Domestic and sexual abuse of silenced Sikh women revealed

[GurjantGnostic]

2 hours ago, Ranjeet01 said:

The concept of seva can be taken to it's extreme means taking selflessness in every aspect of your life. Putting your self last is seen as a noble act.

However, extreme selflessness can be one of the worst form selfishness because you are doing selflessness for a reward and it is not really for altruistic reasons.

If your satisfy your needs first and you are santokhi then any form of seva you are doing you are not expecting anything back in return. The altruism will be more genuine.

How can you help others when you cannot even help yourself first?

I do hear you bro in a deep way though. 

[GurjantGnostic]

2 hours ago, MisterrSingh said:

 

Spirituality (as prescribed in the dharmic traditions at least) while a lofty pursuit and something to aspire to for those that way inclined, can genuinely disadvantage and in some cases seriously damage a person's well-being in the arena of day-to-day life where sentimentality and "goodness" is a hindrance in a society or a world that doesn't abide by higher ideals.

The real danger is when you allay your instincts by following an ethos such as: "I'll plough on with this noble approach to life even if it causes me to suffer in the physical realm because God will reward me with His eternal favour in the divine realm."  I've known many Sikhs, particularly younger ones who've been cajoled into his mindset, who've had their lives negatively impacted (to put it mildly) because they were lead to believe that even self-preservation expressed through the slightest move towards self-interest is an affront to God.

 

I hear that too. 

[dallysingh101]

19 hours ago, MisterrSingh said:

Taking all of the above into account, what causes a Muslim (generally speaking) to retain the desire to tow the Islamic line and retain that in-group intensity for his own kind even through the intense flattery and "chaa'ploosi" that's being showered upon him (or her), whereas the same tactics on a Sikh cause him (or her) to have their head turned making them abandon their own side for comparative scraps? What is it specifically that causes this to happen?

A big part of it I think are these things:

The majority of us are (how can I put it?) economically constrained, rural people with limited options and broader cognitive capabilities. 

For hordes of us, the Sikh identity is essentially secondary to a primary one, which is usually caste/regional/tribe based (or whatever people want to try and mask it as these days). 

Not only does islam have an ingrained 'them and us' (binary) conceptualisation of the world, recent cultural clashes echo very old ones for them (european crusaders) which is an emotive issue for them, and a matter of pride; compare this to many of our lot who still hail their subjugation by the brits as some sort of fortunate 'stroke of luck' for us! Even promoting their forefather's compliance to the invaders in their adventures as a good, admirable thing rather than slavery. lol     

Clear consistent definitions (i.e. the pillars etc.) which give people clear and simple guidelines towards inclusion and a identity. 

We could go on, but suffice to say, many apnay and apneean aren't primed enough to be able to combat and resist temptation from baharlay bundhay. So their greed, ambition, lust etc. over-ride the weak-a55 identity they have. For many of those who don't buckle, it very often seems to be a matter of intrinsic stubbornness and self-worth as a Sikh that stops them compromising and enables them to endure the consequences of this. 

 

[ipledgeblue]

On 12/10/2021 at 3:28 PM, Jacfsing2 said:

What’s the Rehras called with the full Chaupai Sahib along with the Harnkash and Prehlad line in the beginning?

 

 

On 12/12/2021 at 9:37 AM, NaamTiharoJoJape said:

that is sad, are there any sources clearly describing the events in which they were ousted, was it due to differences in maryada? sgpc claim they already had control over the thakt before the "intoxicated nihangs" came and took over 

were renowned leaders like kartar singh jhabbar behind this as well

surely not all of babbar akali lehar or singh sabha lehar can be stained by this considering mahapurkhs like sant sundar singh ji and sant attar singh ji spearheading and taking an active part in the morchas and did widespread parchar in rural areas of punjab for the lehars thanks to which the movement matured outside cities and municipalities 

Kartar Singh Jhabbar was in charge of the movement to take over Akali Bunga. They purposefully sent in mobs of SGPC women as they knew the akali Nihang Singhs would not fight against women! Just a cowardly takeover really!

When SGPC was created, a contract was signed to never ask for Khalsa Raj to the goray in order to incorporate SGPC. This betrayal to khalsa by SGPC was the reason the Budha Dal Nihang Singhs split from the Singh Sabha movement, as the creation of SGPC literally was a betrayal of the panth due to that clause that was signed !

Akali Baba Anup Singh Nihang from Gravesend, UK, was an eyewitness to what happened.

On 12/12/2021 at 2:11 PM, Jacfsing2 said:

I think it’s less about what’s allowed or not, and more on what someone thinks is right. The Panth as a whole hasn’t come to a consensus on using just one Rehras Sahib paaht, and lots of Gutkas both online and physical don’t have the full Rehras in it. 

the skipping of parts of kabiyo bach benti chaupai wasn't allowed, and probably the same for Arril as Mahapurkhs are insisten on reading this as well.  but Bhasauria and SGPC brought these changes in regardless.

On 12/12/2021 at 5:30 PM, NaamTiharoJoJape said:

 

do we really need a single rehras sahib, sure it would be good to have one standardized for the majority of mainstream gurudwaras, and one that acts as an minimum and one can argue the taksal one already functions as a baseline minimum; ofc I agree on the issue being not what one does paath of but the puratan original maryada from which I take it that you mean its okay if an individual has a different rehras evening nitnem that builds on top of the existing versions of rehras sahib (not to further dilute maryada, just as abhias)? 

