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ਨਾਮਧਾਰੀ ਠਾਕੁਰ ਦਲੀਪ ਸਿੰਘ ਨਿਹੰਗ ਸਿੰਘਾਂ ਦੇ ਜੱਥੇਦਾਰ ਸਰਦਾਰ ਮੇਜਰ ਸਿੰਘ ਜੀ ਨਾਲ ਨੇ ਸਹਿਮਤ । VID-20220929-WA0000.mp4

You really are full of nonsense. The reason the Gujaratis came to Britain after being expelled from Africa was because they had British citizenship, no other reason. Many of them had to live in detention camps when they arrived! They did not uplift the image of Indians by selling saris and owning corner shops, something that Punjabis were doing where they were a majority anyway.

Because Naamdharis are absolute masters at kirtan. Simple. On the topic of Akal Takht, it doesn't really hold the same authority as it did in the past. Just look at the people running it and you'll get what I mean. Most the panth, outside of stuff like Tankhaya, don't care about anything they have to say.

The whole thing was orchestrated using Leicestershire police to back the rioters. This was instigated due to the current actions against PFI and WAFQ that finance their Ghazwe e Hind ideology. The reality is that India is on the rise and is receiving huge investments from the international community when both US and Europe is sinking. This can't be ignored when evaluating the impact on the UK economy of such riots. Also a few articles published showing the complicity of Leics. Police that sparked the riots based on false propaganda was more than enough for everyone to back down. It's nothing to do with Gujjus as such except they were observed to be excellent entrepreneurs by the British as well as being peaceful hence transported in large numbers to Africa from where the majority come from after being expelled. It is they that uplifted the image of Indians in the UK, who were mainly from the Punjab and overwhelmingly working class as they started businesses from next to nothing. Nothing to do with majority minority.

ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ। ਸਿੱਖ ਕੌਣ ਹੈ ? ਕਿਹੜੇ ਸ਼ਰਧਾਲੂਆਂ ਨੂੰ ਮਿਲਾ ਕੇ; "ਸਿੱਖ ਪੰਥ" ਬਣਦਾ ਹੈ ? ਠਾਕੁਰ ਦਲੀਪ ਸਿੰਘ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੂ ਨਾਨਕ ਦੇਵ ਜੀ ਉੱਤੇ ਸ਼ਰਧਾ ਰੱਖਣ ਵਾਲਾ ਹਰ ਪ੍ਰਾਣੀ "ਸਿੱਖ" ਹੈ, ਕਿਉਂਕਿ "ਸਿੱਖੀ" ਸ਼ਰਧਾ ਨਾਲ ਹੈ ; ਮੇਰੇ ਪ੍ਰਭਿ ਸਰਧਾ ਭਗਤਿ ਮਨਿ ਭਾਵੈ (ਮ:1) । ਸਿਰਫ ਮਨੁੱਖ ਹੀ ਨਹੀਂ, ਹਰ ਪ੍ਰਾਣੀ "ਸਿੱਖ"(ਸ਼ਿਸ਼ /ਮੁਰੀਦ) ਹੈ। ਜਿਸ ਸੱਪ ਨੇ ਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ ਉੱਤੇ ਛਾਂ ਕੀਤੀ ਸੀ, ਉਹ ਵੀ "ਸਿੱਖ" ਸੀ। ਸਾਰੇ ਗੁਰੂ ਨਾਨਕ ਨਾਮ ਲੇਵਾ (ਨਾਨਕ ਪੰਥੀਆਂ) ਨੂੰ ਮਿਲਾ ਕੇ ਹੀ ਸਮੁੱਚਾ ਸਿੱਖ ਪੰਥ ਬਣਦਾ ਹੈ। ਸਿੱਖ ਪੰਥ: ਸਿਰਫ "ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤਧਾਰੀ ਖਾਲਸੇ" ਹੀ ਨਹੀਂ; ਜਦ ਕਿ "ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤਧਾਰੀ ਖਾਲਸੇ" (ਖਾਲਸਾ ਪੰਥ) ਤਾਂ ਸਮੁੱਚੇ ਸਿੱਖ ਪੰਥ ਦਾ ਇੱਕ ਸ੍ਰੇਸ਼ਟ ਅੰਗ ਹਨ। ਭਾਈ ਘਨਈਆ, ਭਾਈ ਨੰਦਲਾਲ, ਦੀਵਾਨ ਟੋਡਰਮੱਲ ਆਦਿ ਸਿੱਖ; ਦਸਵੇਂ ਪਾਤਸ਼ਾਹ ਜੀ ਦੇ ਸਮੇਂ ਵੀ "ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤਧਾਰੀ"ਨਹੀਂ ਸਨ: ਪਰ ਉਹ ਵੀ ਮਹਾਨ ਸਿੱਖ ਸਨ। ਅੱਜ ਵੀ ਜੋ ਹਿੰਦੂ, ਮੁਸਲਮਾਨ, ਜੈਨ, ਬੁੱਧ ਆਦਿ ਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ ਉੱਤੇ ਸ਼ਰਧਾ ਰੱਖਦੇ ਹਨ, ਉਹ ਸਾਰੇ ਹੀ "ਨਾਨਕ ਪੰਥੀ" ਹਨ ਅਤੇ "ਸਿੱਖ" (ਸ਼ਿਸ਼ /ਮੁਰੀਦ) ਹਨ। ਕਿਉਂਕਿ, ਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ ਨੇ ਕੋਈ ਵੀ ਵੱਖਰਾ ਪੰਥ ਕਦੇ ਵੀ ਨਹੀਂ ਬਣਾਇਆ ਅਤੇ ਨਾ ਹੀ ਉਹਨਾਂ ਨੇ ਇਹ ਬਚਨ ਕੀਤਾ: "ਮੈਂ ਇਹ ਵੱਖਰਾ ਨਵਾਂ ਪੰਥ ਬਣਾ ਰਿਹਾ ਹਾਂ, ਇਸਦਾ ਨਾਮ "ਸਿੱਖ"(ਉ ) ਹੋਵੇਗਾ। ਜੇਕਰ ਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ ਨੇ ਆਪਣਾ ਨਵਾਂ ਵੱਖਰਾ ਪੰਥ ਬਣਾ ਕੇ ਉਸ ਨੂੰ "ਸਿੱਖ" ਨਾਮ ਦਿੱਤਾ ਹੁੰਦਾ ਤਾਂ ਮੁਸਲਮਾਨਾਂ ਦੇ ਵੱਡੇ-ਵੱਡੇ ਪੀਰ: ਜਿਵੇਂ ਸਾਂਈ ਮੀਆਂ ਮੀਰ, ਪੀਰ ਬੁੱਧੂ ਸ਼ਾਹ ਆਦਿ; ਉਹ ਕਦੇ ਵੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ ਦੇ ਸ਼ਰਧਾਲੂ ਨਾ ਬਣਦੇ। ਜੇਕਰ ਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ ਨੇ ਵੱਖਰਾ ਪੰਥ ਬਣਾਇਆ ਹੁੰਦਾ, ਤਾਂ 'ਪੀਰ ਭੀਖਣ ਸ਼ਾਹ' ਦੋ ਕੁੱਜੀਆਂ ਦੀ ਥਾਂ, ਤਿੰਨ ਕੁੱਜੀਆਂ ਲੈ ਕੇ ਆਉਂਦਾ। ਪਰ, ਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ ਨੇ ਆਪਣਾ ਵੱਖਰਾਪਣ: ਵੱਖਰਾ ਧਰਮ, ਵੱਖਰਾ ਪੰਥ ਕਦੇ ਬਣਾਇਆ ਹੀ ਨਹੀਂ। ਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ ਨੇ ਕਰਾਮਾਤਾਂ ਵਿਖਾਈਆਂ ਅਤੇ ਸਾਂਝਾ ਸ਼ੁਭ ਉਪਦੇਸ਼ ਦਿੱਤਾ, ਤਾਂ ਹੀ:ਲਾਮੇ, ਹਿੰਦੂ, ਮੁਸਲਮਾਨ, ਬੋਧੀ ਆਦਿ ਸਾਰੇ ਹੀ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੂ ਨਾਨਕ ਦੇਵ ਜੀ ਦੇ ਸ਼ਰਧਾਲੂ ਸੇਵਕ ਬਣੇ। ਇਸ ਲਈ ਹਰ 'ਗੁਰੂ ਨਾਨਕ ਨਾਮ ਲੇਵਾ ਸ਼ਰਧਾਲੂ' "ਸਿੱਖ" ਹੈ। ਜੋ ਵੀ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੂ ਨਾਨਕ ਦੇਵ ਜੀ ਨੂੰ ਮੰਨਦਾ/ਸ਼ਰਧਾ ਰੱਖਦਾ ਹੈ ਅਤੇ ਉਹਨਾਂ ਦੇ ਗੱਦੀ-ਨਸ਼ੀਨ ਗੁਰੂ ਸਾਹਿਬਾਨਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਮੰਨਦਾ ਹੈ: ਭਾਵੇਂ ਉਹ ਇੱਕ ਨੂੰ ਮੰਨੇ ਜਾਂ ਬਹੁਤਿਆਂ ਨੂੰ ਮੰਨੇ; ਉਹ ਮਨੁੱਖ ਆਪਣੇ ਉਸੇ ਵਿਸ਼ਵਾਸ ਅਤੇ ਸ਼ਰਧਾ ਸਮੇਤ ਹੀ ਸਿੱਖ/ਸ਼ਿਸ਼ /ਮੁਰੀਦ ਹੈ। ਜਿਵੇਂ ਮੁਸਲਮਾਨ, ਧੀਰਮੱਲੀਏ, ਰਾਮਰਾਈਏ, ਸਹਿਜਧਾਰੀ, ਨਾਮਧਾਰੀ ਆਦਿ। "ਗੁਰੂ ਨਾਨਕ ਪੰਥੀਆਂ" ਨੂੰ, ਉਹ ਜਿਸ ਵਿਸਵਾਸ਼ ਵਿਚ ਵੀ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੂ ਨਾਨਕ ਦੇਵ ਜੀ ਅਤੇ ਉਹਨਾਂ ਦੇ ਜਿੰਨੇ ਵੀ ਗੱਦੀ ਨਸ਼ੀਨਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਮੰਨਦੇ ਹਨ; ਉਹਨਾਂ ਸ਼ਰਧਾਲੂਆਂ ਨੂੰ, ਓਸੇ ਰੂਪ ਵਿਚ "ਨਾਨਕ ਪੰਥੀ" ਹੋਣ ਕਰਕੇ "ਸਿੱਖ" ਪ੍ਰਵਾਨ ਕਰਨਾ ਯੋਗ ਹੈ। ਜਿਵੇਂ ਕਿ ਉਦਾਸੀ: ਸਤਿਗੁਰੂ ਨਾਨਕ ਦੇਵ ਜੀ ਤੋਂ ਉਪਰੰਤ ਬਾਬਾ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਚੰਦ ਜੀ ਨੂੰ, ਧੀਰਮੱਲੀਏ: ਬਾਬਾ ਧੀਰਮੱਲ ਜੀ ਨੂੰ, ਰਾਮਰਾਈਏ: ਬਾਬਾ ਰਾਮਰਾਇ ਜੀ ਨੂੰ ਅਤੇ ਨਾਮਧਾਰੀਏ: ਸਤਿਗੁਰੂ ਰਾਮ ਸਿੰਘ ਜੀ ਨੂੰ ਮੰਨਦੇ ਹਨ। ਇਸੇ ਤਰ੍ਹਾਂ ਬਾਕੀ ਸੰਪਰਦਾਵਾਂ ਦੇ ਵੀ ਆਪੋ ਆਪਣੇ ਵਿਸ਼ਵਾਸ ਹਨ. ਉਹਨਾਂ ਦੇ ਵਿਸ਼ਵਾਸਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਓਸੇ ਤਰ੍ਹਾਂ ਹੀ ਪ੍ਰਵਾਨ ਕਰ ਲੈਣਾ ਚਾਹੀਦਾ ਹੈ ਅਤੇ ਕਿਸੇ ਵੀ ਸੰਪਰਦਾ ਨੂੰ ਆਪਣੇ ਵਿਸ਼ਵਾਸ, ਦੂਸਰੀ ਸੰਪਰਦਾ ਉੱਤੇ ਠੋਸਣੇ ਨਹੀਂ ਚਾਹੀਦੇ। ਜੇਕਰ ਅਸੀਂ ਇਸ ਉੱਤਮ ਅਤੇ ਵਿਸ਼ਾਲ ਸੋਚ ਨੂੰ ਅਪਣਾ ਲਈਏ, ਤਾਂ ਸਾਰੇ ਗੁਰੂ ਨਾਨਕ ਪੰਥੀਆਂ ਨੂੰ ਮਿਲਾ ਕੇ ਸਿੱਖ ਪੰਥ ਦੀ ਗਿਣਤੀ 50 ਕਰੋੜ ਤੋਂ ਵੱਧ ਹੋ ਜਾਵੇਗੀ। (ਕਿਉਂਕਿ, ਬਹੁਤ ਸਾਰੇ ਹਿੰਦੂ ਆਖੇ ਜਾਂਦੇ ਵੀਰ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੂ ਨਾਨਕ ਦੇਵ ਜੀ ਨੂੰ ਮੰਨਦੇ ਹਨ।) ਸਤਿਗੁਰੂ ਨਾਨਕ ਦੇਵ ਜੀ ਦੀ ਰੰਗ ਬਿਰੰਗੀ ਫੁਲਵਾੜੀ ਦੇ ਰੰਗ ਬਿਰੰਗੇ ਫੁੱਲ; ਕਈ ਸੰਪਰਦਾਵਾਂ ਦੇ ਰੂਪ ਵਿਚ ਹਨ। ਕੁਝ "ਗੁਰੂ ਨਾਨਕ ਨਾਮ ਲੇਵਾ ਸੰਪਰਦਾਵਾਂ" ਦੇ ਨਾਮ ਹੇਠ ਲਿਖੇ ਹਨ, ਪਰ ਸਾਰੇ ਨਹੀਂ ਮਿਲੇ: 1) ਉਦਾਸੀ. 2) ਸਿੰਧੀ. 3) ਧੀਰਮੱਲੀਏ. 4) ਰਾਮਰਾਈਏ. 5) ਸਤਿ ਕਰਤਾਰੀਏ. 6) ਹਿੰਦਲੀਏ. 7) ਹੀਰਾ ਦਾਸੀਏ. 8 ਨਾਮਧਾਰੀ. 9) ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰੀ. 10) ਨਿਹੰਗ. 11) ਬੰਦਈ. 12) ਨਿਰਮਲੇ. 13) ਸੇਵਾ ਪੰਥੀ. 14) ਗਹਿਰ ਗੰਭੀਰੀਏ. 15) ਨੀਲਧਾਰੀ. 16) ਅਕਾਲੀ. 17) ਭਗਤਪੰਥੀ. 18)ਸਿਕਲੀਗਰ. 19) ਸਤਿਨਾਮੀ. 20) ਜੌਹਰੀ. 21) ਅਫਗਾਨੀ. 22) ਮਰਦਾਨੇ ਕੇ. 23) ਅਸਾਮੀ. 24) ਲਾਮੇ. 25) ਵਣਜਾਰੇ. 26)ਅਗਰਹਾਰੀ. 27) ਸਹਿਜਧਾਰੀ, ਆਦਿ। ਵਿਸ਼ੇਸ਼ : ਇਹਨਾਂ ਸੰਪਰਦਾਵਾਂ ਦੇ ਵਿਸ਼ਵਾਸ, ਬਾਹਰਲੇ ਸਰੂਪ ਅਤੇ ਪ੍ਰੰਪਰਾਵਾਂ ਆਪੋ-ਆਪਣੀਆਂ, ਵੱਖੋ-ਵੱਖ ਹਨ। ਉਸ ਵਖਰੇਵੇਂ ਕਾਰਣ ਹੀ, ਸਤਿਗੁਰੂ ਨਾਨਕ ਦੇਵ ਜੀ ਦੀ ਫੁਲਵਾੜੀ ਰੰਗ-ਬਿਰੰਗੀ ਹੈ। ਉਸ ਰੰਗ-ਬਿਰੰਗੀ ਫੁਲਵਾੜੀ ਨੂੰ, ਰੰਗ ਬਿਰੰਗੀ ਹੀ ਰੱਖਣ ਦੀ ਲੋੜ ਹੈ। (ਉ) ਸੰਸਕ੍ਰਿਤ ਦੇ "ਸ਼ਿਸ਼੍ਯ" ਸ਼ਬਦ ਤੋਂ ਪੰਜਾਬੀ ਦਾ ਸ਼ਬਦ "ਸਿੱਖ" ਬਣਿਆ ਹੈ। ਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ ਦੇ ਸ਼ਿਸ਼ /ਸਿੱਖ ਹੋਣ ਕਰਕੇ ਸਾਡਾ ਸਿੱਖ ਨਾਮ ਪ੍ਰਚੱਲਿਤ ਹੋ ਗਿਆ ਹੈ। ਜੋ ਕਿ ਸਹੀ ਹੈ, ਇਸ ਨਾਮ ਨੂੰ ਵਰਤਣਾ ਯੋਗ ਹੈ। ਅੱਜ ਸਾਰੇ ਸੰਸਾਰ ਵਿਚ ਸਿੱਖ ਨਾਮ ਵਾਲੇ ਧਰਮ/ਪੰਥ ਦਾ ