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Freedom fighters of all Qaums/Nations/Religions are potential role models and worthy of respect.

Big mistake by harbajan Singh then, maybe he should be told the panthic patrol on sikh sangat disagrees with him simply doing a request to singers not to base all there songs on kaam and drugs. What world do we live in, I thought it was a positive message.

Nanaksar movement was started by Baba Nand Singh Ji. He had utmost faith in Guru Ji. He preached that Guru Granth Sahib is the living embodiment of Guru Nanak and should be treated as such. When Baba Ji did meditation, he used to go into the deepest jungles so sangat wouldn't disrupt him. Tigers would guard him. They aren't gurdwaras - they are called Taaths and are apolitical. Up until recently, money ("maya") was not allowed and if you wanted to donate, it would be food for the langar. The focus was always on bhagti rather than shakti.

Translated from “Ardas Shakti”, written by Sardar Raghbir Singh Bir. This story is pretty inspiring. ******BEGINNING OF TRANSLATION*********** AUKHI GHAREE NAA DEKHAN DAYEE, APNA BIRAD SAMAALE|| My daughter (S. Raghbir Singh jee's daughter) was expecting a baby. Since this was her first time, it was expected to be a painful delivery. Till nine months, my daughter’s health was normal but at end of the ninth months, her whole body swelled and became sore. Due to some other reasons too, the doctors did not think that this would be a normal delivery case. When I told the senior doctor that for while, everything in my home had been normal and that Vaheguru had never disappointed me, he started laughing, called the other doctors and said, “Look, Mr. Singh is sure that the baby will be delivered normally.” Other doctors too addressed me as Mr. Singh and told me that they too want the baby to be born by normal delivery but all circumstances are leading towards delivery through operation and that they have to be prepared for that. When the time for delivery came, my daughter was taken to the hospital. All day she stayed in great pain and around 11pm the doctor told me that next day around 4am – 5am the baby will be born and that I should go home now. My daughter had become very weak after enduring pain all day. She called me over and said to me that she does not have power to even do ardaas and that I should perform ardaas (prayer) for her. She said that she could sustain pain anymore and asked me to do ardaas to rid her of pain. I myself was in a state of shock and surprise over the events of the whole day. My daughter had been in pain all day and the doctors were suggesting that she would have to sustain pain all night as well. He condition was very serious at that time. After much persuasion by the doctors to leave for home, I came back home around 11pm, so that I may knock the door of Siri Guru Granth Sahib jee and do ardaas. Before going for home, I went to the labour room (where babies are delivered) and I did ardaas and recited the following shabad with full faith: BILAVAL MAHALLA 5 || TAATEE VAAO NAA LAGAYEE, PARBRAHAM SHARNAAYEE|| CHAUGIRD HAMARAI RAMKAAR, DUKH LAGAI NAA BHAAYEE|| 1 || SATGUR POORA BHETIYA, JIN BANAT BANAAYEE|| RAAM NAAM AUKHAD DIYA, EKA LIV LAAYEE|| RAHAO || 1 || RAAKH LIYE TINN RAKHANHAAR, SABH BIYAADH MITAAYEE|| KAHO NANAK KIRPA BHAYEE, PRABH BHAYE SAHAAYEE|| 2 || I came home while my daughter and my wife stayed at the hospital. It took me 10 minutes to come home in my car. At 11:10pm I started doing ardaas with folded hands. My idea was that since I will not be able to sleep, I would spend the whole night doing ardaas and simran. Going through this ardaas what I experienced and what I saw, would be hard to explain but I will try my best to write for the benefit of readers of “Aatam-Science” (A Sikh spiritual magazine) what occurred during my ardaas: WHAT HAPPENED IN THE BEGINNING OF MY ARDAAS In the beginning of my ardaas I had a very scary thought. This thought and vision had been created as a result of my faithlessness or maybe it was created as a test for me. I am not sure of this. I think before every spiritual experience, Maaiya tries its best not to let one escape from its clutches. If the spiritual student stays strong and does not falter during such tests, then illusions like maaiya cannot do anything and the infinite power of Vaheguru protects the Sikh. In the beginning of the ardaas this thought came in my mind that first of all, Vaheguru in front of whom I am doing ardaas probably does not exist and even if he does exist, there is nothing he can do about it as the current situation of my daughter is the result of her bad karma from previous life. The inner voice addressed me saying that my daughter must have done some very bad karma in her previous life and for this she will have to suffer. The thoughts came to my mind along the lines that the condition of my daughter in fact is very serious and that what the doctors are saying is truth. I am not going to get anything positive out of this ardaas. Then the thought came to my mind that it was my duty to stick around my daughter who is at deathbed and instead of sticking around with her, I have run home to do ardaas like a coward. Instead of facing the problem, I am looking for refuge a futile thing like ardaas. After this I saw in my thoughts the dead body of my daughter and the thought came to my mind that it is futile to do ardaas for a dead body. I FIGHT BACK THE NEGATIVE THOUGHTS OF MY MIND I was very surprised to see such attacks of my mind and got worried. After I saw the dead body of my daughter in my thoughts I cried out, “NO NO NO, this cannot happen! My father Vaheguru is all mighty. My Vaheguru will not consider my daughter’s previous karma. I have come under his protection and he always keeps honour of the ones who come to him. The scene and the thoughts that I had seen are all illusion. My Vaheguru is million times powerful than Maaiya the illusion. My eyes can be deceived, as what they see may be wrong. My ears can be deceived, as what they listen to could be wrong. My daughter can be deceived by illusion of maaiya. The doctors can be deceived by maaiya but I am a Sikh of Guru Arjun Dev jee and I am a Khalsa of Guru Gobind Singh jee. I cannot be deceived (dhokha) by maiya. I know that if Vaheguru wants he can survive us without breathing. My daughter will surely get cured”. After saying out all this, I extended my hazooriya towards Vaheguru and said, “Sache Paatshah, please don’t look at my weaknesses. Cure my sweet daughter. Please prove the falsehood of maaiya”. When the above stated thoughts went across my mind, the previous scary thoughts vanished. My anxious and tired mind was filled with peace and fearlessness. In this new state of mind, I was saying: VAHEGURU JEE KAA KHALSA VAHEGURU JEE KEE FATEH|| While sitting in this state of mind, I heard the phone ring. I picked up the phone and found out that my daughter had given birth to a baby at 11:43pm and that the birth was natural and not by operation. Doctors were surprised at this. My daughter and her child were doing just fine. After the phone call, I was filled with gratitude and started reciting the following pankiti of Gurbani: VAARIYA NAA JAAVAAN IKK BAAR|| TU SADA SALAMAT NIRUNKAAR|| ***********END OF THE TRANSLATION************ This is a very good story that tells us a lot about Vaheguru and how to do ardaas. The key to ardaas is to not let negative thoughts come near and to let positive thoughts fill our mind. Faith is the key to the success of ardaas. Vaheguru listens to ardaas from anyone who comes to his sharan. Dropati whose honour Vaheguru kept was no mahapurakh. Gajj who was saved by Vaheguru did not have any bhagtee. What we need to do is submit to Vaheguru. He does not know how to say no to his bhagats. If we lead our lives according to the hukams of Guru Sahib and try to keep his rehit and Naam, we have nothing to worry about. Daas, Kulbir Singh

