek||81|| After playing the world-drama, when Thou wilt stop the play, Thou wilt be the same One again.81. b) How this whole universe was created? - The whole universe/multiverse was created by shabad resosance(divine sound) upon nirgun vahiguroo transcedenting its attributes to sargun. As our living guru- gurbani states: Utpat Parloa Shabade Hovaie Creation and destruction occurs through divine shabad Shabade hi fir opat hovaie Through the shabad, creation happens again. c.)What is the shabad behind creation and destruction? Gurbani states: Pirthame On(g)kar So Dhun Poran Jagat Mae Raha || Fist ongkar was recited and that resosance created world and give nourishment to this world. (Siri Guru Gobind Singh Ji, Dasam Granth Sahib) Ongkar aad kathni anad, Khal Khand Khyal Gurbar Akaal ||

While Lt-Gen Brar is thought to still be a target for Sikh extremists, there is no evidence they are behind this attack No need to make a big hoo ha over it, but check out how the BBC caption to the picture showing Hyde Park 84 marches subtly suggests that all the protesters are 'Sikh extremists'. Just a note for the asleep.

If he goes then good riddence, but please guys, no dancing in the streets or giving out barfi and ladoo, it does not befit Sikhs of Guru Gobind Singh Ji.

ਸਿਵ ਸਕਤਿ ਆਪਿ ਉਪਾਇ ਕੈ ਕਰਤਾ ਆਪੇ ਹੁਕਮੁ ਵਰਤਾਏ ॥ Siv sakat aap oupaae kai karataa aapae hukam varataaeae || The creator (Akaal Purakh ji ) Himself created Shiva and Shakti, soul and matter (maaya);the Creator subjects them to His Command. ਹੁਕਮੁ ਵਰਤਾਏ ਆਪਿ ਵੇਖੈ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਕਿਸੈ ਬੁਝਾਏ ॥ Hukam varataaeae aap vaekhai guramukh kisai bujhaaeae || Enforcing His Order, He Himself sees all. How rare are those who, as Gurmukh, come to know Him. ਤੋੜੇ ਬੰਧਨ ਹੋਵੈ ਮੁਕਤੁ ਸਬਦੁ ਮੰਨਿ ਵਸਾਏ ॥ Torrae bandhhan hovai mukat sabad mann vasaaeae || They break their bonds, and attain liberation; they enshrine the Shabad within their minds. ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਜਿਸ ਨੋ ਆਪਿ ਕਰੇ ਸੁ ਹੋਵੈ ਏਕਸ ਸਿਉ ਲਿਵ ਲਾਏ ॥ Guramukh jis no aap karae su hovai eaekas sio liv laaeae || Those whom the Lord Himself makes Gurmukh, lovingly focus their consciousness on the One Lord. ਕਹੈ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਆਪਿ ਕਰਤਾ ਆਪੇ ਹੁਕਮੁ ਬੁਝਾਏ ॥੨੬॥ Kehai naanak aap karathaa aapae hukam bujhaaeae ||26|| Says Nanak, He Himself is the Creator; He Himself reveals the Hukam of His Command. ||26|| (Ramkali Mehla 3 Anand ,at ang 920 OF SGGS JI )

So they should remove their facial hair? Or am I misunderstanding what you're implying? :|

^^^ ਲੈਹ ਲੈਹ ਲੈਹ, ਲੈਹ ਦੇਖੀਂ ਤਾਂ !! ਐਡਮਿਨ ਬਾਬਾ ਵੀ ਲੱਗਾ ਪਰਚਾਰ ਕਰਨ !! ਬੱਲੇ ਤੇਰੀ ਸਿੰਘਾ, ਕਿੱਥੇ ਲੁੱਕ ਕੇ ਬੈਠਾ ਸੀ ??

You are looking at sikh dharam by wearing protestant christian lens rather than traditional indic lens. Satguru nanak dev maharaj didn't "attain" enlightened, they were avtars and they were already enlightened. You should read divine miraculous sakhiya around guru nanak dev ji birth and before satguru maharaj ji went to the river.

What's the need to even declare that you are a Muslim? Why do you have to put that Muslim slogan in your signature? If you really didn't want to ruffle any feathers, then you would just come here and ask about Sikhism, without indirectly promoting your own faith. People have directed you towards videos and other things, but you say "Oh, I watched it but I didn't gain anything, and everyone was attacking me because I am a Muslim." People aren't crazy, they won't attack you unless you give them a reason. I doubt you even watched the videos. You quote Sakhis of Guru Nanak, but then don't give sources. You say, "Oh, it was in all the books I read about him." Really? You can't give us a name of a single one of them? You still haven't answered why your avatar is a picture if you without a hijab, when you stated in your original post you have started to wear your hijab. Also, what about your Sikh friends? Why haven't you asked them these questions? You haven't even asked your Sikh "lover". You said he was more religious now, so he should be able to answer some of your queries. All these things considered, lead me to believe that you are here to waste our time and question our own faith. When you ask a question, you are not satisfied with any of the answers. So your aim seems to be to question Sikh beliefs, and not actually learn anything.

I bet you must have loved that show 24 with Jack Bauer.

yes ive seen one of these 180 days after attack on Golden Temple before, and i thought it was true, but after research i thought it was just some gimmick to make Sikhs look like good avengers. I wonder what Ajeet Singh Punjabi would make of this ?

