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Whata Hanuman got to do with anything? So the artists that came to the Punjab during the Sikh Raj were Hindus originating from Kangra province and they did illustrations on what they new best that was Hindu mythology. The Sikhs were not great art lovers and left them to it. Why by the way are you obessed with Hindu mythology? The story about the Sikh Cavalry being below par was put around by the British. The traitor Brahmin generals Lal Singh and Tej Singh, who to our misfortune became commanders simply did not engage the cavalry and sent them in the wrong direction in many of the battles in the First Sikh war. These traitors disrupted the Sikh army and asked the British on how best to get the Sikh army defeated. In the Second Sikh war a true Sikh was in command Sher Singh Attariwala and if you read the Chillianwalla account it was the Sikh cavalry that caused the British cavalry to flee in panic an run over their own infantry. The cavalry was commanded by Hari Singh Nalwas son at this battle, and it shows that even when the Sikhs were outnumbered wiith a Sikh as leader they were capable of defeating the British. The British then mustered a huge army from all over their empire and were also helped by most of the Indian rajas to overwhelm the Sikhs in the further battles. The Badal clan were there in Malwa during during the British invasion ,originally during the Misl period the Sikhs spread out from Amritsar/Lahore area and captured the Punjab. The Malwa chiefs had earlier sought British protection in 1809 with the Sutlej river becoming the border between the Sikh Empire and the British Empire. From the article; The Sikh horsemen led by Jawahir Singh Nalwa63 the bold and dashing son of Sardar Hari Singh Nalwa now realising that poor execution and bad terrain had brought Pope’s apology of a cavalry charge to an absolute halt64 now counter charged. Jawahir Singh with his band of horsemen emerged, once again, through the wild Doab jungle, and charged Popes force, in the process of which some Sikh horsemen physically attacked Brigadier Pope, cutting him across the head with his Tulwar, and wounding him 65. At this critical stage of the battle Pope’s brigade which had already halted and was waiting for orders, now became leaderless. An event then occurred which the British historians right from 1849 onwards find hard to explain or account for. HM 14th Light Dragoon turned about and bolted! The native cavalry also panicked and followed HM 14th Light Dragoon rearwards, galloping through at top speed through their own horse artillery batteries backwards! Fortescue states that HM 14th Light Dragoon bolted because Pope gave them a word of command of “Threes Right” which they heard as something like “Threes about” 66 and that’s why the unit bolted! There is no doubt that had a native cavalry unit done so Fortescue’s verdict may have been much more harsh! Jawahir Singh Nalwa pursued Pope’s cavalry brigade with great elan, cutting down many British Horse artillerymen including Major Christie, one of the battery commanders , destroying six guns and carrying four guns intact apart from two ammunition wagons and fifty three horses as war trophies!67 Pope’s cavalry brigade from this moment onwards ceased to be a fighting formation! It was rallied with great difficulty by Gough’s staff and the regimental Chaplain of HM 14 LD, with his pistol! It was said that Gough recommended the Chaplain to be promoted to the rank of Brevet Bishop ,on the battlefield!68 The flight of Pope’s brigade resulted in a serious operational imbalance in the British position . Their right rear flank was now vulnerable to counter attack . Sher Singh Attariwalla immediately ordered a counter attack and Sikh infantry and cavalry west of Rasul immediately advanced down from the heights through the open gap encircling Gilbert’s division from the rear! It was Pope’s good luck that he died soon afterwards from wounds suffered in the battle.

yup remember wen a lot of high profile panjabi celebs were gunned down by black cats (kalay kachay) and panjab police, n it was blamed on khalistanis, 2 defame the movement. ppl like actor veerendra, singers like amar singh chamkila and amarjot. Also kuldeep manak especially joined in with khalistan approval, coz of dilshad akhtar, a panjabi folk singer, who gunned down by probably kp gills men, kuldeep manak, even tho he knew it was a waste of time, he stood in elections 2 try n bring justice for apnay!! Kuldeep manak is a legend, end of!!

Can't verify it, but Kuldeep Manak has got some great songs and he has an amazing voice. His last interview was great, he talked about how the Punjabi music industry has gone to trash by promoting kaam and other nonsense. He risked his career during the 80s and 90s where he sang songs about Khalistan and Sikh history.

Wtfaahh is it with this guy and bible??!! Monster paneer, congratulations veerji! Love your name too!

