Sikh history of 18th century seems highly depressing and sikhs didn't even get a fair share :'(

[Sukhvirk1976]

12 hours ago, MisterrSingh said:

Hukamname, mostly, but also various commentaries (written or spoken) on gurbani authored by sants, kathavachaks, etc., over the years. 

Do you care to provide examples? 

[Not2Cool2Argue]

On 6/27/2018 at 5:21 PM, MisterrSingh said:

Not when our religious edicts dictate who is and who isn't an apostate. 

True. But using the akaal takahats definition in SRM we can include most ppl. As BoS jagraj singh was trying to do. 

And i think we have no choice. As more and more sikhs become secular. We would be wise to do that. It is kind of sad, but better than total abandonment. 

[Ranjeet01]

14 hours ago, Sukhvirk1976 said:

Fair enough. How do you think it gets abused that's quite a strong accusation.. Do you have a example to clarify your point?

Here is an example for you.

Ramgharia Gurdwara in Slough receives a lot of homeless  (particularly East Europeans ) that come to have langar.

That is not a problem, however some of these guys are drunk and have drug problems and normally you should matha tek before Maharaj before you have langar. This is the protocol. It is written on signs in most gurdwaras (in Slough, they have signs in polish)

Now there are going to be people who are going to take advantage of this and not bother with matha teking.

What kind of precedent would this set?

The fact that these guys come intoxicated,  is that acceptable for them to go to the darbar sahib and matha tek? 

The fact that we are open and inclusive resulted in drug addicts shooting up in the toilets. 

Now if you go use the facilities , they are locked and you need to get someone to open.them for you to use.

I have no problems with openness and inclusive but not for people to take the p***.

 

 

[puzzled]

Kushwant Singh in his book said that some of the Sikh sardars and misls leaders used to drink heavily and also had courtesans and nachan waliya in their courts! Don't know how true that is but i think Sikhs perhaps became a bit to materialist during our raj? especially the rich. The misl period was also apparently harsh towards the muslims.

 

Was the Sikh raj of Punjab really Khalsa raj?  I mean Ranjit singh did kill and destroy while taking Punjab over but then again he only killed foreigners and invaders and took back what was ours. But then there was the whole alcohol, opium, nachan waliya, jewels. etc Also the Sikh empire had boundaries while Khalsa obviously has no boundaries but is also a mindset and lifestyle and dedication to guru ji. But he was definitely influenced by Sikhi too, many gurdwareh were constructed by him including Hazur sahib and he did a lot for the poor and was loved by most people in Punjab. 

I remember reading somwhere that akali nihungs never really liked him though and the feelings were mutual?

[Sukhvirk1976]

1 hour ago, Ranjeet01 said:

Here is an example for you.

Ramgharia Gurdwara in Slough receives a lot of homeless  (particularly East Europeans ) that come to have langar.

That is not a problem, however some of these guys are drunk and have drug problems and normally you should matha tek before Maharaj before you have langar. This is the protocol. It is written on signs in most gurdwaras (in Slough, they have signs in polish)

Now there are going to be people who are going to take advantage of this and not bother with matha teking.

What kind of precedent would this set?

The fact that these guys come intoxicated,  is that acceptable for them to go to the darbar sahib and matha tek? 

The fact that we are open and inclusive resulted in drug addicts shooting up in the toilets. 

Now if you go use the facilities , they are locked and you need to get someone to open.them for you to use.

I have no problems with openness and inclusive but not for people to take the p***.

 

 

So they should not be allowed into the gurdwara into if they are drunk. But there is no requirement to matha tek 

[MisterrSingh]

17 hours ago, Sukhvirk1976 said:

Do you care to provide examples? 

I knew you'd say that.

[S1ngh]

5 hours ago, Sukhvirk1976 said:

So they should not be allowed into the gurdwara into if they are drunk. But there is no requirement to matha tek 

Brother, What do you think about a drunk person would have right sense at that moment to pay respect to guru maharaj jee. These are the standards of not only our community but also widely accepted by others. 

[Ranjeet01]

5 hours ago, Sukhvirk1976 said:

So they should not be allowed into the gurdwara into if they are drunk. But there is no requirement to matha tek 

How so?

[Sukhvirk1976]

12 hours ago, MisterrSingh said:

I knew you'd say that.

It's a obvious question with out any substantiation it's just here say? 

[Sukhvirk1976]

7 hours ago, S1ngh said:

Brother, What do you think about a drunk person would have right sense at that moment to pay respect to guru maharaj jee. These are the standards of not only our community but also widely accepted by others. 

I don't understand your point? If someone is drunk they shouldn't be allowed in to the gurdwara.. That is what I said..