The tradition of Langar was started by Guru Nanak Dev Ji when they fed the poor, the needy and the destitute and the Gurughars have been carrying on this tradition ever since, but have we lost the essence of what it was all about? Gurus lanagar is pavittar and shoud be eaten with caution. This is not a time to fill our stomachs to the full, demanding all sorts of extras to go along with the langar. Many a time one can see sangat in the langar hall eat three, four rotis, with the sabzi swimming in copious amounts of butter, but this is not my point. Each has their own way, who am I to say who is right and who is wrong. But a word of caution. Very rarely is langar made with nishkaam. Very rarely is it made without some sukhna being embedded into it. It should be made with a clear mind only attached to Gurus charan. When people get an ailment of some sort, be it painful knees (goday dhukday, yaar) or back pain or headaches etc many will go to the Gurdwara, which is a good thing, but they will pick up some sugar, or milk or ghee and think that by making the offering it will ease their pain. That is all it takes! The thought has now attached itself with the ‘parshad’ and as that tickee of butter winds its way into the sabzi so does the karma of the painful knee. Now multiply that with all the other karama/thoughts attached to all the other offerings taken to the Gurdwara and you then have a langar that has now taken on an altogether different flavour. Add to that the thoughts and longings of the people who make the langar and it goes even further. Now people sit in line and eat three, four makee-the-roti with lashings of saag, with three knobs of butter and they will ask for two glasses of lassie, followed by jalabies and sweet chawl, then they wonder why they don’t feel so good. They then will take gallons of milk home and use that in their own cooking! It has to do with the lack of nutritional value and high cholesterol food for sure, but more importantly it has to do with all that is attached to the food that we cannot see, the suckhnas, the longings, the pleadings, the desires. So the advice would be, by all means eat langar, but keep it in moderation and if possible try to do a little sewa as that will even things out a little.

:respect: :respect:

yh.................................................. so, this magic, it might be real. don't worry about it stay away from weird people.

First, let me give you the definition of a Muslim according to Guru Sahib...

On a another note, How could a anakhi sikh of sri guru gobind singh ji maharaj does such a lame job on kuldeep s brar and but importantly go in hiding instead of smiling surrending to officals for breaking the british law. Watch the movie the interperter where curropt CIA offical try to assassinate war criminal in U.N to re-gain credibility for war criminal. Almost assassinated leader gets more credibility than leaders which hasn't been touched at all ...in the real world view..!!!!!!!!! WAKE UP YOU GUYS..!!! They are making us look like taliban, fanatics and fuddus..!!

What is physical about God?

Well, the moon pulls on water because of gravity. It's not magnetism. The tides get larger when the moon is out, because the force of gravity is pulling stronger. Since water is a liquid, it is more easily swayed, than solids.

Guru Nanak was not God. None of the Gurus were God. Guru Gobind Singh said that anyone who calls him a God will burn in hell. No man who was ever born and died is a God. I believe there were other enlightened souls before Guru Nanak, and after him as well. However, I agree with Guru Nanak's teaching most. That is why I call myself a Sikh.

Dear ctk the message/life of the Prophet is uncomparable to Guru Nanak Dev Ji. Why are there so many allegations against the Prophet from all quarters of the world, yet whoever reads about Guru Nanak Dev Ji cannot find one fault with his life/character/teachings? Why is it that every religion claims that Guru Nanak DEv ji was theirs? Hindus, muslims, buddhists, all claim that Guru Sahib is one of theirs. This is because of His greatness, but does the prophet receive any of this from the kafirs? There is absolutely no way that Guru Nanak Dev Ji came to earth to remind everyone of what the prophet said centuries earlier.

Osingh ji, If you read my post carefully i m pointed out hypocrisy, robotic recitation of naam, gurbani,robotic self reflection without any emotions/prem or stages in the hand. I am trying to follow foot steps of sri guru gobind singh ji maharaj who has clearly said in the sri akaal ustat sahib- prem and naam simran with prem is shraist. If following the foot steps if i am pissing off over zealous chelas of all jatha's and samparda's so be it. I am pointed out hypocrisy/robotic gurbani recitation or idolizing certain gyan/idiolizing sargun image and wrapping their head around it which shared by mindset effected sikhs from all jatha's and samparda's hence my 3rd post in this thread: I will re-quote my post again" So please stop with your patronizing techniques and make me some sort of villian via guilt trips- i even gave credit where its due provided bairaagi kirtan by gyani amalok singh ji akj with baba mohinder singh ji in the first intial post- did u get to listen to it?. I am hated by over zealous chelas of all jatha/ samparda- right hate me, left hate me, center they find me too sour. Maharaj bless me with seva of pointing out hypocrisy and poiting out beautiful sargun rituals/naam simran turned into dogma..i will continue to do the seva of bring awareness in these types of under the carpet issues. I am used to with intimidation tactics by self righteous over zealous chelas from all jatha's and samparda's got many threats in the past. I take these threats as pinch of salt.