IF this is puratan maryada (WHICH IM NOT 100% SURE), then i believe we should adhere to it... further, we should ask ourselves, should maryada be to our liking?

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh whats up singho, if your on facebook, add my page dedicated to shaheed singhs...check out the pictures and posts https://www.facebook.com/pages/Shaheed-Baba-Gurbachan-Singh-Manochahal/111975982152373?ref=hl

Not sure what happened there? As johnny suggested, hows that news? It seems like tabloid witch haunt..!!

Seriously, so many things going on in the world, and a girl carrying a spear half way across the world makes news?

Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh, Paneer Monster, Great great posts!!! Thanks for taking the time to type up your posts, it is not time wasted!!! May the eternal soul and light of the 10 Guru's, Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaaj, bless all the Gursikh Piyare who posted on here to help the Sikh Sangat not get tied in with the occult Rhadasoami club. We all get very tired of these Rhadasoami brain washed robots coming onto this site looking for justification of their occult Rhadasoami club (because they actually haven't got true faith in it themselves. They are just brain washed). Because we are so tired and bored of their absolutely ridiculous beliefs and arguements on here, we don't always have the energy to even reply. However, you, and some other Gursikhs did, so Vaheguru Bless you. And by the way, to Mand5, you are NOT a Sikh, you're a member of the Rhadasoami occult club. If you do want to befriend us Sikhs, you can help us by letting us know which Sikh Gurdwara your Rhadasoami mates, and that comedian you call a Guru, are going to knock down next?

This has been discussed lots of times...Look upi the video by chardikala jatha where they do a Q&A sessiion on Marijuana and Sikhs... in the video it says in Nihang tradition the recipe for Shaheedi Degh was handed down by Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj himself and the recipe should only consist of 5 leaves of cannabis to be added. Comes down to whay you personally believe, the way I see it you just have a load of revisionist post 1800 ideoligy all of a sudden casting doubts and pointing fingers at Puratan maryada..there is enough evidence in the books written by the british as well as our own historical books such as Panth prakash, suraj parakash etc to clarify puratan maryada such as Jhatkaa, Shaheedi degh etc were common accepted practises amongst the Khalsa Fauj.

Seek, O Goya always the company of the True, For, the Seekers of Truth have only found Him.

I was fortunate enough to find an old video of the Shaheed Akal Takhat Jathedar giving gurbani updesh. The video and audio have been put onto GurmatVeechar. The divan is incomplete but still it is worth listening to The video link is here http://www.gurmatveechar.com/zenphoto/Katha/Shaheed_Jathedar_Giani_Gurdev_Singh_Kaunke/Shaheed.Jathedar.Giani.Gurdev.Singh.Kaunke--Seva.Nu.Lagda.Meva.mp4.php The audio link is here http://www.gurmatveechar.com/audios/Katha/01_Puratan_Katha/Shaheed_Jathedar_Giani_Gurdev_Singh_Kaunke/Shaheed.Jathedar.Giani.Gurdev.Singh.Kaunke--Seva.Nu.Lagda.Meva.mp3 Enjoy

I'm a bit of a fence-sitter on the whole. A couple of controversial opinions here or there, but on the whole a bit vanilla, sadly. Wish I wasn't. Wish I was extreme!!! :cool2:

There are reports from the first few administration reports that the British published after the annexation of Punjab in 1849 stating that many of the disbanded members of the Khalsa army had became thugs! That's thugs like the ones in South India who used to strangle their victims. I don't know how much you can believe these reports but they do state that these thugs were not as vicious as the Hindustani variety and most were from the mazhabi caste. The British had to seek the help of Colonel Sleeman's office of Thugee who eradicated Thugs in Central India to take on Thugs in Punjab. Sleeman is the character played by Pearce Brosnan in the film 'The Deceivers'.

kidda paaji, i highly doubt jagga jatt, was a member of the sikh empires army, coz he was born after 1900, round about 1901-1905, that im sure of, but regardin sikhs becomin dakus, i wudnt b suprised, anythin 2 oppose the british was done by apnay. Dakus like him, and later sucha singh soorma r sumink 2 b proud of. Even if they wern't gursikhs (they trimmed beards n drank sharab), they stil upheld the sikhi ethos, of never doin zabardasti of rapin n lootin innocents, they were wat the west call "a robin hood" type of person, who robbed the dirty rich (choudarys) and gave to the poor. Isnt it funny how the english have 2 make up fake characters of the past 2 give em an identity 2 b proud of (st george killin a dragon n robin hood), both fake ppl n made up, yet as sikhs n panjabis we got endless heroes 2 sing and learn about n look upto, i for 1 am sooooooooooooooooooooooooo glad im born in a sikh house and a panjabi house 2!! panjabi heroes: jagga jatt daku/sucha singh soorma/jeona mohr/abd'ullah bhatti (dullah bhatti)/(jamal n fatah rajputs)/udham singh/bhagat singh etc sikh heroes: ALL THE SHAHEEDS, the list is tooooo long, u kno who they r guys english heroes: St George (a turk not even english n a fake character)/robin hood (fake character, who i thort was genuine coz of nottinghams forests) scottish heroes: william wallace (legend n genuine babar sher of the highlands, nuff respect)!!, rob roy/im sure they have more, but im not educated enuff on their history. soz for the rant, safe

Probably not but does it matter?

Gurbani surely does say to do simran all day. There is a reason why Gursikhs and knowledgable parents put there kids into Sikhi at a very young age. As the child gets older his spiritual wisdom grows, where he is able to do simran all day and still do worldly task with full attention. You can say he had an head start to figure out how to complete this 'tough' task. I have seen Sikhs get into Sikhi later in life and they still are able to grab hold of simran all day, while living a worldly life. Im take it you are starting later in your life to actually start doing bhagti and can't find the time to do bhagti and when you do, then you get mixed feels how to feel toward your family. There is only one way to escape the up and down feelings and move forward in Sikhi. Its to do bhagti with intense desire for many hours and go to the Gurdwara and do seva in the Gurdwara for the sangat. While doing seva make sure you are doing simran. Just like how a wife sings her husbands praises all day..........Sikhs sing their husband Lord's praises all day, while doing seva. ONce the desire to sing praises of Maharaj gets higher, then automatically you would want to go partake in the world, love creation equally and do every task while singing Maharaj's praises. This does not mean you stop partaking in the world until you reach this point. This means you need to put aside atleast 2 hours a day to contemplate over Gurbani. Most of my day is occupied by contemplating over Gurbani and im still running around doing worldly things. Every task just comes easy when we are doing simran all day. Every task is done with care and no task feels like you need to finish this one to get to the next...........trying to escape a task. Don't get stuck on how you are feeling at the moment. This will drive you crazy. Instead focus on praising Maharaj all day and Maharaj will calm your mind and bodies inner eat. One reason why we do simran all day long is to calm the body and mind (anger, lust, ego, greed, moh), so it does not bother us with its manmat ways. If a person is truly doing simran all day, then how can he feel angry toward another or anything. How can he feel moh toward anyone or lust? Your mind is occupied with the wife, kids and probably work. And your thinking if i give myself to Satguru then i might lose love for my wife and kids and you are scared of what might happen afterwards. This won't happen. Most likely right now you are loving your wife and kids through moh, ego, and lust. If we give our mind and body to Satguru, then Satguru cools the inner heat of moh, ego, and lust. And replaces them with uncondintional love, where you still love your wife and kids, but just with a higher purpose in life.

at the cost of repeating myself - My solution is to ask the couple to practise a shabad for like 2 months on tabla and harmonium and sing it on the day of their wedding .... music is a very powerful force and being a part of sangat (regardless of their background) - will eventually nudge them (the couple) towards a sikh lifestyle

I dont think we should cut all our ties with radhasoamis. we should try to slowly deprogram their way of thinking. they are sucked into this cult. the reason why this gets to me is because, the sangat are innocent they dont know any better. you really dont know what its like. you really god is before you. radhasoami is very dangerous. re anand karaj - i heard back in the day only those who have had chhaked amrit (charan or khanda di pahul) could partake in mariage. if this is true... we should try and maintain this tradition as much as possible.

do you think that Radha swamis should be allowed to have Anand karaj in gurdwaras given the latest sandesh by Sri Akal Takht Sahib concerning marriages of non-sikhs in gurdwaras?

There are some people who just want to stir up a controversy. "Guru Granth ji maneyo Pargat Gura ki deh." It is for everyone to believe in and they can learn from it it is jagat Guru. However Radha Soamis say it is only a book of shabads and Sikhs should stop bowing to it. One thing where they contradict themselves is Narad, if asked who Narad's Guru was they say Shabad. So if Narad's Guru was a Shabad what problem do they have with Sikhs having a shabad Guru? And of course Bani is for everyone if properly respected. It isn't entirely censored like muslims and christians do to their bibles or how Radha Soamis say only they get their naam. And what is the Radha Soami's qurbaani? Has he sacrificed his sons? Have his disciples fought with their heads cut off? Has he himself attained Shaheedi? How many Shaheeds do they have? And how many people become Radha Soamis internationally? What will be done when he their leader dies? How long will deh dhari preachers last in their cult?

Pure gold. Going to download this and send it to people who believe in these anti-Sikh people.

What these swindlers (radhasoamis, lucha sauda, noor mehlia, other pakhndis) have got their own, whatever is there it all belongs to Guru Granth Sahibji. They are using Gurbani to keep running their addaas or fake shops for collecting money from the people. These swindlers sugarcoat their poisonous discourses with Gurbani and offer it to the people in the name of amrit (nectar). There is a saying that :ਰਾਧਾਸੋਆਮੀ ਰਾਧਾਸੋਆਮੀ ਅਧੀਆ ਸਵੇਰੇ ਬੋਤਲ ਸ਼ਾਮੀਂ, ਦੁਪਹਿਰੇ ਮਿਲ ਜਾਵੇ ਤਾਂ ਤੇਰੀ ਮੇਹਰਬਾਨੀ. Who ever radhasomia I have come across till now, I found them to be characterless, cheaters & opportunist to the core. Their motto is: ਝੂਠ ਬੋਲਨਾ ਤੇ ਘਟ ਤੋਲਨਾ

The five names of RS beas is: 1. Jot Niranjan. 2. Omkar. 3. Rarankar. 4. Sohang. 5. Sat Nam The Radhasoamis of Agra(who are the original) have a different Mantar. For them "RadhaSoami" is the mantar given to them not the 5 worded mantar of Beas. In fact Jaimal Singh wasn't even given the "gurgadhi" by Shiv Dayal. Jaimal Singh is not mentioned in any of the Radhasoami documents during the time of Shiv Dayal. He was just a pretender of the Radhasoami Guruship. When Shiv Dayal died, there were many Radhasoamis who can be considered bigger fish in the pond then Jaimal Singh. Shiv Dayal's brother (who is called Chachaji), his wife (radha ji), or even his biggest Chela Rai SaligRam. Even the term "Radhasoami" is a distortion. The Radhasoamis now try to give it a mystical meaning by claiming that Radha means soul and soami(swami) means God. When in fact, Radha actually means Shiv Dayal's wife who name was Radha and Soami means Shiv Dayal himself since that is what Radhasoamis at the time called Shiv Dayal. So Radha Soami means (Radhaji and Swami Shiv Dayal). Further more, Shiv Dayal never really started the Radhasoami faith. This faith was the invention of Rai Saligram who was the closest Chela of Shiv Dayal and this fact is also supported by the legal will of Shiv Dayal where he states My Path was the Path of Sat Naam and Anami Naam. The Radhasoami faith is of Saligram's making The Radhasoami faith and it's various branches are all a fraud. But the Beas and it's break away branches (noor-mahalias, sacha sauda, kirpal singh's group, dera baba bagga singh) are one of the biggest frauds today. We as Sikhs should inform all the people we know about this heretic cult so more people are not misled and destroy their priceless human Janam.

Some good audio's to be heard from Giani Sant Singh Jee Maskeen (Panth Ratan). This is a complete series of 8 youtube parts, I am just pasting 2 parts below.

they say "the tounge doesnt let you tell the naam to anyone. even if you wanted to tell someone your tounge wouldnt allow you"... well someone somewhere spilt the beans! unless the tounge doesnt allow but the fingers do! - first class idiots. loooool @ "its like watching a football match,, with one side scoring :D " - too funny

Paneer monster rocksss!!!!!! Beautifully answered :strong: its like watching a football match,, with one side scoring :D

bro u SMASHED IT on this thread. u shudda asked that fool, if we threw a rock @ their baba wud he b able 2 stop it and leave a print on it (like Guru Nanak), or wud it smash him in the face and subsequently file a complaint 2 the police against us?? These fake pakhandis r a joke man, seriously!

