Biggest Threat To

[dalsingh101]

p.s I live near Gants hill in london. What ive noticed is the problem is in seven kings, goodmayes. these areas have high sikh populations but also high muslim populations. Muslims tend to stick with the muslims. while the sikhs just remain ununited. we should beceom more united. mix more with our fellow Sikhs. as at the moment. other relgions take advantage at the fact that sikhs are so divided.

I lived in a hardcore musla (pak) area with a Sikh minority for many years. One with much Islamic fundamentalism. Recently I have spent time in the areas you are talking about. There are LOTS of Sikhs around those sides. I mean A LOT. What I noticed is that very few of them are religious - this includes the keshdhari - but they all seem to be doing very well in economic terms. In the sullah areas I've known not one musla was unconcerned about his child's (both male and female) religious education and there were mosques/madrasas/masjids on every corner that were packed out everyday. Hordes of children would attend classes as well. Even the youngsters that went to Friday prayers were made up of the visibly devout beard but no moustache having, jack up wearing bundha to the average pak romeo.

In the Sikh areas I've seen, there is no equivalent situation. What you do get with apnay, however, is an almost obsessive attitude towards their children's western education. The parents gush about how their children have been accepted in flannah/timka prestigious university but are absolutely oblivious to any religious/spiritual education. In short we have bought into the western, consumerist society lock, stock and barrel and are at competition with ourselves for status and prestige (that old Panjabi obsession). Whilst this has positive aspects (i.e. high rate of prosperity and success) it also has it's own deep and negative side effects. But this is only one issue we have and other factors, I imagine, play an equally big part in our 'issues'.

All that being said. The other side of the picture is that despite of the above, today I see more and more young people clued up about their faith. Many of them infinitely more so than even the simple '1st wave' parents generation. Many can read and understand bani better than the partially informed masses that arrived here I the 60s/70s.

I definitely think we need more creative approaches to fostering unity and harmony within the seemingly highly disparate community we are. We are diverse, it's stupid not to understand and accept this reality as a starting point. Whether we like it or not. It's like we only ever seem to unite and overlook our differences for short periods when we are faced with annihilation and once this threat is diminished, we revert back to a sort of bitchy, jealous infighting amongst ourselves - usually over prestige and resources and arguments over who is acceptably devout and who isn't.

The only thing I can say with certainty is that realistically speaking, whatever the solution to our problems is, it will involve somehow getting a diverse spectrum of people who are prone to regard each other with hostility to agree to some basic vision for their collective future. Given how we all seem to be seeing different worlds, and that even our community leaders seem to be engaged in the 'Panjabi status obsession', this isn't any easy task.

I guess on an individual/personal level we could all make a big start by trying not to add to the existing internal fissures/conflicts we have going on already and work to try an diminish those that currently exist.

[ks55]

Sikhism has no threat what so ever- -think about - ajaaamal for a minute mentioned in Gurbani - his son was narayaan-

think about harnakahus - son was pralaadh

there is no way there is any threat to sikhism - keep calm and carry on being the best sikh u can

[yubacitysingh]

Sikh girls just arent attracted to guys with beards and turbans, they only run to sardars when non-sikh boys have finished using them! then they all of a sudden want to marry a sardar to save their reputation. No wonder so many singhs go to india to find a decent wife.

girls don't want losers, alot of sardars attract girls but the once who are losers are the once who can't attract girls

reading your responce i know what category you fall in

http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?/topic/63675-for-all-the-singhs-that-complain-about-girls-not-liking-singhs/page__p__515400#entry515400

[yubacitysingh]

I have to agree with the OP. My experience only - our women are letting the side down big time.

There was a wedding recently where there was a violation of Sri Akal Takt marayda. a Gora was marrying an apni in anand karaj at a Gurdwara that had already passed the resolution that only a Sikh will marry a Sikh. It was an "undercover" wedding, but singhs found out and there was a confrontation.

The girls mother, an punjabi born aunty, whos parents are keshdari, who is also a regular gurdwara goer said "you singhs are nothing, my daughter is marrying a GORA! and hes a SOLICITOR" and you lot are kachey pakeh.. meaning illegal immigrants.

The lads were all educated, mostly Gursikh uk born.

This is the Girls MOTHER.. and the daughter was shouting out "smelly singhs, call the police on them!!"

Even the girls dad and brothers seemed ashamed, didnt say a word.

I've seen it time and time again.. our bibiyan, mothers and daughters are letting the side down big time.

Even in india, theres areas of dehli where hindu guys brag about how easy sikh girls are, and they brag no "surd" (what these b*stard kachties call Sardars) marries a virgin.

By no stretch of the imagination would i say our brothers are in any way perfect. but ratio's speak for themselves.

Forget the Panth, or Sikhi.. most girls have ZERO loyalty to their own family. They will happily break evryones heart for abit of you know what.. its disgusting.

I read alot of books, social science, physiology, etc etc.. and we can sit here come to a billion conclusions of what needs to be done; parchar, social upbringing.. blah blah... bottom line for me is... there's no fear.

There was a time if a white girl walked into a pub with a black, they would both get lashed. Those days are gone, now what? 1000's of half caste babies to single mothers.

When singhs stand up and have zero tolerance on those that betray their koum as well as those that want to p*ss about with our sisters, then we will see change.

dandeh naal kum hoana - no other way

big failure

this way girls woudl rebel even more hahaha

in the western world were people arn't brainwashed like middleeast people don't like being told what to do

human nature

when you start telling and controlling girls the more rebelious they become

raise strong sikh girls educate them about the great inspirational history sikhs have and to use the women who accomplished so much as role models to hit their goals and build a good close bond with them

if your going to be to conservative the girl will rebel

you be to liberal then the girl will not care about her roots

you got to meet middle ground

[DustOfTheSaintsFeet]

Who cares if self proclaimed sikhs want to marry whites, blacks, chinese or red indian, we're all equal in the eyes of god, coz we're all god.

Like I've said in other posts, most of the girls you call sikhs are not even Sikh(Students), and are not on the path, they may drink, take drugs, indulge in lustful actvities etc.

You cannot call a bunch of punjabis sikh just because their ancestors were students of Truth, or becuase they were born in a certain region- there is culture and there is the path of divinity, there is only 1 path- not a path in which the focus is deviated the majority of the time by giving in to the seduction of maya.

So many people on here are so caught up in culture that they fail to see that a bunch of Punjabi people with brown skin who may attend the gurdwarra a few times here and there are not True seekers/ students.

A true sikh will make the right decisions according to hukam, whether they choose to marry a typical punjabi guy, a chinese sushi chef or a white tramp living on the street. They would see you as a a true sikh, so why all the negativity, ideas of control and irritations? A false sikh will probably make the wrong decision based on their own ego and ideas, as a bhagat(devotee) you can educate them of the true path and in practicing they will gain the humbless to recognise you as a bhagat/true sikh, instead of just seeing your image.

Why not live and let the true sikhs live, let the bhagats make their own decisions, focus on your own path to Nothingness. Its not you driving them, its god, do ardas and trust him.

If a sikh flows with His hukam to marry another true student of Truth then so be it, if they decide to marry a previous athiest interested in sikhi then so be it, if the hukam is to marry a total <banned word filter activated>, then so be it.

Human attachment is false anyway, we all walk this path alone in total unattachment, we are only attached to Truth which the bhagats and sants live, but even that association need not be physical, it is spiritual in all aspects- for the bhagat does not live in the maya energy.

If we marry a great slanderer, what a great blessing for the best slanderers are the ones in our own homes, they lead us to detach from the foolishness into our masters arms, to bring total dependency upon Him, upon applying Truth to our lives and living in it.

Running away from the company of bad people day and night is not physical for we are surrounded by scum(it is Kalyug, the age of hell on earth)- if it meant physically the tuk wouldn't say run 'day and night'- it means 24/7 detachment- practicing Truth/detachment every single second of the day. It is detaching from them and rising above, raising our energy to be attuned to Truth, that is true detachment. The energies which we react with are up to us, they all come from within- we can remain detached or lower ourselves back into the scum- it is all dependant on our own psychological state of being. Do we judge and react in anger and irritation towards another(maya/5 thieves) or do we see that God himself is that person testing and teaching us and rise above the illusion.

Spread the education to all, you can preach a maya principle(that girls are not attracted to singhs) or you can teach the truth so that the people will become Sikhers and you will be recognised beyond your image.

[innergear]

Sikhs bigger threap . . . Sikhs that moan all time on forums an do nothin for problem

[humkire]

Singling out women as the cause of our problems is blatantly wrong and sexist and any non Sikh reading the opening comments of this thread could think Sikhs are a patriarchial, male dominated ethnic group that sees women as the weakest link in the chain.

Every generation has its own issues to grapple with, and own battles to fight. We cannot reverse time and go back to 1730, or 1790 or 1850 0r 1900 or 1950 or 1980 to help fight the battles Sikhs of these periods had to fight. Likewise many of us wont be here by 2030 or 2050 or 2090 and beyond to help tackle whatever problems Sikhs of the coming generations will face.