The Taksal Rehras seems to be a good baseline. The Bhasauria version Rehras done at Harimandir Sahib, or any Rehras that only takes the minimum Chaupai Sahib from SGPC "Akal Takht" Maryada, would just be disgraceful as a minimum AND IS A deliberate dilution of maryada!

[dallysingh101]

I don't know if people know this, but when the Lahore Singh Sabha Lehar started, it was done with the blessing of the then ruling colonial brits. Apparently the original name was going to be 'Loyal Singh Sabha' but the brits told them to change that to just 'Singh Sabha', presumably to hide the ties? 

[Premi5]

On 12/13/2021 at 3:28 PM, dallysingh101 said:

A big part of it I think are these things:

The majority of us are (how can I put it?) economically constrained, rural people with limited options and broader cognitive capabilities. 

For hordes of us, the Sikh identity is essentially secondary to a primary one, which is usually caste/regional/tribe based (or whatever people want to try and mask it as these days). 

Not only does islam have an ingrained 'them and us' (binary) conceptualisation of the world, recent cultural clashes echo very old ones for them (european crusaders) which is an emotive issue for them, and a matter of pride; compare this to many of our lot who still hail their subjugation by the brits as some sort of fortunate 'stroke of luck' for us! Even promoting their forefather's compliance to the invaders in their adventures as a good, admirable thing rather than slavery. lol     

Clear consistent definitions (i.e. the pillars etc.) which give people clear and simple guidelines towards inclusion and a identity. 

We could go on, but suffice to say, many apnay and apneean aren't primed enough to be able to combat and resist temptation from baharlay bundhay. So their greed, ambition, lust etc. over-ride the weak-a55 identity they have. For many of those who don't buckle, it very often seems to be a matter of intrinsic stubbornness and self-worth as a Sikh that stops them compromising and enables them to endure the consequences of this. 

 

If Sikhs were 'targetted' in the media like Muslims have been , do you think this would create greater sense of identity ?

[proudkaur21]

2 hours ago, Premi5 said:

If Sikhs were 'targetted' in the media like Muslims have been , do you think this would create greater sense of identity ?

100% . my parents were the typical indian urban sikh family who taught me nothing about sikhi. I didnt even know about 1984 until i was 14 years old. But when i came to canada, joined twitter and started researching about what happened to our people and how we have been robbed of our beautiful heritage land and culture and seeing how sikhs are being constantly attacked in india i became so much stronger in my sikhi. Like when you know that you are attacked for a particular thing that you possess you become more attached to it. You wont believe i used to be the same dil saaf type of person that i vehemently resent now. These dil saaf peoples eyes havent been opened yet to what they are being robbed off which is why they bark all this nonsense 24/7. Unfortunately the sikhs in india dont know yet what they are being robbed off which is why they behave this way.

[proudkaur21]

On 12/12/2021 at 5:46 PM, MisterrSingh said:

 

Spirituality (as prescribed in the dharmic traditions at least) while a lofty pursuit and something to aspire to for those that way inclined, can genuinely disadvantage and in some cases seriously damage a person's well-being in the arena of day-to-day life where sentimentality and "goodness" is a hindrance in a society or a world that doesn't abide by higher ideals.

The real danger is when you allay your instincts by following an ethos such as: "I'll plough on with this noble approach to life even if it causes me to suffer in the physical realm because God will reward me with His eternal favour in the divine realm."  I've known many Sikhs, particularly younger ones who've been cajoled into his mindset, who've had their lives negatively impacted (to put it mildly) because they were lead to believe that even self-preservation expressed through the slightest move towards self-interest is an affront to God.

 

you see this with how apnay will rather help these 1.8 billion oil rich muslims with like 40+ countries than helping their own because it is egoistic to help your own. Man who taught this nonsense to our people.

[GurjantGnostic]

42 minutes ago, proudkaur21 said:

you see this with how apnay will rather help these 1.8 billion oil rich muslims with like 40+ countries than helping their own because it is egoistic to help your own. Man who taught this nonsense to our people.

While I think individually we should help whoever we can, it is weird that despite having such numbers, and a variety of countries muslims still are acting like a people with no homeland, and keep coming for help to a much smaller less monied people with no homeland. 

Most people are fleeing opression because they have nothing. Muslims are totally fleeing islamic countries. They should be happy as it gets in those places right? Run by them for them?

[GurjantGnostic]

57 minutes ago, proudkaur21 said:

100% . my parents were the typical indian urban sikh family who taught me nothing about sikhi. I didnt even know about 1984 until i was 14 years old. But when i came to canada, joined twitter and started researching about what happened to our people and how we have been robbed of our beautiful heritage land and culture and seeing how sikhs are being constantly attacked in india i became so much stronger in my sikhi. Like when you know that you are attacked for a particular thing that you possess you become more attached to it. You wont believe i used to be the same dil saaf type of person that i vehemently resent now. These dil saaf peoples eyes havent been opened yet to what they are being robbed off which is why they bark all this nonsense 24/7. Unfortunately the sikhs in india dont know yet what they are being robbed off which is why they behave this way.

I was raised on stories of 1984 and my family was irish catholic at the time. Certainly help formed my resolve.