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The sgpc is more powerful than the jathedar. The sgpc is run by badal therefore they will only select jathedars that will not go against badal. As soon as a jathedar goes against badal the sgpc fill remove them and select someone else. The whole system needs to be changed. The jathedar should be selected by the Sikh panth not a political party which the sgpc has become. One good thing has come out of this movement. People are now more aware of just how much influence badal has over the sgpc and akal takht. We need a third option for the next elections that will for fight for Sikh causes. Maybe sardar Mann could unite with aam admi party? The panth needs to prepare now and not just before elections. All panthic jathebandis should help in forming a third party so that we can finally get some sort of justice. We will not get justice through congress or akal dal.

True words. Anyone who goes against Badal would be immediately removed from post of Jathadarship of Akal Takht. The only way to free Badal's control from Akal Takht is to free SGPC from Badal family. SGPC is the Sikh parliament. Right now all Sikh Jathabandis, Sant Samaj, Nihangs need to form a coalition to free SGPC from Badal.

I think the real culprit here is SGPC ! Dismantle this whole sangats' money eating machinery. There should be a Amritsar Spring revolution !

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH No less than the Sarbat Khalsa being summoned will be appropriate to remove the current Jathedar from his position. If it is somehow done without the Sarbat Khalsa meeting, the backlash is that Sikhi will be fractured into Jathebandis with no central authority to issue any Hukamnamas or unify the Panth under the Akaal Takht Sahib. THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT THE GOVERNMENT WANTS. Only Sarbat Khalsa can remove him. The government will put all obstacles in the Sikhs path to organize the Sarbat Khalsa (because the last time it met, Khalistan was declared. Big things happen when it meets) and will make every effort to dismantle, sideline, oppose from all fronts and use violence to prevent its occurance. Be warned: Simply calling for the Jathedar to be removed or, worse, ignoring the Jathedar's edicts (really of the Punj Singh Sahiban) will leave the Panth crippled and a prime target for victimization. No central Maryada will be enforced, no means of bringing grievances to a resolution will exist, all Jathebandis will be more siloed into their divisions (and may begin open animosity against each other) and the government will have that much of an easier time to make more inroads into Sikhi. Calm down, think this through. The Jathedar is not the problem. If there is one thing to do, it is to get rid of Badal parivar (the whole family - they are like the Gandhi-Nehru parivar - if one lives, he/she will take up the campaign against the Sikhs again) and make them all pay in such a dear fashion that the next one the government picks to be its replacement will think twice before ever crossing the Panth. May the Badal parivar meet such an end that all who even think of going down their path will shudder at the very thought of their end and think many times over before taking a government paycheck. And may the Panth make quick work of that next lineage that dares to oppose Sikhi in the form of a Sikh and remain ever vigilant.

What a joke! You get that sentence for murder not for wounding! Obviously Cameron has told the judge that they need to please India in order to get the next defence contract.

Will this really help to appoint a new Jathedar that will stand up for the Khalsa Panth? Badal will get rid of Gurbachan Singh and then appoint another one of his puppets who will politically win over many Sikhs, but nothing will change. Badal strong hold on Sikh institutions is causing a problem in the Khalsa Panth. SGPC is the same position as Jathedar of Akal Takht. They are given commands by Badal when to act and when to sit down. This problem will not be solved by simply removing the Akal Takht Jathedar. A political movement to overthrow Badal from his dictatorship will release Sikh institutions. Creating a new political party and having it run in elections. In the past Bhai Gurdev Singh ji Kaunke was tortured and murdered when he was Jathedar of Akal Takht. A Gursikh like Bhai Gurdev Singh Kaunke needs political backing to stay as Jathedar of Akal Takht.

Veerji theres no signature on this piece of paper....i am not the unparh of Panjab. They may be adept at pulling the wool over their eyes maybe, certainly not mine. If you are a WORTHY Jathedhar than come out in the open and say this loud for the world to hear,.....or just sign it, alas it appears that he doesn't have the courage to stand identified. This unsigned reiteration of everything that has been said for two weeks is an INSULT!!!!!

http://www.sikh24.com/2013/12/a-brief-biography-of-bhai-gurbakhsh-singh-khalsa-haryana/#.Up6ZMNJDvGA Bhai Gurbakhash Singh Khalsa is today’s hero of the Sikh freedom struggle who has energized and mobilized the freedom movement by demonstrating unprecedented determination and commitment in sacrificing himself for the release of Sikh freedom fighters who are still behind bars, even though their jail terms have been completed. Bhai Khalsa was born on December 12, 1965 at Thaska Ali (Distt. Kurukshetra, Haryana). His father’s name is Jathedar Ajit Singh and his mother is Bibi Mohinder Kaur. He has two brothers and one sister. He took primary and Gurmat education from Gurdwara Lakhnaur Sahib and also took Amrit from there. During his childhood, he used to take a keen interest in Gurmat due to the pro-Gurmat environment in his family. Whenever any religious congregation was held, he used to sing poems on the Chhote Sahibzade. Although he was a Gursikh from his childhood, he became dedicated completely to the Sikh nation after meeting Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale and from then on he began to spread Sikhi. The then rulers did not tolerate his mission and he was arrested in 1982. However, he kept on fulfilling his duties. He was married to Bibi Jasbir Kaur in 1987 with Gur Maryada and they were blessed with a son who was named Jujhar Singh. In 1986 to 1987, when the Indian state imposed a ban on the wearing of Kesri (orange) turbans by Sikhs, he was apprehended for some time for raising his voice against the ban. In 1994, once again he was arrested for allegedly delivering a so-called “radical” lecture. Afterwards, he was taken by police when they framed him in 10 new false cases. He remained in Police remand for almost two months and his wife was also humiliated and harassed. In 2010, Bhai Khalsa was awarded with 10 years rigorous imprisonment and fined 25,000 Rupees. For a small duration he was kept in Ambala Jail but he spent most of the time in Modern Jail Chandigarh. In Modern Jail, he met Jathedar Jagtar Singh Hawara and Bhai Jagtar Singh Bheora. Bhai Khalsa has severely suffered from the dual standards of the Indian state and he knows very well which conditions are being faced by the jailed Sikhs. Notwithstanding the completion of jail terms, they are decaying in jails and the unjust government is not releasing them. Bhai Khalsa says that the main motive of his fast is to get the detained Sikhs released from their political prisons and following the vision of Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale is his main duty. This article was originally published by Punjabi daily “Pehredar”.

Best way to approach this to form third poltical party in punjab register it for next election which addresses normal Aam Aadmi issues. Just recently Aam Aadmi Party won historical win in Delhi beating 50 year of Congress rule. If this can be done in delhi it can be done in punjab. Root issue is political power party in punjab which is badal not the jathedar.. We can replace as many jathedar we like without khalsa influence in main poltical party in power it's useless. We don't have monarch society anymore.. So this petition does not Adress the root issue. Panj singhs should go to bhai gurbkash singh to call this Hunger strike off as there is time and place for everything.. At this point poltical games are carried at all levels all appear to be panthic and non panthic groups. We need educated poltical spiritual group of sikhs form a party for next elections if people want to crush badal cancer from punjab. Innocent bhagat like bhai gurbkash singh ji will be victim of political game if he dies as no one really cares in punjab as they already accepted badal as their leader so until next election when people can see hope universal issues like poverty, drug, curroption, human right issue are addressed... That's the crux and deciding factor for all issues... Other than that ban aid fixes or rhetoric may not be useful to resolve long run issues.. Don't get me wrong it's good for awareness but not too point where one is dying over this... Panj should hakum to bhai sahib ji, may be use different approach . We all saw what happened during rajoana Factor.. There was public awareness for bit but after that all sikhs went about their daily chores.

I disagree with Baba Hari Singh Randhawa, he is also a part of Sant Samaj that supports Badal.

It seems the whole dawah crew act alike the same thing happened when the dawah guy who apologized and condemned grooming cases was guilted by his co-religionists into removing it. Imran (ibn [son of] mansur) Khan aka Imran Khan the dawah man lost the debate he started with Jagraj Singh Basics of Sikhi who clearly beat every point dawah man had and it's a shameful video for muhammaden. Instead the video has been taken off and kept amongst private muslim circles to examine to find flaws in the arguments and develop new tactics that they will teach to other smaller level dawah students i.e. brainwashing drones. The greatest problem that plagues pakistanis is how they can't admit to mistake, flaw since they see it as signs of weaknesses in public. Basics didn't destroy Imran as fast as he could on every point like we see zakir naik do on edited broadcasts but basics had the humility to share the truth the whole truth and we have the ability to learn from every argument which could have more work and we learnt the new 10-40 technique which we can now use to eliminate in arguments against more mini dawah mans. Secondly the video had many mixed muslim reactions most could see dawah man lost the argument but tried to rekindle and romanticize a victory for islam under the discussion while many sikhs who replied and destroyed every new argument they had, the whole video brought shame onto his work of trying to convert it seems they will take him back to school and get the big guys to train him. Imran's fault was coming off the script and actually having a discussion to learn why islam in the absolute including the political side of the shariah is man made falsehood it doesn't live up to it's claims of being an absolute truth. I wonder how much more it would have taken to convert brother Imran to accepting Allah's true deen of Sikhi.

No, Nothing wrong with SGPC. Problem is the people controlling it. Dismantle the western style democratic electoral system in SGPC. That is the problem where corrupt people are being elected. Khalsa needs to come back to the traditional selection system.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa !! Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh !! Gururoop Sadh Sangat jio . How to Sharpen Puratan Shastars?

Sat sree akaal I am trying to learn some Punjabi so I can better understand Gurbani and communicate with those in Gurdwara who speak little or no English. I recently ordered http://www.amazon.com/Complete-Panjabi-Two-Audio-CDs/dp/0071766022/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1386605716&sr=8-5&keywords=teach+yourself+complete+panjabi'>Teach Yourself: Complete Panjabi but I am aware I'll later on need some additional book or program to help me get to the next level, along with trying to speak Panjabi with native speakers on a regular basis. For anyone on here who's taught themselves Punjabi, or if anyone here is a teacher of the language, I would like some suggestions on what is a good book or program to pick up. (I have used Pimsleur before, but it is a bit expensive and it is not available at my library). Thank you (And moderators, sorry if I put this post in the wrong area of the forum)

What is naam? Many people say they have naam from so and so but are not amritdhari. I know of Radha Soamis having naam, no bad comments plz, but do other Sikh samparda also give this and do other faiths? What exactly is it? I always thought it was simran, or reciting gods name. Then some people say one needs a guru, confusing.

The mool mantar debate has been ended once and for all by an intelligent gursikh: Nowadays we have idiots who say in their katha that those who read upto gurprasad will go to hell. But they forget their own taksaal says upto gurprasad is a valid mantar - maha mantar. If someone calls it mool mantar then let them, no harm done, from your point of view you can just think they are actually doing maha mantar which is perfectly valid and acceptable as a mantar in taksaal. So I hope this is one disagreement in the panth which can be left alone. Everyone agree?

Those Gursikhs are not complaining about the harsh sentences, we are. I am not sure what is your problem with that.

Hey Dessi i too deal with anxiety all the time. Pm me sometime singh. But yes meditation does help, it helps alot more if you meditatae frequently. there sa technique called 427, you breath in slowley counting four, hold your breath for two and then release slowly for 7. You could try that out. There are also other uses that are simpler to try which is things like hypnosis and binaural beats. Listening to them before going to bed is very usefula nd common. Alot of people find this very helpful. I hope this helps you PS: There is a lot of hypnosis information of google and there are tons of hypnosis links via youtube If you click on the link there should be other there too Fateh

As much as it pains me to see the nutty professor and his mob getting stage time and trying to use the issue to push their own agenda. I would like to know where are the sant samaj hiding and where is dhumma babaji. This is the time to stand up and take sides. Sant samaj have shown where their loyalties lie. Dadu sahib wale and Ajanala Ji are the only two who have stood by Bhai Sahib Gurbaksh Singh. This is not the time for certain panthic leaders to use their PR machine to show solidarity. Walk the walk don't talk about Bhai Gurbaksh Singh Ji from your divans this is just paying lip service. Shashi Kant has made it clear what Badal's role was in 1984. Yet our panthic leaders still touch his feet and hide away while this is going on.

^^ Perfect reply and we humbly call for the closure of this thread.

We have to have realistic goals. Badals cannot just be removed from power, it is just not that easy. However an opportunity has arisen to capitalise on the anti badal sentiment that has now risen in the Sikh panth. We need to seriously make efforts to organise a third party to contest the next elections in punjab. The third party should fight sikh causes as well as the supporting the poor and removing corruption. Just recently the "aam admi party" has delivered a heavy defeat to the congress party. The sgpc should not be demolished and has the capacity to be great institution. There should be no political style elections for the sgpc. All we require for sgpc are gursikhs who have hunger to do gurmat parchar. The akal takht jathedar, under the guidance of the 5 pyare, should have the highest authority in the panth. This being said I do not see he above happening anytime soon.

Vjkk vjkf Just wanted to share and discuss something that has been really bothering myself since having come onto the path of sikhi and later on been blessed with amrith. Why is it that when your the only 1 in your family or out of your cousins your age to have taken amrith that people who are meant to be your family (extended family/cousins) try to put you down?. Iv seen this so much and having gone through it myself I don't see the point. If your doing something that's right why do people try so badly to put you down? Sorry for ranting. Any opinions on this Would be nice

Eating meat is a very big sin. IF A AMRITDHARI EATS MEAT THEN 1. HE/SHE is no more amritdhari 2. HE/SHE WILL GO TO JAMPURI AND THEN 84 LAKH JOONS. DONT LISTEN TO MODERN DAY PARCHARAKS ,THEY ARE ALL CONTRIBUTING TO SEND MORE AND MORE SOULS IN THE FIRES OF HELL.

bhai rajoana shouldve been made jathedar long ago

Discussing which Jathedar should be appointed now is like discussing what color of Bana Jathedar ji would wear on the first day of being appointed. In this current time even if you had a Jathedar who stood up to Badal, he would be eliminated in some fashion and a puppet Jathedar would be appointed once again. Imho. I believe its better to let know your relatives in india that it is time to elect another party and politically overthrow Badal. No more who will destroy Sikhi at a slower pace. Give the people of punjab to vote for a party that is actually looking out for their welfare.

Yes, because Gurbani shows us how to deal with anxiety. People that are shy will be able to face the fear of speaking in front of people without feeling they are being judged. Reading Gurbani takes the stress away. A person with anxiety focuses on how others will perceive him doing a certain act. Therefore the person cannot focus on how to complete the act, but what will happen as everyone will be looking and judging me. Gurbani takes the person's focus from the judging and turns it to the task at hand. Say you were to do a speech. Many people with anxiety will waste majority of the time worrying and very little time preparing for the speech. Gurbani changes the thought pattern of the person to actually practicing the speech and how to improve. Make reading Gurbani a regular routine in your life and you will notice the difference. Read and understand, you will see a lot of improvement.

Imran, if you're reading this, quit Dawah and start Vaaho Vaaho!

Exactly shaastar we need to stick together follow our Gurus teaching and try to become Gursikhs and the guys you talk about some of them were probably my uncles as i grew up in that era too and yes their was more unity and they were all friends, as i can recall the problem started when ambition and greed crept in nothing wrong with ambition as long as it is done through honest means and then pride came along when one person had a bigger car or house and then jealousy reared its ugly head and corruption in gurdwara committees came along which then caused a bigger divide and finally some who started to preach that moneh are bad and amritdharis are superior but in fact a lot of the amritdharis had previously also been moneh themselves and finally we come to where we are today. But that is what happened here in the uk but then what caused the divide in other countries ? seems we have gone a bit off topic here but that happens some time too lol.

Had a few thoughts relating to this topic: 1. Theoretical question: if the panthic agoo's/jathe/sangat all deemed the current Singh sahib not worthy of their position and removed them whilst nominating a more suitable candidate (papal election style, however including main jathe).. Would this be correct/a bad precedent??? 2. If the SGPC was elected by Sarbat khalsa I don't think there would be any of the issues with dodgy Singh sahibs we are seeing, but I guess that would mean emperor badal kissing goodbye to his honeypot.. For me a revolution needs to take place to make no. 2 possible if there is no real positive change over the next few yrz and I think more and more folks will begin to agree.. However the thought of the bloodshed that would come as result of this makes me think twice..

Vishesh Kirtan Smagam http://www.punjabiherald.co.nz/home.php

Dear brother hsingh68, surely when you make such a bold statement : there is no soul, you must have something in mind, but going in accordance to this present topic of Nam, and replying to your post , Satguru Sacahey Badshah Guru Nanak Dev Maharaj, in raag Aasaa says: anhad sun maani-aa sabad veechaaree. Hearing the unstruck music of the sound current, this mind contemplates the Shabad, and accepts it. aatam cheeneh, bha-ay nirankaaree. Understanding itself, this soul becomes attuned to the Formless Lord. What Baba Nanak trys to explain us, is that, by listening to the Anhad Bani, Anhad Shabad, the mind is defeated, and the soul is thus liberated from its clutches. And the soul, then sees it´s true self as same in essence of that Nam, Shabad or Wahiguru. Knowing its real essence of being same as Parbraham Parmeshwar, it proceeds at full speed towards its destination, Sach Khand, to merge and become one with Satnam samundar. This is the beauty of the truths in the Bani, because they are uttered by Akal purukh Himself, through His Gurmukhs. Wah wah Sachay Badshah.

If there exists naam why can you not listen to it? Because you antishkarn needs to be cleaned first by naam abhyaas.

Rather then trying to insult me why don't you ask me why there is no avasta and stages. Being told you are wrong is just hurting your ego. You're a sikh be willing to learn rather than being told what you want to hear again and again...

That is not Gurbani! I think chaupa singh said that.

104,448 have seen this debate in just a few days! this is one of the few rare debates on the net where a non-Muslim dominates the debate. Actually all people are so annoyed at the pushy, aggressive way this new generation of Muslim preachers are trying to convert people by sell Islam as self evident, scientific, logical instead of showing it as a spiritual path. Even some Muslim comments there are supportive of the Singh rather than the Muslim.

Translation of Letter by Bhai Jagtar Singh Hawara Vaaheguroo Jee Kaa Khalsa! Vaaheguroo Jee Kee Fateh! As the Sangat is aware, Bhai Gurbaksh Singh Khalsa has undertaken an indefinite hunger strike since November 14 at Gurduara Amb Sahib, Mohali for the release of those Sikh youth who remain unjustly imprisoned. Five Singhs; Bhai Lal Singh Akaalgarh (Nabha Jail), Bhai Shamsher Singh, Bhai Lakhwinder Singh, Bhai Gurmeet Singh (all in Bural Jail), and Bhai Gurdeep Singh Khaira (Karnatka Jail) all remain behind bars even though they have completed their sentences pronounced by the courts. Despite being on hunger strike for the past two weeks, neither the government nor the Hindi media has acknowledged Bhai Sahibs protest or demands. While various Punjabi and Panthic media outlets have covered the story, the government has not even taken notice. On one hand, long grandiose speeches are made that India is a peace-loving country. Those who feel forced to resort to armed struggle in order to defend their rights are encouraged to engage in non-violent struggle instead. On the other hand however, it has been proven time and time again that those engaging in non-violent resistance will be consistently ignored. Bhai Gurbaksh Singhs case is yet further evidence of this. Are the government and mainstream media not endorsing the belief that the only way to send a message through to the deaf ears of the state is through armed struggle? It is undeniable that if instead of a hunger strike Bhai Gurbaksh Singh had set off an explosion, the government, the media, and other Brahmanical forces would have been crying themselves hoarse until now. Now, when one Singh of the Guru has remained hungry for the past two weeks to have his just demands heard, what message is the conspiratorial silence of these institutions sending? This intentional silence, this state-sponsored message should be clearly understood that We dont care about non-violent protest and hunger strikes, we only hear the sound of bullets and explosions. Sending this message, how can they then hope for peace? Whatever happens Khalsa Jee, the Sikh Nation should not remain silent. In each and every village and city, a movement to support Bhai Gurbaksh Singhs struggle should be organized. What motive does the government have behind not releasing those Singhs who have already spent more time in prison than they were sentenced to? Our brother has taken a great step in our national struggle, and it is our responsibility to organize and mobilize a strong movement until the demands of Bhai Gurbaksh Singh are met. All Panthic jathebandis must unite and come up with a course of action to secure the release of those Singhs who have already completed their sentences. Rallies and protest marches should be organized everywhere so that this deaf government can hear our voice and it can be carried around the world. If the state continues to ignore our demands, then we will come up with the next phase of action. Servant of the Guru-Panth, Jagtar Singh Hawara Jail No. 4 Tihar Jail, New Delhi

deleted- cannot get the gurmukhi fonts spaced correctly.

News Update: 11:00pm, 7 December 2013, Mohali - After the arrest of Bhai Gurbaksh Singh Khalsa, it was decided by the Sikh organisations that Bhai Damandeep Singh, a Sikh youth from Ludhiana, would continue with the peaceful hunger strike at Gurdwara Amb Sahib whilst Bhai Gurbaksh Singh remains imprisoned in Ropar Jail. Baba Ranjit Singh Khalsa Dhadrianwale has visited Bhai Damandeep Singh this evening to show the young Sikh support. Sikhs must continue to display solidarity towards the cause to free Sikh prisoners who continue to languish in Indian jails after the completion of their legal sentences.

Yes there are some such sikhs and they are wrong if they think they are better the everyone else, but there are also many judgemental moneh who look for negative things in amritdharis but can not see their own faults, there main arguments is we are are not amritdhari so its ok for us to do / be the way we are, my answer to this is why is it ?, you refuse to follow your Guru's basic teachings e.g. do not cut your hair, Drink alcohol, smoke etc but you point the finger at people who are trying to follow Guru ji but do have faults because no one is perfect except Waheguru / Guru ji (who are the one and the same). We should not look at other peoples faults but look at our own. There are many good amritdhari sikhs out there who do some excellent work like Bhai Jugraj Singh ji of basics of sikhi who do not think they are better than any one else and are trying to help the youth, look at the positive people and the negative in yourself. No offence intended but i too get fed up of judgemental moneh always criticizing amritdharis, why dont they take amrit and show everyone how it should be done, rather than look at the faults in amritdharis!

as Giani Sher Singh ji answered on moolmantar you want to know because you want to fight about it? the one who is hungry for naam doesnt look for many sources , once guru has given you mool mantar he/she does it but if you wana fight you look for point to fight on this is useless topic

heres a brilliant comment posted by a muslim lady on the video posted by the dawahdude Fatima P. 7 minutes ago Dawah Man, you talk in neo-orthodox sound bytes and bits using trite Zakir Naik/Ahmed Deedat type rhetoric trying appeal to some sort of "logic." Listening to your words is like eating chalk. If you want to preach the Beauty and Truth in Islam you need the heart of a Sufi and the mind of a philosopher. This Sikh gentleman has such a heart and mind. You can hear the touch of God on him more than on you. It should feel as if cool water is rushing over the heart when you talk about the Quran...abandon these trite "proofs" and "examples." A lot of our modern rhetoric lacks the insight of those who seek tasawwuf, 'irfaan, and philosophic thinking. These things will put beauty in your heart and words. And if you had that in your heart you would feel no need to debate Sikhs or anyone else because you would know that we are all fingers on the same hand or branches on the same tree seeking God. You would work on perfecting your own soul. You would study the GGS of the Sikhs to improve your the Islam in your heart rather than to debate Sikhs and prove them "wrong."

Great loss for whole of humanity. He spent so many years in jail for the freedom of his people. A real inspiration.

Appears organisers of 1 June now have gone against Sikh Council UK. Different youth groups need to come out publicly and nip the 1 June in the bud and those supporting it!

WJKK WJKF I have just heard that around the UK there are events called 'Sikh' speed dating services. people can meet up and speed date i guess. they actually advertise the event as 'Sikh speed dating', where 'Sikhs' can meet and speed date. a friend of mine says its harmless because you only meet people and talk, no numbers are exchanged. i dont care what people do in thier spare time, but i personally dont think the word 'Sikh' should be used. but my friend says whats wrong with using 'Sikh'. the people there are Sikh, they might not be perfect Sikhs, but they are Sikhs. I think using the term Sikh to promote an activity which (I think) is anti-Sikhi is wrong. I just want the sangats opinion on this issue, and what i should say to my friend, and what should be done about such things. WJKK WJKF