Here are two excerpts from a page on Facebook which u may like to read which answer ur assertion. WAS BABA NANAK A MUSLIM? Many misguided muslim brothers believe Baba Nanak was a muslim. Here we will answer their misguided assertions. But first who is a muslim? According to their own definition a muslim is: 1.) No one worthy of worship but Allah. 2.) Prophet Mohammed the last messenger of God. 3.) Lives by the teachings of Islam. Now the Sikh concept however is different: 1.) One Creator, God but we can merge with this creator and become one with him. Guru is already one with God. 2.) Guru Nanak is Guru and not prophet Mohammad. We can bow to Guru Sahib, praise him and serve him. Why? As he is fully merged with one. Even though he is human he has Waheguru inside him using him as a platform. Guru Arjan Dev Ji tells us: Gur Parmeshwar eko jaan, Jo tis Bhavae so Parvaan. (M5). Know that Guru is one with God. If we please Guru we will be honoured in his court. Now Guru Nanak Dev Ji also calls himself a messenger of God, if he was muslim this would be sacrilege as muslims only believe in Prophet Mohammad and those before him as messengers. Many people say later Guru's changed Guru Ji's Bani. These people can still access the pothis at various Gurudwaras and see Guru Ji's notebooks and what he wrote in them. It would be very hard to change what was already written as each Guru used it as the basis for his Bani. We as Sikhs however believe all Gurus were one jot, Guru Nanak Dev Ji in different forms. Lets look at Guru Ji's life history first: 1.) Guru Ji was born into a Hindu family. His father's name was Mehta Kalu, mother's Tripta Devi and sister's Nanaki. 2.) Due to his family being Hindu Guru Ji first studied in a Hindu school. At this point there is no proof of him coming into contact with Islamic theology. 3.) Later Guru Ji went to a muslim school to learn. However there is no indication, even in history there, that Guru Ji said shahdat or Islamic declaration of faith. 4.) Guru Ji's emphasis on oneness with God was unique however oneness of God isn't a concept unique to Islam only. Christianity and Judaism believe in oneness of God and at the time Bhagti movement was prevalent in India when Guru Ji was growing up. Which also preached the oneness of God. 5.) Guru Sahib's marriage. By this time Guru ji would have finished his studies from both pandit and maulvi. Who did he get married to? Seeing how India was a diverse nation at the time, power however was with the muslim minority. A non-muslim marrying a muslim was out of the question however. Mehta Kalu arranged Guru Ji's marriage with Mata Sulakhni, daughter of Mool Chand and Chando Rani; both Hindus from Batala. Now how did Guru Ji get married? There is no proof of him going around agni as Hindus do or doing Nikkah. Instead Guru Ji wrote Ik-Onkaar on a piece of paper and went around that with his wife. This so infuriated the high-caste Brahims that they tried killing him by throwing a crumbling wall on him but Guru Ji stopped the wall. This wall is still preserved in Pakistan. Now another indication is that Sulakhni is not an Islamic name. And no Maulvi or Qazi were present at the wedding. 6.) Now lets look at the names of Guru Sahib's children. Baba Sri Chand and Lakhmi Dass. Knowing how Guru Ji uses names of Hindu Gods and Muslim names for Gods for Waheguru we can easily say these names had no Hindu meaning. However they do not sound Muslim at all or carry any Islamic meaning. 7.) It is an accepted fact that Guru Nanak Dev Ji after emerging from Bein Nadi said "There is no hindu nor Muslim." Now if Guru Nanak was a muslim imagine what would have been done to him. He was denying the faith he was born in! 8.) Guru Nanak Dev Ji writes in Bani that he was a Dhadhi, a ministrel. A musician without a job. Now music is not often associated with Islam. There are fatwas against it and with it. One can reach the conclusion total music is a waste of time in Islam. Guru Ji however said he was a permanent musician. In fact he and Bhai Mradanna had a rawab and Guru Ji advocated Kirtan. 9.) Guru Ji did not discuss or teach from the koran, which again would be a sacrilege for a muslim he discussed and taught mainly from his own writings and sang from them. Again another taboo in Islam. 10.) Guru Ji went to a mosque. Yes and he went to temples. In both places he refused to observe costumes and join in with the worshippers. Why? Because as Guru Ji said both Hindus and muslims follow the wrong concept of God. Muslims took Guru Ji to a mosque to prove there were muslims. But there he did not join in with them in namaz. When after namaz he was asked by Qazi and Nawab why he did not join in he told them that no one was praying correctly, as their minds were elsewhere. They did not know how to pray. If he was a true muslim, irregardless of what others thought he would have still did namaz. According to Islam only Allah is allowed to know one's mind or whats inside one. Al-Ghyab or the invisible world. Guru Ji however was the messenger of God and not 100% God himself, yet he still knew what was in everyone's minds. Another differentiation from Islam on this point, as Guru and God are both Antarjami. 11.) Guru Ji had a musim friend Mardanna with him on his travels. But Mardanna, no indication has been given, ever did namaz or followed Islam despite being born in a muslim family. He also helped Guru Ji sing his bani, a message outside the Koran. The Koran forbids spreading messages from other sources as both Guru Ji and Mardanna were doing. Also Bhai Mardanna's bani is in Guru Granth Sahib: ਸਲੋਕ੝ ਮਰਦਾਨਾ ੧ ॥ सलोकढ़ मरदाना १ ॥ Salok marḝĝnĝ 1. Shalok, Mardaanaa: ਕਲਿ ਕਲਵਾਲੀ ਕਾਮ੝ ਮਦ੝ ਮਨੂਆ ਪੀਵਣਹਾਰ੝ ॥ कलि कलवाली कामढ़ मदढ़ मनूआ पीवणहारढ़ ॥ Kal kalvĝlī kĝm maḝ manūĝ pīvaṇhĝr. The Dark Age of Kali Yuga is the vessel, filled with the wine of sexual desire; the mind is the drunkard. ਕ੝ਰੋਧ ਕਟੋਰੀ ਮੋਹਿ ਭਰੀ ਪੀਲਾਵਾ ਅਹੰਕਾਰ੝ ॥ कढ़रोध कटोरी मोहि भरी पीलावा अहंकारढ़ ॥ Kroḝẖ katorī mohi bẖarī pīlĝvĝ ahaʼnkĝr. Anger is the cup, filled with emotional attachment, and egotism is the server. ਮਜਲਸ ਕੂੜੇ ਲਬ ਕੀ ਪੀ ਪੀ ਹੋਇ ਖ੝ਆਰ੝ ॥ मजलस कूड़े लब की पी पी होइ खढ़आरढ़ ॥ Majlas kūṛė lab kī pī pī hoė kẖuĝr. Drinking too much in the company of falsehood and greed, one is ruined. ਕਰਣੀ ਲਾਹਣਿ ਸਤ੝ ਗ੝ੜ੝ ਸਚ੝ ਸਰਾ ਕਰਿ ਸਾਰ੝ ॥ करणी लाहणि सतढ़ गढ़ड़ढ़ सचढ़ सरा करि सारढ़ ॥ Karṇī lĝhaṇ saṯ guṛ sacẖ sarĝ kar sĝr. So let good deeds be your distillery, and Truth your molasses; in this way, make the most excellent wine of Truth. ਗ੝ਣ ਮੰਡੇ ਕਰਿ ਸੀਲ੝ ਘਿਉ ਸਰਮ੝ ਮਾਸ੝ ਆਹਾਰ੝ ॥ गढ़ण मंडे करि सीलढ़ घिउ सरमढ़ मासढ़ आहारढ़ ॥ Guṇ mandė kar sīl gẖio saram mĝs ĝhĝr. Make virtue your bread, good conduct the ghee, and modesty the meat to eat. ਗ੝ਰਮ੝ਖਿ ਪਾਈਝ ਨਾਨਕਾ ਖਾਧੈ ਜਾਹਿ ਬਿਕਾਰ ॥੧॥ गढ़रमढ़खि पाईझ नानका खाधै जाहि बिकार ॥१॥ Gurmukẖ pĝīai nĝnkĝ kẖĝḝẖai jĝhi bikĝr. ||1|| As Gurmukh, these are obtained, O Nanak; partaking of them, one's sins depart. ||1|| ਮਰਦਾਨਾ ੧ ॥ मरदाना १ ॥ Marḝĝnĝ 1. Mardaanaa: ਕਾਇਆ ਲਾਹਣਿ ਆਪ੝ ਮਦ੝ ਮਜਲਸ ਤ੝ਰਿਸਨਾ ਧਾਤ੝ ॥ काइआ लाहणि आपढ़ मदढ़ मजलस तढ़रिसना धातढ़ ॥ Kĝiĝ lĝhaṇ ĝp maḝ majlas ṯarisnĝ ḝẖĝṯ. The human body is the vat, self-conceit is the wine, and desire is the company of drinking buddies. ਮਨਸਾ ਕਟੋਰੀ ਕੂੜਿ ਭਰੀ ਪੀਲਾਝ ਜਮਕਾਲ੝ ॥ मनसा कटोरी कूड़ि भरी पीलाझ जमकालढ़ ॥ Mansĝ katorī kūṛ bẖarī pīlĝė jamkĝl. The cup of the mind's longing is overflowing with falsehood, and the Messenger of Death is the cup-bearer. ਇਤ੝ ਮਦਿ ਪੀਤੈ ਨਾਨਕਾ ਬਹ੝ਤੇ ਖਟੀਅਹਿ ਬਿਕਾਰ ॥ इतढ़ मदि पीतै नानका बहढ़ते खटीअहि बिकार ॥ Iṯ maḝ pīṯai nĝnkĝ bahuṯė kẖatīah bikĝr. Drinking in this wine, O Nanak, one takes on countless sins and corruptions. ਗਿਆਨ੝ ਗ੝ੜ੝ ਸਾਲਾਹ ਮੰਡੇ ਭਉ ਮਾਸ੝ ਆਹਾਰ੝ ॥ गिआनढ़ गढ़ड़ढ़ सालाह मंडे भउ मासढ़ आहारढ़ ॥ Giĝn guṛ sĝlĝh mandė bẖao mĝs ĝhĝr. So make spiritual wisdom your molasses, the Praise of God your bread, and the Fear of God the meat you eat. ਨਾਨਕ ਇਹ੝ ਭੋਜਨ੝ ਸਚ੝ ਹੈ ਸਚ੝ ਨਾਮ੝ ਆਧਾਰ੝ ॥੨॥ नानक इहढ़ भोजनढ़ सचढ़ है सचढ़ नामढ़ आधारढ़ ॥२॥ Nĝnak ih bẖojan sacẖ hai sacẖ nĝm ĝḝẖĝr. ||2|| O Nanak, this is the true food; let the True Name be your only Support. ||2|| ਕਾਂਯਾਂ ਲਾਹਣਿ ਆਪ੝ ਮਦ੝ ਅੰਮ੝ਰਿਤ ਤਿਸ ਕੀ ਧਾਰ ॥ कांयां लाहणि आपढ़ मदढ़ अमढ़रित तिस की धार ॥ Kĝʼnyĝʼn lĝhaṇ ĝp maḝ amriṯ ṯis kī ḝẖĝr. If the human body is the vat, and self-realization is the wine, then a stream of Ambrosial Nectar is produced. ਸਤਸੰਗਤਿ ਸਿਉ ਮੇਲਾਪ੝ ਹੋਇ ਲਿਵ ਕਟੋਰੀ ਅੰਮ੝ਰਿਤ ਭਰੀ ਪੀ ਪੀ ਕਟਹਿ ਬਿਕਾਰ ॥੩॥ सतसंगति सिउ मेलापढ़ होइ लिव कटोरी अमढ़रित भरी पी पी कटहि बिकार ॥३॥ Saṯsangaṯ sio mėlĝp hoė liv katorī amriṯ bẖarī pī pī kateh bikĝr. सतसंगति सिउ मेलापु होइ लिव कटोरी अम्रित भरी पी पी कटहि बिकार ॥३॥ Meeting with the Society of the Saints, the cup of the Lord's Love is filled with this Ambrosial Nectar; drinking it in, one's corruptions and sins are wiped away. ||3|| Again Bhai Ji's Bani takes a different part from Islamic teachings. We will have more including the journey to Mecca. However muslim brothers are still free to believe in Guru Nanak as Jagat Guru and apply his teachings about the nature of God in their lives. WAS BABA NANAK A MUSLIM? PART 2. 1.)Did Guru Ji actually go to Mecca? Yes he did, and there are many sufi saints who confirm this; especially those who follow Sian Mian Mir. But Sikhs have their own proof, recorded by Bhai Gurdass Ji. Bhai Gurdass was the nephew of the third Guru, Guru Amardass Ji, around this time ithiaas of Guru Nanak Dev Ji was well known and Bhai Sahib was well versed in it. He used sources from the time to compose his vaar, as follows: Displaying Vaar 1, Pauri 32 of 49 ੩੨ : ਮੱਕੇ ਦੀ ਯਾਤ੍ਰਾ ਬਾਬਾ ਫਿਰਿ ਮਕੇ ਗਇਆ ਨੀਲ ਬਸਤ੍ਰ ਧਾਰੇ ਬਨਵਾਰੀ। Baabaa Dhiri Makay Gaiaa Neel Basatr Dhaaray Banavaaree. बाबा फिरि मੴके गइआ नील बसत्र धारे बनवारी । Donning blue attire then Baba Nanak went to Mecca. 1 ਵਾਰਾਂ ਭਾਈ ਗੁਰਦਾਸ : ਵਾਰ ੧ ਪਉੜੀ ੩੨ ਪੰ. ੧ ਆਸਾ ਹਥਿ ਕਿਤਾਬ ਕਛਿ ਕੂਜਾ ਬਾਂਗ ਮੁਸਲਾ ਧਾਰੀ। Aasaa Hadi Kitaab Kachhi Koojaa Baang Mousalaa Dhaaree. आसा हथि किताब कछि कूजा बांग मुसੴला धारी । He held staff in his hand, pressed a book under his armpit, caught hold of a metal pot and mattress. 2 ਵਾਰਾਂ ਭਾਈ ਗੁਰਦਾਸ : ਵਾਰ ੧ ਪਉੜੀ ੩੨ ਪੰ. ੨ ਬੈਠਾ ਜਾਇ ਮਸੀਤ ਵਿਚਿ ਜਿਥੈ ਹਾਜੀ ਹਜਿ ਗੁਜਾਰੀ। Baitdaa Jaai Maseet Vichi Jidai Haajee Haji Gujaaree. बैठा जाइ मसीत विचि जिथै हाजी हजि गुजारी । Now he sat in a mosque where the pilgrms (hajis) had gathered. 