True post N30Singh, Sant Maskeen Ji mentioned this in one of the kathas I was listening to where Sant Maskeen Ji talks about Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji and looking at the spiritual side of Guru Sahib and comparing what it means to look Guru Sahib from the outside and what it means to look at the inside. The explanation was beautiful. :

Can you show us please where you have seen this?

you are partly correct... this is also having a damaging affect on sangat... some radhasoamis realise that radhasoami is a backward cult... but they dont come back to sikhi... their faith is damaged and they become athiests. its very sad. radhaosami is a poison. I try to save as many poeple as i can. they dont even want to do vaheguru mantra (mantra of our guru sahibs)... they say "we have our own mantra". its a very hard, long and draining process to deprogram the way they think. i also agree that the newer generation of sikhs are more political then spiritual... we need to take both to the highest hight.

I usually like to look at the root of problem. The reason why people are going more towards other pseudo cults like radhaswamis is because lack of bhramvidya in the panth as i posted earlier - http://www.sikhsanga...a-in-the-panth/ ..it's replaced by bhandi parchar - abhramic version of Vahiguroo/God, rational, missionary, bhausari thought which shoved sikhi in a tunnel. This is single handly an number one cause of people are swaying away from sikhi because of our parcharaiks and parchar. While political activism is good and have very special place in sikhi as dharam and rajneeti are not seperated they are together. I feel we have gone way overboard with political activism in gurdwaras to the point that we have forgotten spiritual sikhi (adhyatamic sikhi- sant aspect in panth) which is main layer of one's life. It's from sant aspect of one's life(dya, bhramgyan, sam dristhi, satogun) sipahi is born not the other way around..as i mentioned earlier - sipahi spirit in sikhi should be born, properly controlled, preserved and nurture from sant spirit not from sheer tamogun..sheer tamogun makes one rakshash and khalsa is not rakshash.!! Anyway, parchariks have gone way overboard with doing parchar of sipahi aspect in sikhi i.e - dhaadi varan/katha of our warriors, our guru sahiban..showing only one aspect- sipahi aspect of our guru sahib- For eg- Potral of Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji as only an warrior, not divine majestic master and giver to people from all walks of life..there were reasons why there are 52 poets in guru maharaj darbar, there was reason why guru gobind singh maharaj was divine master and giver of raag vidya to all, there was a reason why guru gobind singh maharaj created taksal , nirmale, sevapanthis (scholary knights in the sikhism), there was a reason why sri guru gobind singh ji wrote majestic gurbani in true poetic form such as - jaap sahib, sri akaal ustat showing sargun and nirgun beauty of Vahiguroo and there was a reason why bhai nand lal wrote deep spiritual craving poetry towards majestic divine sri guru gobind singh ji so our pendu bandai don't potray sri guru gobind singh according to their own mindset and according to their own little tunnel version of sikhi..!!..but everything happened opposite in the panth..!! We didn't even get the basic and extremely important matter right. We failed to provide theological explanation of what is Vahiguroo in sikhism and let alone mystic layer of sikhi. Most of our parcharaik(missionary etc type) have used abrahamic, semetic version of god in Sikhism to explain Vahiguroo...people need to do their own research on sargun nirgun aspect of vahiguroo (this is what most sikh theology is based on)..On this forum we had a deep vichar with bijla singh ji on it - http://www.sikhsanga...irgun-nirankar/ ..people can read upon it and do their own search..!! There is no bar set for our parcharaiks in the gurwdaras. So any joe blow comes along do parchar with their own mindset/bibek buddhi to make a quick buck. Gyani thakur singh ji patialawale himself said in japji sahib katha that i can go deep but people who are listening are complaining that there is no bir ras in the katha, even sangata are addicted to bir ras katha which are being feed everyday in the gurdwara without keeping balance. The reason our people are attracted to radhaswamis is our parcharik fault and our fault of failing to demand some depth- ask parcharak questions, ask committe vales collectively as sangat to have question and answers sessions with our parcharaiks..radhaswamis steal stuff from our mystic traditions and mix it little bit brand it and present to normal joe with fancy terms- normal joe blow gets totally blown off with mysticism..while radhaswamis steal stuff from our mystic tradition/layer our parcharaiks are still stuck at the shariat layer of dharam and feed shariat layer of dharam all day long without going to depth to sangat. Normal joe in sangat thinks with ignorance- looks like this is sikhi and search somewhere else to fulfill their curiosity or get peace. Our parchariks have shoved sikhi in a tunnel and bought beautiful divine path of sikhi down to mere "dhadi varan, sakhiyas', sikhitothemax translations' Ang- 1083 saraa sareeath lae ka(n)maavahu || Let your practice be to live the spiritual life. thareekath tharak khoj ttolaavahu || Let your spiritual cleansing be to renounce the world and seek God. maarafath man maarahu abadhaalaa milahu hakeekath jith fir n maraa ||3|| Let control of the mind be your spiritual wisdom, O holy man; meeting with God, you shall never die again Sorry don't want make this too long, each one of us and parcharak have moral and spiritual duty to explore sikh deep within both internally and externally. In Akaal ustat-

what i've noticed is that while there still maybe alot of elders that are Radhasoami...but their kids who are born/bred in UK question Radhasoami-ism and find it flawed...hence why i know of sooo many kids who don't want to associate or go to their satsangs in Bedford like their parents do and now call Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee their Guru (whether they're even kesdadhri or not). I think the elder generation are uneducated and follow anything that walks, but their own next generation will come back into Gurmat...and i'm seeing that first hand happening now - i know of too many examples!

An eye-opener of a post from Paneer Monster. Usually I'm of the frame of mind of live and let live (as long as beadbi isn't occuring or there's no intentional distortions designed to erode the very foundations of the Sikh faith) but as Paneer Monster brilliantly highlighted, such people turn to these sects out of desperation or, in some cases, laziness at not wishing to learn of the gem of a faith we already have. I do agree there are those at the top of the Sikh faith who have a lot to answer for, but we can't blame others for our personal failings. There comes a time when, as individuals, we have to step-up and make the right choices.

worn off.

Never trust anyone you 'likes' their own post. :biggrin2: :blush2:

I do not blame if u call our guru bible while other religious books r treated like books as it contains fiction storeies but Guru Granth Shiab is guru its words r guru words gurshabad if u listen to it in open mind even u may not be knowing gurbani u will understand it.Second concept is Guru Panth it is khalsa panth represented by Panch piaras,we have great sikhs like Bhai Taru Singh ji ,mANI sINGH JI WHO GAVEUP THEIR LIVES LIKE TRUE SIKHS.DOES RADHASOAMI SOCALLED GURU HAS GUTS TO GET HIS SKULL SEPERATED LIKE TARU SINGHJI .He is busy diverting river water to his dera in beas making farmers poor of 80 villages poor and homeless by encroaching on their lands what kind of guru u call him.

Radha soami and dera choota sauda target unpard bibian (elder and young ladies) in India. These babay prey on young girls and abuse them and then the elderly unpard (uneducated) woman then convince the family to believe in this. Those who follow these cult leaders in the west should be ashamed they fall for such simplistic form of grooming. Here's a documentary on these thugs: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_wFx76yhH0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40tl0nBWHJk&feature=plcp

it really saddens me... all those poor radhasoami sangat. vaheguru. its really not their fault they have gone to rs baba because there is many problems in life, and its goto be said... our gurdwaras do not provide the support which our community needs. our leaders do not deal with grass root problems and communicate with us on a level. we (newer generations) need to identify these problems and take the lead in this. radhasoamis do not practice gurbani kirtan. ALL OUR SIKH GURU SAHIBS PRACTICED GURBANI KIRTAN.... 5TH GURU SAHIB invented the saranda musical instrument... radhasoami baba says it is WRONG to use musical instruments for kirtan. when radhasoami's sing gurbani sahib, they never use instruments as its aginst radhasoami mat... this is stupid... musical instruments are CENTRAL TO SIKHI. radhasoami baba does not know better then our Satguru Sahibs. i can go on and on. i really can. please save your family and accept the truth. dont take my word for it. study sikh history study gurbani then you will see why we are not willing to embrase radhasoami's as a part of the sikh community.

Awesome answer Paneer Monster. I hope the OP will get the message loud and clear and come back to SIKHI.

mand5 - im an ex radhasoami..... before i continue, well done for seeking answers from another source other then your radhasoami community. for this i must commend your efforts. I use to ask my family questions, they use to tell me not to ask others because others are "non believers... they think there way is right"... also my family use to say "maharaji (rs baba) is a walking granth... those who insult him are acting in ignorance"... my friend... you, and all other radhasoamis that believe in this pakhandi baba have been brainwashed. i hate to disapoint you, but he isnt god - just the thought really does turn my stomach. the radhasoami baba is NOT antarjami (innermost knowing)... if he was, he would have knew my plans to turn to king of kings Guru Granth Sahib ji MAHARAJ - SACHE PATSHAH and he would have stoped me from doing so... but he didnt... hes nothing more then a con artist. please save your family from the falsehood of radhasoami. at their time of death u do not want them thinking of a pakhandi "maharaj"... or reciting a fake mantra. Everyone knows Gurbani is truth and real... you want your family thinking of Vaheguru and reciting Vaheguru at their time of death. i can answer all your questions. please message me your phone numeber and we can have a chat. many things wrong with radhasoami mat. 1 - randha soami land in beas is currently legally in the name of Guru Granth Sahib Ji Mahraj 2- radha soami forbids alchahol and meat... not tobacco... read into radha soami history, or read "the masters answers" and find out why tobaco is not forbiden (or allowed) in radhaosami faith 3-radha soami replaced sikh greating of WAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA WAHEGURU JI KI FATEH with "radhasoami" 4-radha soami replaced gurmantra with a fake mantra 5- radha soamis do not belioeve in guru manio granth 6- radha soamis do nothing for the victims of the 84 genocide - not even the radhasoami victims 7-radhasoami baba does not speak out against injustices (guru nanak sahib did) i can go on and on and on. the list is truely endless. radhasoami baba is nothing... nowhere near our 10 satguru sahibs and guru granth sahib ji. the works of our Puran Satguru Sahibs is nothing short then the Work of God. All radha soami baba does is fool innocent and simple sangat - this is no achievement as punjabis are generally simple in nature. Radha soami refuse to believe GURU granth sahib ji is guru... yet radhasoami mat use to be centered around Guru granth sahib ji. Guru Granth Sahib Ji use to be parkash in beas... they wheeled in sikh sangat with ttheir fake prachar... messing with Gurbani is messing with Vaheguru... this is not a small sin that can be overlooked. yes gurbani and guru granth sahib ji maharaj is universal... but that does not mean it can be misused. this is mahapaap (huge sin). radha soami copy sikh traditions like guru ka langar, yet they do not believe its necessary to keep kara kachera kirpan kesh khanga... they call dasam bani false in "spiritual letters" book in "spiritual heritage" book they say sri harimanir sahib is just "brick and water" - how offensive the other radhasoami book "guru nanak, his mystic teachings" - is wholly offensive to sikhs. bhai gurdas sahib's bani is discredited... they also disagree with the documentated history behind gurdwara panja sahib... the list is endless.... i turely can go on and on. why does radhasoami only mess with sikh history and sikh beliefs and not the beliefs of other faiths?? why does radhasoami baba keep sikh apperance?? regarding your comment "you need a living guru" this is true. guru granth sahib ji is alive. if you believe in guru granth sahib ji mahjaraj you will be aware of the following truths: "bani guru guru hai bani vich bani amritsare" "sun sun jeeva terey bani" and others. there is no difference between gurbani and the guru.... we live by listening to GURBANI. we can not believe in what you guys believe in. satbachan is not gurbani... far from it. a sikh would never recite the words of tobacco users, and a sikh would never accept a tobacco user as their satguru. tobacco is strictly forbidden in sikh faith. even if gurbani told us to run to a living human for salvation (which it doesnt)... i would never run to the feet of such a fraudster radha sooami baba. do not study gurbvani from pakhandi baba, please learn gurmukhi and study for yourself. ive done it all... my family use to visit haynes park, and beas... we used to attend bhandara and put our names down for sewa... i am so thankful that Vaheguru has saved my family from that path and brought us to the path of Gursikhi. I am deeply saddened that there are literally millions of radha soami devotees. its very saddening. ill finish on this tuk of guru gobind singh ji maharaj.. sagal duar ko shhad ke, ghaiho tuharo duar, banhe gahe kio laj as gobind das tuhar - i have abandoned all gates (paths) and i have come to yours o lord, o lord please protect my honour and hold my arm, for i am your humble servant for any mistakes bhul chuk maaf vaheguru ji ka khalsa vaheguru ji ki fateh. (mand5, inbox me, we can discuss this further if you wish, i know its hard to accept... but believe me your baba is a fake... go back to the house of Our Puran Satguru's... we know for a fact they are real and true... have no doubts and embrace their pavitar bani)

Mand5 I suggest you learn to be a bit more respectful before you think its right to question Sikhi in such an abrupt and negative manner. Just come out with it why pretend as you are a RS are you not comfortable with your "panth?" I think the newbie monitoring system is broke as it is letting in all kinds of weird stuff

If you're going to come onto a SIKH forum seeking answers to questions, you're going to have to stop referring to Guru Granth Sahib Jee as a "sikh bible".

What do you guys expect? I mean one of the main princilpes of sikhism is about equality and not differentiating between castes but sadly this is definitely not followed by many sikhs today. In my opinion not only Sikhs but everyone should not believe in the caste system, it is mean and outdated. These "low-caste" ppl are not even considered sikh, I've heard the word "Adharmi" used for them. Furthermore I dont think anyone converting to christianity is anyone's business. Everyone has the freedom to practice the religion of their choice and besides isnt Sikhi all about One God anways?? I think you guys are forgetting that. I dont think these missionaries should be using sikh words as mentioned earlier though but other than that its really not that big of a deal. There are other issues in this world bigger than this.

West London veerji dont leave this forum...their are sangat who appreciate your posts...and learn much from them..dont abadon your brothers and sisters....i agree with you the mods on here continueously deleting topics which i start up..its like they are trying to keep the sangat in the dark about many important topics out there...etc the anti gurmat and cultish behaviour of 3ho sikhs...and many more....MESSAGE TO THE MODERATORS YOUVE ALREADY BANNED ENOUGH PEOPLE FROM THIS FORUM AND ALSO DRIVEN MANY OTHERS AWAY....SORT IT OUT!!!....and West London Singh do not leave us!

Sant Jarnail Singh Khalsa Brindrawale's own brother Captain Singh saw 5000 people take Amrit from Sant Ji (as part of the Panj Piyare) in 1 day! If we are given another leader like Sant Ji all we be in Chardi Kala! In the meantime, we could send in the White American and Russian Sikhs to bring the brown Punjabis back into their priceless Sikhi. Good luck to the real Christians and anyone who wants to join them. However, I have not seen anything in the above vidoes to suggest that all those starring on stage weren't simply the Pastor's own paid people. That also includes the lady in the second video who drags her feet, shakes, cries, and makes areoplane noises! It's nice to think of anyone joining any religion becuase they are inspired by it. But the cheap tricks like those above, to con people into a religion, are just plain sad!

I know, thats why I support Khalsa Aid and there work that prevents poor Sikhs to take such drastic steps. But we keep crying about Hinduisation but forget growing Islam (due to Gujjars - I have heard first hand accounts how some of them spit while passing by Gurdwaras) and Christianity in Punjab? Paneer veer, you got it. They use Sikh appearence and vocabulary to fool uneducated masses. Their pastors usually keep the Sikhi saroop even after converting to fool us. They use Satsang instead of congregation, Satguru for Jesus etc. Then there are the so called lower caste people who also have gotten into this trap and adopted Ravidasia 'religion' instead of Sikhi. One suggestion; When you go India, don't offer more than 100rs while matha tekking. Use the remaining money to give to the poor for education, etc. Afterall Gareeb da Munh, Guru Di Golak.

What do you expect when Sikhs are turning people away and putting other's down every chance they get. It can be for any reason, their poor financial status, or their 'lower caste', or the fact that they may not have good education etc. Whatever the case may be, every human deserves some respect, which as I have personally seen is not given to many, especially the poor. Have you seen the condition of servants in Punjabi homes? They are treated like dogs! When someone is in need for help, we turn a blind eye to it. You don't have to go far to see this, it has happened on this very forum many times in the past. On the other hand, the Christian organizations are actively seeking out the poor and needy, offering them a helping hand. Think about it, if you were in terrible financial shape and had a hard time putting food on the table and some Christian person came an gave you help, it would naturally make you curious about Christianity. All we Sikhs are doing is using all the money we have to build big gurudwara buildings, instead, we should be helping the poor and the needy. 99.99% of the population does not care about religion when they can not put food in their stomach and roof over their head. Every thing else is secondary to roti (food), kapra (clothing), makaan (housing).