Did you actually make an attempt to ask the sewadar or Granthi Singh about it? This is a garden of Sahib Sri Guru Nanak Dev Jee Maharaj. There will be flowers of different colors, shapes, sizes and fragrances. They all add to the beauty of the entire garden. The maryada of Sri Akal Takht Sahib jee is the gardener and takes out the weeds and maintains the flowers and keeps their beauty intact.

It's shocking sometimes how childlike sorry brat like people can get. Are we becoming the Taliban now?! Some people willing to accept a Persian source which will obv have islamic influence re images but not a sikh source because they say it had Hindu influence?! Ridiculous. And where do you stop if we become hell bent on removing images? A painting is an image, a picture of a flower is an image, pics of martyrs are images, pics of darbar sahib are images, pics of gurbani are images, gurbani itself is a written image of te shabad, do we get rid of it all? Do we uproot all of darbar sahib to remove images of flowers n birds? People get knickers in twist over gurus images but plaster pics of kids n family over homes. Such hypocrisy! Sant Kartar Singh Ji said that pics of guru sahibs are like a walking stick. They can help a person onto the path, they can help a person learn how to walk, but eventually the sikh has no need for pics (walking stick) n walks himself with bani. It's the usual throw the baby out with the bath water thing, rather than deal with the issue revisionists try n find a new jihad to fight! This is such a non issue it's funny, but at the same time it's expressive of the twisted way revisionists are trying to reframe Sikhi. Benti, beware of these people, they cause havoc by stirring pointless isssues but have no iinterest in real Sikhi of gurbani abhiyaas, naam kamai, seva of guru and sangat and spiritual progression. If you want to be a missionary of Guru Nanak Dev Ji then be one like Bhai Gurdas Ji. But oh hang on, you don't believe in his vaars, you can't open a pothi of his vaars near maharajh and you can't get your head around his words even if you do try. Never mind.

See there is a WORD WHICH EXISTS IN DICTIONARY CALLED "PERSPECTIVE" IT IS YOUR'S PERSPECTIVE AND LET THERE BE A MINE ONE BUT IF U SAY THAT HARBHAJAN'S SAROOP DOESN'T EFFECT OUR SOCIETY THEN U R WRONG HERE. HE IS BORN SIKH WRITES SINGH BEFORE HIS NAME AND REPRESENTS A SIKH IDENTITY TO WHOLE WORLD..YOUNDER GERNATION LOOKING AT HIM THINKS WEARING CAP AND TRIMMING BEARD IS NOT A TABOO.AND FOLLOW HIM AS THIER ROLE MODEL..PLZ TELL ME THAT IS THIS TREND NOT EFFECTING OUR ROOTS AND CULTURE ? OUR DASHMESH PITAJI GAVE US SUCH GREAT BACHANS SUCH AS KANGA DO WAQT KARE PAGH CHUNE KAR BHANDE HOE SIKH TOPI DHARE SAT(SEVEN) JANAM KUCHTE(SKIN DISEASE) HOE MARE IF HE SAYS HIMSELF SINGH THEN HE HAS TO FOLLOW SIKH CODE OF CONDUCT OR OTHERWISE HE MAY BECOME HARBHAJAN KUMAR AND FOR GOD'S SAKE DOESN'T DESTROY OUR SIKH COMUNITY

I got this from facebook, apparently today is hug a singh day.. :biggrin2: :biggrin2: :biggrin2: So who wants brotherly hug and brotherly puppy on their cheek? hehe.. i am hugging you all today

Before listening to the katha I had thought about the shabad and where ever I did not understand clearly, I depended on Sant ji`s katha. As stated before Bhagat Kabir Ji Maharaj is calling Prahlaad ji Maharaj, Sant Prahlaad Ji as he earned the title. Furthermore as I thought, Bhagat Kabir Ji Maharaj had received Naam from Sri Vaheguru Ji Maharaj. The doubt you had about the pot is cleared up in the katha, where Bhagat Kabir Ji Maharaj is using the pot to feed the Saints everyday. Bhagat ji`s mother is bad mouthing Bhagat ji and Bhagat Raamanand Ji Maharaj and at this point Bhagat ji enters. Bhagat ji comes into the house and responds to his mother by saying: ਸਰਬ ਸੁਖਾ ਕਾ ਏਕੁ ਹਰਿ ਸੁਆਮੀ ਸੋ ਗੁਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਦਇਓ ॥ सरब सुखा का एकु हरि सुआमी सो गुरि नामु दइओ ॥ Sarab sukẖā kā ek har su▫āmī so gur nām da▫i▫o. O mother, the One Lord, the Lord and Master, is the source of all peace. The Guru has blessed me with His Name. ਸੰਤ ਪ੍ਰਹਲਾਦ ਕੀ ਪੈਜ ਜਿਨਿ ਰਾਖੀ ਹਰਨਾਖਸੁ ਨਖ ਬਿਦਰਿਓ ॥੩॥ संत प्रहलाद की पैज जिनि राखी हरनाखसु नख बिदरिओ ॥३॥ Sanṯ parahlāḏ kī paij jin rākẖī harnākẖas nakẖ biḏri▫o. ||3|| He preserved the honor of Prahlaad, and destroyed Harnaakhash with his nails. ||3|| ਘਰ ਕੇ ਦੇਵ ਪਿਤਰ ਕੀ ਛੋਡੀ ਗੁਰ ਕੋ ਸਬਦੁ ਲਇਓ ॥ घर के देव पितर की छोडी गुर को सबदु लइओ ॥ Gẖar ke ḏev piṯar kī cẖẖodī gur ko sabaḏ la▫i▫o. I have renounced the gods and ancestors of my house, for the Word of the Guru's Shabad. ਕਹਤ ਕਬੀਰੁ ਸਗਲ ਪਾਪ ਖੰਡਨੁ ਸੰਤਹ ਲੈ ਉਧਰਿਓ ॥੪॥੪॥ कहत कबीरु सगल पाप खंडनु संतह लै उधरिओ ॥४॥४॥ Kahaṯ Kabīr sagal pāp kẖandan sanṯėh lai uḏẖāri▫o. ||4||4|| Says Kabeer, God is the Destroyer of all sins; He is the Saving Grace of His Saints. ||4||4|| And please don`t go off track here and start a discussion on Bhagat Raamanand ji Maharaj. ਰਾਮਾਨੰਦ ਸੁਆਮੀ ਰਮਤ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ॥ रामानंद सुआमी रमत ब्रहम ॥ Rāmānanḏ su▫āmī ramaṯ barahm. Raamaanand's Lord and Master is the All-pervading Lord God. ang 1195

ded nawt i tell'ed ju? bikoz vi aar phraum pnjaab, vi kainaut hagg di garalz, batt onlee boyez

Rehn deh, sayapa pae joo gah

A lot of hero-worship of rich business-men in this thread. Typical Panjabis.... :giggle:

Taken from Gurmat Bibek forum http://gurmatbibek.com/forum/read.php?3,26527

I got this via text message: WJKK WJKF – Mata Sahib Kaur Academy Update: At the open meeting that was called by the sangat at the MSKSA building on Tues 29th Jan 2013 which was attended by owner Mohinder Singh who handed over his side of the paper work to sangat. It was agreed by the sangat that all issues raised will be addressed and clarified by the sangat from both parties and then resolved ASAP by collecting paper work from Rupinder Singh (management): -Income & Expenditure Statements, Slips proving payments made to SCYS Slough, Bank statements of Ilford SCYS, all other cash balances in relation to donations and loans from Sangat, How money much is outstanding to sangat, list of all equipment, furniture and fixtures taken from the building. The benti was sent to Rupinder Singh with a request to provide the paper work by Sunday the 3rd of Feb 2013. However No paper has been given to the sangat or mediators and Rupinder Singh refused to co- operate.

I think one of the things that made M. Ranjit Singh great was his impartiality. Sure, as a Sikh, he can be severely criticised as someone who lacked restraint, especially in the kaam department. Plus it's well known that he took opium and drank alcohol. Despite these personal things he was still a man with a grand vision, who put Panjab on the map. He didn't seem to let theological/religious debates/matters interfere with the business of running a state. Ultimately, what people (especially Panjabi Sikhs!!) really seem to want is security and opportunities to prosper (even the most holier than thou Sikh in the west does this)- he knew that and delivered it against all odds when Sikhs and Panjabis in generally had experienced all manner of hellish strife and upheaval. I believe that is why so many of his 'foibles' were tolerated. Plus it was another time, for whatever reasons, a lot more was tolerated back then - which had both positive and negative consequences. Akali Phoola Singh may have sabre rattled about M. Ranjit Singh's aashqeean, and order him to be whipped but deep down even he probably knew that no one else could do the job, that Ranjit Singh was doing. To me the whole Ranjit Singh legacy opens up a lot of seriously important questions for us today, questions that many apnay (especially those loudest who like to hide behind dogma), would probably feel seriously uncomfortable facing up to. No one can deny Ranjit Singh's inclusiveness and tolerance of differences was one of the key factors behind his success. Pair these with his worldly wisdom. He was astute and realistic. Today the lack of these very specific qualities amongst Sikhs has turned our once powerful community into a bunch of small time, myopic pendus, bickering over petty issues and completely failing to see the wider, global picture. We need an independent, intelligent, astute leader like this man - who (by all alcounts and I've read many of them!) could mix it up with the most devious of diplomats from so-called advanced nations and out outmaneuver them, more than ever. The question to ask may be: Can we can really have a great, relevant, globally effective leader, today, who conforms to the rigid codes of behaviour/discipline that more conservative members of our wider society feel are absolutely essential to be a 'good Sikh' in this day and age?

LOL one reply to you all here is the video where u can see those ninja turtles lollllllllll ps: a really nice movie coming out...

Nanaksar is upsamparda(sub branch) of nirmale samparda just like rara sahib, harkhowal, hoti mardan, naurangabad, reru sahib, bhucho kalan etc

Great Result this weekend, I was present throughout. The gurdwara committee, bully the Punjabi Singhs on a daily basis. Finally they made a stand for themself and their voice heard - the photo was just one issues over the years where the committee have treated them like crap and 2nd class citizens in the Guru's house. Lets not forget these veer and bhens of ours doing amazing seva of getting hundreds of kids everyweek into the gurdwara to learn punjabi and sikhi.

People aren't robots art can evoke strong emotions,It doesn't seem like anyone is worshiping theses pictures they were in langer hall it seems, not in darbar shaib. Art can be inspiring and thoughtful and beautiful and thought provoking. Sometimes keeping the peace is not the answer.

if U want to c SGPC run gurudwara having pic of Guru Harkishan and people go there and vow to the photo near prakash of Guru Granth Sahib I can certainly post that. There is quote " Stop praising what your grandparents did, start worrying what your grandchildren will do". Think about it. We can argue as much as we can, WE HAVE GURU THAT IS GURU GRANTH SAHIB IF YOU WANT TO BE NEAR TO GURU, GET A SWAROOP OF GURU SAHIB IN YOUR HOUSE. If you want he should be always near to you, memorize gurbani. Guru Nanak's guru SHABAD GURU AND OUR'S IS ALSO SHABAD GURU. My opinion is we should say not to pics ONLY OF GURU'S not of any historic event.

The issue is not just about accuracy. It is about praying to pics. Teach them all you want, some people don't wanna listen. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. I have seen Sikhs praying to pics of Guru Sahiban. Instead of reading Guru Granth Sahib, they just stand in front of the pic and do a short ardas. Guru Granth Sahib ji da satkar is not idol worship because guru ji is not an idol. Adi Granth has teachings within it that you can learn from and apply to your life. It has the writings of almost all the Gurus. If that isn't worthy of reverence, then what is? Is there any painting of Guru Sahiban done while they were alive? Has it been verified? Why do you need these representations anyway? To decorate your house? If it is for educational purposes, then I don't mind paintings of historical scenes where Guru ji isn't the main focus. What education can you receive, just by looking at a portrait?

Fantastic news!!! I wish the best of luck to my new Sikh brothers.

incorrect a dastaar tied correctly shouldnt really be coming off your head easily patka i think is fine if your going gym or footy but otherwise should be a dastarr

No they aren't. They're evil for not being born as Sikhs. I expected better from you, Jonny Ji. It was only Lady Gaga in a list of commercially and morally bankrupt individuals that you found lolworthy? :biggrin2: Although Rick Astley is mostly harmless.

I know a guy who ties his joora at the back and wears a bandana... He looks like a pirate, or a ninja turtle.

Low self-esteem

There are two issues and some are desperately linking them each other and creating a whole big issue which is certainly not worth of discussing. But sometime such issues should be discussed with more maturity. It is not uncommon that people are now starting to question the concept of having guru sahib jees picture and without sense of maturity they started calling them names etc. Why some are against some who wants to have pictures of guru sahib jee in their home? How many people do you personally know who have pictures at home and do idol worship? Do you really think that the ratio of idol photo worship folks are going thru the roof? How about those memorial places build inside darbar sahib complex? One may grew up in different culture but that does not and should not give them authority to judge other culture folks.. This picture issue is sheer propaganda of missionaries communist cult.

Respect should be shown and satkaar, but not pooja. It should be preserved as historical pieces and should not be disrespected by putting on the floor and what not, but worship only Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

Thank you for taking some time out to forward the contribution. I appreciate you responding promptly. I personally found this one quite interesting since Kabir ji brings in a semi-dialogue (like sidh-ghosht), but he also highlights his love for satguru which is much more than for his own mother in a way !! He has many shabads that are anti-ritual or advise and teach against empty practices...etc.. but they always carry a lot of strength with the way he has little riddles and metaphors. Just looking at the begiining of this (Ang 856) ਨਿਤ ਉਠਿ ਕੋਰੀ ਗਾਗਰਿ ਆਨੈ ਲੀਪਤ ਜੀਉ ਗਇਓ ॥ Niṯ uṯẖ korī gāgar ānai līpaṯ jī▫o ga▫i▫o. Every day, he rises early, and brings a fresh clay pot; he passes his life embellishing and glazing it. ਤਾਨਾ ਬਾਨਾ ਕਛੂ ਨ ਸੂਝੈ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਰਸਿ ਲਪਟਿਓ ॥੧॥ Ŧānā bānā kacẖẖū na sūjẖai har har ras lapti▫o. ||1|| He does not think at all of worldly weaving; he is absorbed in the subtle essence of the Lord, Har, Har. ||1|| The beginning of this shabad is quite interesting and the question of pots arises as I mentioned earlier! Prof Sahib Singh Ji posed a few questions.... Is Kabir Ji really THAT RICH..that he can afford to buy a fresh NEW pot and spend his entire day embellishing it, polishing it.and then only to DISCARD IT the very next morning for a BRAND NEW one ?? Do they have that kind of disposable income ? If they don’t then why does his mother not ask him to stop wasting money on pots so that they can have save a little since the income from weaving is not being helped by Kabir. ?? It did become a little puzzling for me at first but then I started thinking about what the ‘surface’ of ths shabad is outlining.- It’s not telling us to go against our parent’s wishes and it’s not about telling us to earn the bucks that we are supposed to be earning honestly either. I think the bigger picture on the surface highlights the love of his mother for maya or the world illusion and for Kabir ji’s love for ‘inward attainment’ and the Lord and his name ‘Hari’ I remembered another shabad, I honestly cannot recall which- But it used the 'gaggar'or pot as a metaphor for the body and the water it contained represented the mind !! The beginning of this shabad may also be referring to the body and not literally a gaggar.!!! We humans under the influence of ego, endearment, lust, anger..etc... act to serve our own bodies or gaggar. This is like the embellishing and decorating in the gaggar sense, because just the outer vessel is influenced and not the water inside...... (gets real deep !!) Interestingly on the same Ang 856 and further down in the next shabad, Kabir ji mentions ਅਮਰ ਜਾਨਿ ਸੰਚੀ ਇਹ ਕਾਇਆ ਇਹ ਮਿਥਿਆ ਕਾਚੀ ਗਗਰੀ ॥ Amar jān sancẖī ih kā▫i▫ā ih mithi▫ā kācẖī gagrī. Believing this body to be immortal, I pampered it, but it is a fragile and perishable vessel. (like th gaggar pot!) Here we can clearly see that the vessel is the body/gaggar ! With this in mind, the previous tuk is talking about- getting up early, bathing or washing and then coming out fresh with a new clean body/vessel......from what I personally gather, and the message becomes a little clearer when you think a little harder ! I appreciate your mention of the saints and this would also hold strong. But having some ambigous element that doesn't divert from the core message makes it even more fascinating for me ! Don't get me wrong, we can't be disagreeing with Sant ji !! But we know that sometimes their interpretations are kept on the 'Core' of the message and this stops sangat drifting and paying attention to metaphors that fall a little outside of this core. What do you think ?? . ਤਾਨਾ ਬਾਨਾ ਕਛੂ ਨ ਸੂਝੈ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਰਸਿ ਲਪਟਿਓ ॥੧॥ He (Kabir) does not do think about ਤਾਨਾ ਬਾਨਾ weaving and is completely absorbed in Hari. ਹਮਾਰੇ ਕੁਲ ਕਉਨੇ ਰਾਮੁ ਕਹਿਓ ॥ Hamāre kul ka▫une rām kahi▫o. Who in our family has ever chanted the Name of the Lord? ਜਬ ਕੀ ਮਾਲਾ ਲਈ ਨਿਪੂਤੇ ਤਬ ਤੇ ਸੁਖੁ ਨ ਭਇਓ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ Jab kī mālā la▫ī nipūṯe ṯab ṯe sukẖ na bẖa▫i▫o. ||1|| rahā▫o. Ever since this worthless son of mine began chanting with his mala, we have had no peace at all! ||1||Pause|| ਸੁਨਹੁ ਜਿਠਾਨੀ ਸੁਨਹੁ ਦਿਰਾਨੀ ਅਚਰਜੁ ਏਕੁ ਭਇਓ ॥ Sunhu jiṯẖānī sunhu ḏirānī acẖraj ek bẖa▫i▫o. Listen, O my sisters-in-law, a wondrous thing has happened! ਸਾਤ ਸੂਤ ਇਨਿ ਮੁਡੀਂਏ ਖੋਏ ਇਹੁ ਮੁਡੀਆ ਕਿਉ ਨ ਮੁਇਓ ॥੨॥ Sāṯ sūṯ in mudīʼne kẖo▫e ih mudī▫ā ki▫o na mu▫i▫o. ||2|| This boy has ruined our weaving business. Why didn't he simply die? ||2|| Looking again, and just to simplify a little- ਹਮਾਰੇ ਕੁਲ ਕਉਨੇ ਰਾਮੁ ਕਹਿਓ ॥ ਜਬ ਕੀ ਮਾਲਾ ਲਈ ਨਿਪੂਤੇ ਤਬ ਤੇ ਸੁਖੁ ਨ ਭਇਓ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ Who has ever said "Ram" in this house and in our ancestors? Ever since he picked up the mala, there is no peace to be found ਸੁਨਹੁ ਜਿਠਾਨੀ ਸੁਨਹੁ ਦਿਰਾਨੀ ਅਚਰਜੁ ਏਕੁ ਭਇਓ ॥ ਸਾਤ ਸੂਤ ਇਨਿ ਮੁਡੀਂਏ ਖੋਏ ਇਹੁ ਮੁਡੀਆ ਕਿਉ ਨ ਮੁਇਓ ॥੨॥ Listen sister-in-laws to another extraordinary thing He has also left and ruined the weaving business in the process, why didn't he just die? This is telling us firstly that Kabir ji’s mother is not enlightened and neither is she religious. She is very upset that her son is religious and focused on the inward spiritual rather than the outward worldly. She wants him to focus on his weaving job but Kabir is the ਨਿਪੂਤ, worthless son, who is focused completely on God and His bhagati. His weaving business is suffering for that, and his mother is losing patience with him day by day. "Ever since, he has picked up a mala (and began bhagati), I can find no peace." she says. ਸਰਬ ਸੁਖਾ ਕਾ ਏਕੁ ਹਰਿ ਸੁਆਮੀ ਸੋ ਗੁਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਦਇਓ ॥ Sarab sukẖā kā ek har su▫āmī so gur nām da▫i▫o. O mother, the One Lord, the Lord and Master, is the source of all peace. The Guru has blessed me with His Name. ਸੰਤ ਪ੍ਰਹਲਾਦ ਕੀ ਪੈਜ ਜਿਨਿ ਰਾਖੀ ਹਰਨਾਖਸੁ ਨਖ ਬਿਦਰਿਓ ॥੩॥ Sanṯ parahlāḏ kī paij jin rākẖī harnākẖas nakẖ biḏri▫o. ||3|| He preserved the honor of Prahlaad, and destroyed Harnaakhash with his nails. ||3|| ਘਰ ਕੇ ਦੇਵ ਪਿਤਰ ਕੀ ਛੋਡੀ ਗੁਰ ਕੋ ਸਬਦੁ ਲਇਓ ॥ Gẖar ke ḏev piṯar kī cẖẖodī gur ko sabaḏ la▫i▫o. I have renounced the gods and ancestors of my house, for the Word of the Guru's Shabad. ਕਹਤ ਕਬੀਰੁ ਸਗਲ ਪਾਪ ਖੰਡਨੁ ਸੰਤਹ ਲੈ ਉਧਰਿਓ ॥੪॥੪॥ Kahaṯ Kabīr sagal pāp kẖandan sanṯėh lai uḏẖāri▫o. ||4||4|| Says Kabeer, God is the Destroyer of all sins; He is the Saving Grace of His Saints. ||4||4|| Now kabir comes in and says:-(my own little clarfication with additions..etc..) ਸਰਬ ਸੁਖਾ ਕਾ ਏਕੁ ਹਰਿ ਸੁਆਮੀ ਸੋ ਗੁਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਦਇਓ ॥ The master of all peace is Hari (mother you are looking for peace elsewhere when it can only be found in Hari), whose name has been given to me by my guru (Guru Ramanand or Lord's grace) , ਸੰਤ ਪ੍ਰਹਲਾਦ ਕੀ ਪੈਜ ਜਿਨਿ ਰਾਖੀ ਹਰਨਾਖਸੁ ਨਖ ਬਿਦਰਿਓ ॥੩॥ (Name of) the one who preserved the honour of sant Prehlaad, and killed Harnaksh with his claws. ਘਰ ਕੇ ਦੇਵ ਪਿਤਰ ਕੀ ਛੋਡੀ ਗੁਰ ਕੋ ਸਬਦੁ ਲਇਓ ॥ ਕਹਤ ਕਬੀਰੁ ਸਗਲ ਪਾਪ ਖੰਡਨੁ ਸੰਤਹ ਲੈ ਉਧਰਿਓ ॥੪॥੪ I have left the god and ancestors of my house, and I have taken the word of my guru. Kabir says that He is the destroyer our sins, and as saints saves us (liberates us). The deep core message of the whole shabad is what Only five ji hinted on earlier.- It's the analogy with having love for your parent vs The Lord. In Prahlaad story, it's more about having belief and faith for the powerful Lord Vs Having faith in your poweful King father or God Vs The King's EGO. In this shabad it's about having love for -Naam jap and the Lord Vs Having love for your mother's love of maya attachments OR Love for Inward Lord Vs Love for Maya.. All errors and interpretations beside from srigranth.org are mine and I stand corrected.

sayapa ta ta v pai jana if kaurs start huggin singhs, since its hug a singh week or something anybody cud give any singh a hug

I think they should present it to Sri Akal Takht Sahib and then the calendar can be introduced to the whole Khalsa Panth.

I think we only need to follow calendar approved from Sri akal takht sahib regardless of our affiliations with any jathabandi. This issue may seem harmless to many but not following same event dates is leading us into the social disintegration of our kaum (Sikh community). If we are saying that we stand with Sri akal takht sahib then we really should practice that in reality. We should not nit-pick on several issues with Sri akal takht sahib; either we are 100% with takht sahib or we are not. Even if jathabandi had their own maryada going on for 100's of years then they should keep it in internally but in respect with Sri takht sahib.

A Jeev-Atma needs a true Guru (SatGuru) to reach the final destination (jot mein jot). Baba Nand Singh ji could see that the landlord had a Murshad/Guru who was a true one and therefore asked him to stick with them. All the religions lead to the same destination but the difference lies in the approach. Sikhi is a Shabd Surat Marg which is the easiest one of all. Its like reaching at the top of a Lamp post to which a bird can reach with ease and an ant has to make many struggles when they are both starting from the same point.

Chuck Norris. You might ask "why?" :respect: :omgomg:

So nice. Someone who is most probably of Sikh faith finds a Sikh forum and asks for help. History teaches us that Sikhs helped all, nowadays it's like lets just ridicule the person who reaches out for help as they have not lived up to the standard of what a Sikh is supposed to be. I dobut many of the posters on here are the rel mccoy, every one has faults. Have compassion and instead of slating someone with the obvious give some advise that may actually help them. Like i've said many times before many may think they are good Sikhs but are they good humans? Does true sikhi not prescribe to the logic that you need to be a good human first then only you can be a good Sikh? Cause what is the point of doing all the formallities if your full of hatred or look down on others for not being to a standard you think is acceptable. OP, alcholics have an addiction which is not easy to overcome. Like all addictions its not as easy as saying 'if you love me don't ever do it again'. The person may have every intention of keeping promises they make in not indulging into their addiction but it is SO HARD to repress those feelings and behaviours. They will do anything to satisfy the urge for their addiction, when they are feeling withdrawl symptoms. They need to see a psychologists and get to the root cause and address the issues. It is a long journey which with support can be overcome. With the majority of addicts it is there loved ones that suffer the most. Find help groups and in UK there are many addction centres that can help, be it for drink or drugs or gamballing. on my phone so can't type much sorry.

Anyone who went against popular opinion of their time, and dedicated their life to uncovering the truth (or an aspect of the truth).

I don't mind Harbhajan Singh critizing, but if Monty Panesar / Suneet Singh Tuli or some other Pooran Sikh with turban & full beard pass on the same message, will look more genuine & authentic.

It is not about whether you agree with the person's opinion. The point here is that Harbhajan Singh started the judgemental remarks. Another came and called him out on it. Instead of agree that yes Harbhajan Singh is also judging others. You choose to pick on the member for doing the same thing Harbhajan Singh did. You are having a hard time looking at this from a clear objective point of view. The impact is not what you referred to as judgemental. The remark its self is what you called judgemental without thinking that Harbhajan Singh started it. The reason why I am pushing this is because many people don't understand that everyone makes judgemental calls and only Satguru can say I made an absolute statement. Everything else is judgemental. Obviously Harbhajan Singh is not making an absolute remark here. Its his judgement and nothing more. When the law is set, it also is based on judgemental statements or views a certain group of people hold and they choose to govern that part of the world in their own way. You would not walk into a traffic hearing and tell the judge, you're being judgemental........you got this holier than thou attitude. I don't know which culture you are referring too, but I hopes its Khalsa because Punjabi culture has been around long before Satguru came in the form of Nanak. Punjabi culture does not equal Sikhi or Khalsa and neither does 3H0 mix christain beliefs with western american beliefs equal to be Sikhi. What Harbhajan Singh does surely effect the Khalsa culture. Somebody could come along and say he's a Khalsa and then somebody can come along and say hes a punjabi Khalsa. The impact is there as everything in this world makes an impact on something else. Harbhajan Singh does make good remarks, but then again he is judging others. Do you see the difference now? Overall the point here is, that you need to learn that I can go on every post of your's and write up a counter arguement where you will be rightfully accused of judging another. Stop being the judging police with a Punjab police uniform on. :biggrin2:

Well then here is something which killed me 2 days ago.....

In gore countries I wanna hug Awwwwwww ***HUGS*** In Punjab Mai tere te haggna ***bannnggg...bannngggg...banngggg*** ***more banngggg...bannnggg....banngggg***

On a serious note, the people who started this seem desperate to get hugs. If you want a hug go to Punjab and find some on the road. (hug means poo) lol

No one has hugged me today.

Dear Bhenji, All of us (the sikhs you mention) are sikhs; as in we're all learners on a spiritual path. Due to human nature, we're bound to have different views and perspectives. Hence, the differences. To be fairly honest, the Kesri Lehar protests around the world that were held to stop Bhai Rajoana Ji's hanging was a little view of how our unity despite differences is. Wasn't that amazing? Bhenji, don't worry The Khalsa panth has been initiated by the orders of the Akaal Purakh Almighty Himself! He'll take care of all of us

Nicest post I've read in a while. Thanks Mehtab veer! :biggrin2: Let's now hope that those ignorant people of Sikh background who usually try and insult and demean such people can restrain their nonsense and make these new members of the panth feel welcome and valued.

Congratulations to those Singhs who have risked their own livelihoods to avenge this rape. One wonders, had they not done what they did, would we have ever known about this heinous crime? Would these pakistani muslims have been arrested, let alone charged? Afterall, it was only last week that Nihal was discussing this and the general theme that emerged from that discussion (the majority of the callers were pakistani muslim) was "it's simply a rumour" and "Sikh men have a habit of violence" as well as "when will Sikh men accept that their women prefer us over them?". Within 7 days, 5 pakistani men arrested and charged with one 15 yr old pending further enquiries. 21 sexual offences. Not bad considering only last week it "was only a rumour". Yes, I agree this is the tip of the ice berg. Yes, many more crimes have been committed against Sikh women from pakistani muslims. Yes, when questioned on discussion programmes by commentators like Nihal, we the Sikh community fail to convey how/where/why this occurs. That doesn't mean it doesn't occur! This should serve as a catalyst to other Sikh women to also come forward. It is on record that some Imam's have been commiting paedophiliac and sexual acts towards children in mosques for three decades in the Lancashire, Greater Manchester, West Yorkshire and West and East Midlands regions. It is on record that younger pakistani muslim men have been grooming non-pakistani, non-muslim women in the north of England (and currently a trial is ongoing in Oxfordshire) for several years also. Pakistani muslims have an inherent sick disorder of sexual repression and a disproportionate and alarming practice of sexual exploitation concerning vulnerable young women outside of their community.

Mohan Singh done all the business of lar-eya 15 years ago kicking down doors, were girls were being kept for prostitution abuse and drugs.He is now working with professionals like lawyers, social workers, Police, and DR's, this is what you have called for. You have once again show us to be our own worst enermy saying stuff like "AKJ" are doing all the work, what knob in this situiation does that ??? Grooming is far too serious. and by the way it werent rumours Paki men charged this morning, again you have got it wrong !!! http://www.thisisleicestershire.co.uk/men-charged-sexual-offences-girl-16/story-17929409-detail/story.html

not really sure what the point of your post is if its to highlight the fact that some singhs choose kuriya without facial hair well thats already known, just as the fact the majority of sikh kuriya prefer clean shaven however your posts come across as personal rants

I think the truth lies somewhere in between what WLS and HSD2 wrote. In a sense the people who came over in the 50s and 60s were probably more greedy if that's the right word to better themselves when the situation in Punjab was much better than it is now. Agriculture was on the up, land holdings hadn't become uneconomic and government jobs including the army were still there to be had. Compare this with now, no hope of a government job even in the police or the army for Jats. Land holdings have been made uneconomic due to high rate of mamla or theka. HSD2 is right about the UK. It's pretty much a lost cause especially since the Muslims are now close to 5% of the population. Most of Europe has gone the same way, the UK's hope is that a significant number of white Eastern Europeans settle here and as well as paying taxes to fund the benefits of the chavs /Paks and the pensions of the oldies their high birth rate will also negate the rise in the number of Muslims. Being nearly 5% the Muslims will now really start to push their agenda in earnest with the threat that if the country doesn't accept their shyt then there's plenty of Muslim youth that may become radicalised if they don't see the majority bending to the will of the minority. They've drained the country's treasury dry like no other people have and Sikhs will probably need to consider whether they still want to be contributing their hand earned money to a country that seems to think that paying for Islamic road shows and bogus exhibitions about the 'contribution' of Islam to the world is a country worth staying in. Probably the only option left for the Sikhs who have the skills and means is emigration to US/Canada or Australia/NZ. This what most of the ambitious goray are doing.

Sikh community leader Hans Singh dies aged 87Original Link http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-20881472 Hans Singh campaigned for the rights of Scottish Sikhs. Scottish Sikh community leader Hans Singh has died at the age of 87. Mr Singh, from Glasgow, was a major force behind the opening of the country's first Sikh temple. He also successfully campaigned for Sikhs to be exempt from having to wear motorcycle helmets while they were wearing a turban. Mr Singh, who is survived by his wife Parsin Kaur and three of their four children, died peacefully on Christmas Day. A mathematics graduate from the Punjab University Lahore, he and his wife settled in Glasgow in 1948 after emigrating from Armritsar in India. He was a prominent figure within the Sikh community, and was secretary of the Guru Granth Sahib Gurdwara in Nithsdale Road for 15 years. During that time Mr Singh campaigned on issues including the right to raise the Sikh flag, the Nishan Sahib, outside temples. In 1962, he represented Glasgow Sikhs at a meeting with Indian Prime Minister Nehru during his visit to Scotland. In the 1960s and 70s, he was involved in the campaign against a ban on wearing turbans at work and while riding motorbikes. As a result, legislation was introduced which means that Sikhs who wear turbans do not need to wear crash helmets when they ride motorbikes or scooters. His son Ranbir said his father was "much loved" had been "very proud" to serve his community.