3 ਵਾਰਾਂ ਭਾਈ ਗੁਰਦਾਸ : ਵਾਰ ੧ ਪਉੜੀ ੩੨ ਪੰ. ੩ ਜਾ ਬਾਬਾ ਸੁਤਾ ਰਾਤਿ ਨੋ ਵਲਿ ਮਹਰਾਬੇ ਪਾਇ ਪਸਾਰੀ। Jaa Baabaa Soutaa Raati No Vali Maharaabay Paai Pasaaree. जा बाबा सुता राति नो वलि महराबे पाइ पसारी । When Baba (Nanak) slept in the night spreading his legs towards the alcove of mosque at Kaba, 4 ਵਾਰਾਂ ਭਾਈ ਗੁਰਦਾਸ : ਵਾਰ ੧ ਪਉੜੀ ੩੨ ਪੰ. ੪ ਜੀਵਣਿ ਮਾਰੀ ਲਤਿ ਦੀ ਕੇਹੜਾ ਸੁਤਾ ਕੁਫਰ ਕੁਫਾਰੀ? Jeevani Maaree Lati Dee Kayharhaa Soutaa Kudhar Kudhaaree. जीवणि मारी लति दी केहड़ा सुता कुफर कुफारी । The qazi named Jivan kicked him and asked who was this infidel enacting blasphemy. 5 ਵਾਰਾਂ ਭਾਈ ਗੁਰਦਾਸ : ਵਾਰ ੧ ਪਉੜੀ ੩੨ ਪੰ. ੫ ਲਤਾ ਵਲਿ ਖੁਦਾਇਦੇ ਕਿਉ ਕਰਿ ਪਇਆ ਹੋਇ ਬਜਿਗਾਰੀ। Lataa Vali Khudaai Day Kiu Kari Paiaa Hoi Bajigaaree. लता वलि खुदाइ दे किउ करि पइआ होइ बजिगारी । Why this sinner is sleeping his legs spread towards God, Khuda. 6 ਵਾਰਾਂ ਭਾਈ ਗੁਰਦਾਸ : ਵਾਰ ੧ ਪਉੜੀ ੩੨ ਪੰ. ੬ ਹੋਇ ਹੈਰਾਨੁ ਕਰੇਨਿ ਜੁਹਾਰੀ ॥੩੨॥ Hoi Hairaanu Karayni Juhaaree ॥32॥ होइ हैरानु करेनि जुहारी ॥३२॥ All got surprised and they all bowed. 8 ਵਾਰਾਂ ਭਾਈ ਗੁਰਦਾਸ : ਵਾਰ ੧ ਪਉੜੀ ੩੨ ਪੰ. ੮ (We will put up the entire Vaar soon but let us now stick to the discussion at hand). It is often said when Guru Ji went to Mecca he carried a blue robe with Koranic verses on it. When Guru Ji went on his travels, he would stay away from home and not come back for long periods. In theses periods clothing he carried would be gifts given to him, henceforth the robe. Now if Guru Ji was muslim he would have passed the robe onto the next Guru but no, he gave it away. 2.) But wouldn't the Koranic verses indicate Guru Ji was muslim irregardless of what he did with the robe? Surely there must be more to being a muslim then having a Koran or a cloth with Koranic verses? Today libraries and many theologians have Korans but does that make them muslim? Already we have discussed yesterday how Baba Nanak did not use Koran as basis of his teachings, even though he respected the Koran he did not believe in it's teachings. There is a world of difference between respecting and believing. 3.) What about Guru Ji's dress? Wasn't he wearing a turban? As demonstrated in the above vaar Guru Ji wore blue, the turban however is article of cloth spread throughout the east. And not all muslims wear it, many Hindus also wore a turban back then. Guru Nanak Dev however had a distinct style one in which his jura would show. At this time Mecca was a desert city, so it is more than likely a large amount of the population would have worn Keffiyahs. 4.) If Guru Nanak Dev Ji was a non-muslim then how did he gain entry into Mecca? Non-muslims are not allowed in. From circa700 A.D. to 1803 A.D. Mecca was under Caliphs linked to the Turkish Ottoman empire. They allowed non-muslims free access to Mecca because it was a desert city and a good trading location and also because they, the Caliphs, believed that non-muslims would see Mecca and become Muslims. So Guru Nanak Dev Ji easily got into Mecca. It was only after Mecca was in the hands of the Wahabbis, Saudi Arabai. in the 1900's that strict non-muslim laws were forced. 5.) Did Guru Ji do Hajj? An important and basic factor of Hajj is to go to Mina, and then to Mount Arafat the next day. There is no indication that Guru Ji ever did this. If Guru Ji was muslim then he would definitely have gone to Mina, as Hajj is the 5th pillar of Islam. Another important factor regarding Mecca is that no Guru after Guru Ji went to Mecca, nor did Guru Ji ever advocate to the Sikhs or any other Gurus to go to Mecca. This is what he said: 6.) What are the Guru's beliefs on Pilgrimages etc? I do not make pilgrimages to Mecca, nor do I worship at Hindu sacred shrines. I serve the One Lord, and not any other. ||2|| I do not perform Hindu worship services, nor do I offer the Muslim prayers. I have taken the One Formless Lord into my heart; I humbly worship Him there. ||3|| (Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Ang 1136) 7.) Guru Nanak Dev Ji only went to Mecca didn't he? No he also went to Hindu and Buddhist places of worship as well, and now there is proof of evangelical places and places of other primitive belief's centre of worship. Now if he was a muslim this would have been forbidden to him. Heres another interesting point that Guru Ji also slept with his feet pointing towards Kabba. If he was a true muslim why would he do this? 8.) What was the book that Guru Nanak Dev Ji was carrying with him? When the qazis and mullahs had fallen at Guru Ji's feet they asked him to tell them something from his book. Now if this book was the Koran why would they ask in the first place? As they too would have had Korans. And why would they call it just a "book." Why not Koran? 9.) What was the Guru's reply to who was better Hindu or muslim? Guru Ji replied without good deeds, actions both are invaild in the house of God religion-wise. Now if he was muslim he would have said a muslim is better, not a Hindu. 10.) Proof of Guru Ji's rejecting of Koranic teachings? This was in Bagdhad, Iraq. Pir Dastagir told Guru Ji that the Koran said that there were seven heavens and hells. Guru Ji however writes in Japji Sahib: "Patala Patal Lakh. Agasa Agas." There are 100,000s of heavens, hells and dimensions. Again another different ideology from Islam.

Whatever you said is your own opinion and you're free to have it. But its best not to speak for all Singhs as I doubt you have come across the real deal Singhs who are totally different from the likes of you and me. See now I should speak for myself, who knows you're possibly way ahead of me Sikhiwise. That is my point.

Word AUM refers to trinity of Hinduism i.e. Vishnu, Brahma and Shiv who create, destroy and sustain the creation. This is not monotheistic. I agree Vedas have some element of truth but concept of God is monistic and sometimes pantheistic. Please study the difference between these. God is Upnishds is not personal, not actively involved in the world and without any attributes. Some mantras give completely pantheistic viewpoint of God making the creation an extension or body of God. In other words, they consider creation and the Creator equal and identical. This is against Gurmat. Sikh scholars and Hindu scholars fully endorse this viewpoint. Please see Daljeet Singh’s book on comparative mysticism, Shashi Bala’s book Concept of Monotheism, Dr. Rohi’s book on Monotheism and Dasgupta’s book on Indian Philosophy. Bhai Sahib, what do you mean by Nirgun gyan? At one point you say Nirgun is without attributes then you talk about Nirgun gyan. Two are contradictory. If Nirgun is devoid of any attributes then there is no gyan. All names of God are sacred and divine. I have no problem with any of the names. Please provide any proof that Bhai Daya Singh Ji used to give different mantars. This is contrary to Gurmat. There is only one Gurmantar. Sampardas may do whatever they wish but it does not become Gurmat. Gurbani does not support meditation upon just any name. Bhai Gurdas Ji also rejects this practice. I rather believe him than any samparda that has no proof to substantiate their lineage. Everyone’s avastha is different but this does not change Gurmat at all. All are and must be given the same Gurmantar for meditation. Please provide any proof. Your understanding of Nirgun and Sargun is wholly incongruent. Bhai Vir Singh, Bhai Randhir Singh, Subedar Baghel Singh and other gursikhs who have achieved union with Waheguru do not support your viewpoint. Bhai Vir Singh in his books (Guru Nanak Chamatkaar and others) states that as one meditates upon Gurmantar, he starts to acquire God-like attributes and eventually becomes one with God. Simran increases as spirituality increases. One remains absorbed in Naam forever. It never stops. I think those who claim otherwise are simply making empty claims without any proof from Gurbani. You still did not provide any proof from Gurbani. So you are stating that gursikhs like Bhai Gurdas Ji, Bhai Vir Singh and rehatnamas are wrong? Is Gurbani wrong to clearly give an injunction to meditate upon Gurmantar and not any other mantar? How can we call ourselves Sikhs and not follow Gurbani at the same time? Do you consider sampardas above Gurbani and Vaars? Please read some books by Bhai Vir Singh Ji and Bhai Randhir Singh Ji. No one can convince you but yourself. Guru Rakha

Love watching this video. Seen it many times before but still get something every time. ...and yet some people have the audacity to say Sant Jarnail Singh Khalsa Bhindranwale's Gurmat knowledge isn't deep.

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Throughtout my life I haven't been good speaking punjabi. Being born a punjabi my parents thought that I'd learn naturally with them like my sisters did, but the problem was that my sisters didnt speak english with anyone so they didnt need it when they were young. Its hard for my parents to teach me directly too cause of the language barrier. I speak Full english and a little punjabi, they speak full punjabi and a little english so its hard to ask them what something means and how I say it. Now I'm 15 and want to step it up and learn and become one with my culture because I kinda feel far from it. What are some ways I can learn punjabi online or at home (books, etc.) I'm moving back to Brampton next year and plan to find a teacher to help me progress but for now i'm in a punjabi-less city lol Tips?

Speak only for yourself please.

i see no turban.........

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012/09/14/religious-young-people-jew-sikh-buddhist-christian_n_1883948.html A survey published this week found more young people turning away from religion, believing that the definition of being "moral" meant looking after your family rather than taking part in religion. More than half of the 16 to 24-year-olds questioned in the poll said their peers were less concerned about morals than their parents' generation. Public perceptions often suggest that younger generations in Britain are less religious than their parents, but what happens to those who buck the trend? The Huffington Post UK spoke to people from five different faiths who have taken on much more stringent religious practice than their parents, from a city banker who now lives in a Buddhist commune, to a Sikh who worried his family with his faith. Read their stories and tell us your experiences about faith and religion, and whether you think they still hold relevance for today's youth, in the comments section below. Buddhist: Su Yen Tan SU YEN TAN, 30, YOGA TEACHER, BETHNAL GREEN, EAST LONDON I grew up in Malaysia in a Buddhist family, following a Chinese tradition, interwoven with Taoism. My family had a shrine at home, we would burn incense but we certainly were not vegetarian. That was pretty much it, although I do think the ethics of Buddhism filtered through to me. I went to a Catholic school, but I didn't convert, in fact, it made me more determined to be a Buddhist. I decided to buy my own figure for my own shrine when i was 17. It's one I still have. I dropped away from practicing when I moved to London and I was working in the city as an investment banker. I did attend the Buddhist temple on Oxford Street once or twice a year, but I don't speak very good Chinese, so I found it hard to connect. I made the decision on the spur of the moment to go on a spiritual Buddhist retreat, which I convinced myself was a yoga retreat. It wasn't, and I think I knew that deep down. It was really inspiring. I began with devotional practice and meditation. I quit my job in 2010, definitely a decision based on Buddhism, to live a more spiritual life. I am a vegetarian, and I live in a women's Buddhist community attached to the London Buddhist Centre. My siblings are very happy for me. It's certainly been very hard for my parents, I think they saw it as a rejection of their values. They are disappointed I am not married, living in the suburbs with two children. But they can see how much happier I am. Sikh: Harmeet Singh has become more confident since he became religious HARMEET SINGH, 23, BANK MANAGER AND VOLUNTEER POLICEMAN, LEICEISTER I certainly don't come from the most religious family, we are traditional Punjabis, used to go to the Sikh temple on a Sunday, and we were taught to believe in God but not much beyond that. There was a lack of the spiritual side. It seemed ritualist, what we were doing, and my parents and elders couldn't really explain why were doing what we were doing. I started to think, why am I doing this? I was about 19 when I started asking deeper questions, looking back on it now, I was probably looking to make a change in my life, heading off for university on a very uncertain path. There are a lot of pressures to do with the opposite sex, drinking culture. It was a way for me to control myself, in a way. I started researching Sikhism on the internet, looking at the teachings and the history. I was amazed about how much I didn't know. So much was different to what I had been taught, it's like the teachings were Chinese whispers that had got distorted. I used to spend my time watching TV or on the XBox, but now I'm reading, spending time with new people, playing classical Indian instruments. I have become so much more confident. A younger Harmeet, before he became religious My parents came to this country for a better life, worked so hard to give us shelter and put food on the table. They don't use a computer, they can't research this themselves and they don't have time. I think they were worried about me becoming religious, I don't eat meat, I have grown a beard and wear a turban. They were worried about me fitting in, whether i'd be able to get a job - and it's understandable. But as time has gone on, they have become less resistant to it. You do get extremists in any religion and I know they were worried about that. But I want to show them how balanced I am, in fact, it has made me more tolerant of all colours, types and faiths, as well as my own. PROPERTY MANAGER AVROHOM, 25, AND NURSEY TEACHER ROCHEL JASON, 24, HENDON, NORTH LONDON Avrohom: We both came from traditional families, we had strong Jewish identities but we were not particularly observant. I did go to a Jewish school, but my wife, who grew up in America, didn't. But we were certainly proud to be Jewish. We both went to the University of Sussex, and we started attending Friday night dinners and festivals organised by a Jewish charity called Chabad, run by Rabbi Lewis in Brighton. The process was very gradual. Jewish law is very complex, like dietary laws and laws for the observance of Shabbat. I think most of all I was inspired by the learning and the texts and allowed them to permeate. Now we have completely changed our lives in every single respect, it has been a truly amazing thing. Rochel: We were actually exploring more and more about Judaism independently of each other, not because of meeting one another. I don't think we could go from doing nothing to doing everything. You learn about a certain law you should observe and then you think, 'OK, well, I'm going to try and do this myself.' Some boys I know who became religious wanted to start putting on tefillin [a set of small black leather boxes containing scrolls of parchment inscribed with verses from the Torah, which are worn by observant Jews during weekday morning prayers] straight away, others want to start by not driving on Shabbat. If there ever was a barrier between us and our families before, it has gone now we have had our baby, our parents are just so desperate to see their grandson! He has given everyone a new focus, when you look at a child, he loves all of his family, no matter who they are. It has given us so much happiness, there is something really beautiful about being true to a tradition and a way of life that has been followed for thousands of years. Christian: James Hellem attends church twice every Sunday JAMES HELLEM, 29, HEALTH PHYSICIST, FROM SILCHESTER, HAMPSHIRE My parents don't really go to church, I used to go with them very occasionally growing up, I went to a CofE school and a Christian youth club from age 11 to 15. I was young when I started going to church more, around 13. But it was when I went to university in 2006 that I really started to take it seriously. Now, I attend church twice every Sunday, every week. I did physics at university, and I'm sure that was about trying to understand the world better, how things work. I realised that physics can't explain everything. Now I try to follow what it says in the Bible about how to live, it has made me much more confident about what I can and can't achieve with my life. Neither of my brothers have any interest but my parents have actually been positive about it. Sometimes they think it is silly giving money to a church, I think that's the only part they have any concern about. When I first began going to church regularly, I wanted to talk about it all the time and tell everyone about it. I have become really conscious of not sounding preachy, it really gets people's backs up, it can upset and annoy them.

Step one: Go to: http://fateh.sikhnet.../CyberHukamnama Step two: Do Ardaas as usual in which you ask your question, tell Guru Ji about your issue and ask Guru Ji for a Hukamnama. Step three: Click "Take Hukamnama" I think you may need to click on "Click on the icon to view this Shabad seperated" if it takes you to a middle of a Shabad, im not 100% sure though.

My mom told me not to sleep in the way i've been sleeping because my feet are towards a certain direction. When someone dies, they put him in that way so his/her feet are in that direction. Im like whatever. Sant Jarnail Singh Ji Bhindranwale said that Sikhism is not for weak hearted. The greatest gem that Guru Granth Sahib Ji gives us is that of shaheedi. I heard in a katha that there are about 82,000 different situations (I may be wrong with the # but its definitely over 70,000) that are considered by Hindus before they step out of their house. Situations such as: leaving at the right time for something; waiting if someone sneezes; if the cat crosses the path etc. Like there different mantras and chantings that i can't get my head across. Im not demeaning Hinduism. If thats their religion then its the best for them. However, if you're a Sikh then the "mool mantar" takes care of everything. Maybe you should tell your neighbor that if they're going to buy a house that is in a certain direction, then they should keep in their minds thousands of other things and doing things accordingly?

BHAI BALWANT SINGH RAJOANA TO BE HANGED TILL DEATH ON 31, MARCH AT PATIALA (FORMER CHIEF MINISTER BEANT SINGH MURDER CASE) BREAKING NEWS H S Bawa Jalandhar, March 13- Bhai Balwant Singh Rajoana, who had been awarded capital punishment in the case of murder of former Chief Minister Beant Singh shall be hanged on 31st of March at Patiala. His is a rare case where an accused in a murder case, after being awarded death penalty, had not only chosen not to go for an appeal but even kept on asking to hang him as early as possible. Orders about his execution have been passed by Chandigarh Additional District & Sessions Judge, Shalini S Nagpal and sent to Jail authorities. He will be hanged till death at 9.00 AM on Saturday the 31st of March. Bhai Rajoana who is in Patiala Jail has been served the orders, it has been learnt. Bhai Rajoana is at present lodged in Central Jail, Patiala. He was to present himself before Sh. Vivek Puri, Additional District & Sessions Judge Patiala in another case regarding recovery of RDX from him today but he was not brought into Court and the proceedings were reportedly conducted by way of video-conferencing. The case has been adjourned to March, 21, 2012. Congress Leader and Chief Minister of Punjab Beant Singh was assassinated at the Punjab secretariat on August 31, 1995. Dilwar Singh, a suicide bomber, killed the former CM along with 17 others in the attack, which also left 18 seriously injured. A charge sheet in this case was filed in November 1995. Six accused in the case including Bhai Balwant Singh Rajoanae were found guilty and convicted by Additional District & Sessions Judge (Chandigarh) Ravi Kumar Sondhi in the last week of July, 2007 for attempt to murder, murder and criminal conspiracy. The others who were convicted included Jagtar Singh Hawara, Shamsher Singh, Gurmeet Singh and Lakhwinder Singh. Another accused, Nasib Singh, was convicted under the Fire and Explosive Act. One of the accused Navjot Singh was acquitted. Only two of the accused Hawara and Rajoana were awarded capital punishment while three were awarded life imprisonment. As Bhai Rajoana had confessed his role in the case he refused to file an appeal before the Punjab & Haryana High Court, after he was awarded capital punishment by the Sessions Court at Chandigarh. He had in fact given in writing to the court that he does not want to go for an appeal. However Jagtar Singh Hawara and others petitioned High Court against the orders of the District & Sessions Court. Punjab & Haryana High Court on October 12, 2010 commuted the death sentenced of Hawara while upholding the death sentence awarded to Bhai Rajoana. Beant Singh Murder case had hit headlines again in January 2004 when Hawara, Tara and Paramjit Singh Bheora escaped from Burail jail. The police later nabbed Hawara and Bheora, but are yet to arrest Tara. While in Jail Bhai Rajoana had expressed to be blessed with ‘AMRIT’ and requested Akal Takht Jathedar Singh Sahib Giani Gurbachan Singh to come for baptizing him who specially came to the Jail to baptise him on June, 12, 2011 alongwith Baba Harnam Singh Khalsa, Chief of Damdami Taksal and president of the Gurmat Sidhant Parcharak Sant Samaj, former Akal Takht Jathedar Bhai Jasbir Singh Rode, Federation President Paramjit Singh Khalsa, Bhai Raghbir Singh Khalsa and Bhai Major Singh to fulfil the wish of Bhai Rajoana. In a will signed on June, 17, 2008 in the presence of his sister Kamaldeep Kaur, his brother in law Baljit Singh, his nephew Ajaydeep Singh, his niece Harnoor Kaur, Superintendent of the Model Jail Chandigarh, Navjot Pal Singh Randhawa, Medical officer, B. K. Salwan and other jail authorities Bhai Rajoana had expressed the wish that after his death his eyes be donated to Bhai Lakhwinder Singh Hazuri Ragi of Sri Darbar Sahib, Amritsar so that his eyes continue to have darshan of Darbar Sahib. Bhai Rajoana, in his will, had said that after his death any of his body parts, be given to anyone who needs them. Strongly criticizing Congress for doing great injustice to Sikhs Bhai Rajoana in an appeal issued on 3rd of January, 2012 had asked the panth to vote for Shiromani Akali Dal in the recently concluded Punjab Vidhan Sabha Elections. Bhai Rajoana is the son of late Malkit Singh and Bhajan Kaur. He was a constable with Punjab Police. He has an elder brother Kulwant Singh Rajoana and a sister Kamaldeep Kaur. English Translation of the Will of Bhai Balwant Singh Rajoana. Ik Onkar Oh Kabir, there is nothing of mine in this life Whatever is there, is yours If I surrender what is yours, unto Thee What do I lose or pay? (Bhagat Kabir, Guru Granth Sahib) Accepting the Omnipresence of Akal Purakh (God Almighty), I hereby swear on oath that after my death, all the parts of my body, which can benefit any person, are pledged to the highest temporal authority of the Sikhs, Sri Akal Takht Sahib. It is my earnest wish that after my death, my eyes may kindly be given to Hazuri Ragi of Sri Darbar Sahib Harmandar Sahib, Bhai Lakhwinder Singh, who is blind, so that through him, my eyes continue to revere holy Darbar Sahib. For medical or other reasons, in case this is not possible, then my eyes may be given to any other needy person. In addition to this any other part of my body (heart, kidney or any other) which can be beneficial to any other person, may be given to that person. I am writing this Will without any coercion or compulsion and out of my own convictions and commitment and with the approval of the members of my family. I am happily making this Will in the presence of my sister Kamaldeep Kaur, my brother in law Baljit Singh, my nephew Ajaydeep Singh, my niece Harnoor Kaur, Superintendent of the Model Jail Chandigarh, Navjot Pal Singh Randhawa ji, Medical office, B. K. Salwan and other jail authorities. Signed Balwant Singh Rajoana Countersigned by Kamaldeep Kaur Baljit Singh Ajaydeep Singh Navjot Pal Singh Randhawa Deputy Superintendent of Jails 17 June 2008 http://yespunjab.com/index.php/punjab-news/item/298-bhai-balwant-singh-rajoana-to-be-hanged-till-death-on-31st-of-march-former-chief-minister-beant-singh-murder-case