However, I trust that the majority of Sikhs who are on this site are between 14/15 to about 30 years of age. This is your generation and this is your battle. You can practically forget getting any help from the older generation especially 50/60 age group and above. They mainly occupy seats of power from Gurudwaras to Sikh institutions. They have done what what needed for their generation and most of them do not understand the problems and needs of your generation. Many of the resources your generation need is within their control and much of what needs to change is within their power, but they will not move because together with age can come complacency, risk averseness, rigidity, and comfort zones.

There are four key things that the present generation age group of 15 to 40ish need to do that will lay a sound foundation for Sikhi.

a) UNITE. I know it sounds insanely difficult but subdivisions on the lines of religion(jethabandhis), race(punjabee sikh vs white sikh), caste, politics and economic class need to be erased.

b)REFORM. Reform is needed in how everything from gurudwaras to the Sgpc are organised and run and how power is layered especially in the Punjab.

c) EQUALISE. Women are not accorded and entrusted the status and responsibilities that are due to them ranging from duties at Harmandir Sahib to the management of Gurudwaras.

d)PARCHAR . Every Sikh has to see himself/herself as an ambassador and parcharak of Sikhism.

These are the tasks facing the present generation of Sikhs.

[JSinghN]

girls don't want losers, alot of sardars attract girls but the once who are losers are the once who can't attract girls

reading your responce i know what category you fall in

http://www.sikhsanga...400#entry515400

Mate its the truth ive seen it happen.

[pedrorizzo]

I have to agree with the OP. My experience only - our women are letting the side down big time.

There was a wedding recently where there was a violation of Sri Akal Takt marayda. a Gora was marrying an apni in anand karaj at a Gurdwara that had already passed the resolution that only a Sikh will marry a Sikh. It was an "undercover" wedding, but singhs found out and there was a confrontation.

The girls mother, an punjabi born aunty, whos parents are keshdari, who is also a regular gurdwara goer said "you singhs are nothing, my daughter is marrying a GORA! and hes a SOLICITOR" and you lot are kachey pakeh.. meaning illegal immigrants.

The lads were all educated, mostly Gursikh uk born.

This is the Girls MOTHER.. and the daughter was shouting out "smelly singhs, call the police on them!!"

Even the girls dad and brothers seemed ashamed, didnt say a word.

I've seen it time and time again.. our bibiyan, mothers and daughters are letting the side down big time.

Even in india, theres areas of dehli where hindu guys brag about how easy sikh girls are, and they brag no "surd" (what these b*stard kachties call Sardars) marries a virgin.

By no stretch of the imagination would i say our brothers are in any way perfect. but ratio's speak for themselves.

Forget the Panth, or Sikhi.. most girls have ZERO loyalty to their own family. They will happily break evryones heart for abit of you know what.. its disgusting.

I read alot of books, social science, physiology, etc etc.. and we can sit here come to a billion conclusions of what needs to be done; parchar, social upbringing.. blah blah... bottom line for me is... there's no fear.

There was a time if a white girl walked into a pub with a black, they would both get lashed. Those days are gone, now what? 1000's of half caste babies to single mothers.

When singhs stand up and have zero tolerance on those that betray their koum as well as those that want to p*ss about with our sisters, then we will see change.

dandeh naal kum hoana - no other way

To be honest. Bad as it is. I would say. What more would you expect? Punjabis have always been extremely proud and arrogant and if they feel like someone is trying to bully them (even if they are in the right) they will resist it very aggressively. In a community that has a warped sense of honour and huge egos, I am not surprised that the Singhs were treated in that manner.

They will have seen the Singhs there as an intrusion to their private space on their special day and as a direct insult on their honour, hence, the severe backlash.

Personally, I am not a fan of protesting outside of peoples weddings. I do not think it is very constructive, and it places alot of pressure on the Gurdwaras, particularly since in one case, the Singhs disrupted the wedding, and the family subsequently took the Gurdwara to court for breach of contract. Hence, this added pressure creates an even greater divide between the gurdwaras and the youth.

A compromise would be, and this would be much easier to enforce, if the non-Sikh member of the marriage party converted to Sikhism. Even if this meant that they would follow the very basic tenets of a sehajdhari Sikh by wearing a kara, using Singh/Kaur, following GGS ji and reciting mool mantar. They could sign a document to this effect.

The above would satisfy the akal takhat maryada as both parties have now become Sikh and we would be gaining more followers to our faith through mixed marriages, in the same way that Muslims do. We have to think long term, about how we are going to expand our faith, rather than find ways to make this impossible, whilst damaging relations between the youth and the gurdwaras, the Singhs and the sehajdharis, and causing a riot on peoples' special day.

[PrabhKaSimran]

Have a read of this; http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/woman/3894101/Why-is-sex-such-a-big-deal-I-can-wait-for-my-Mr-Right.html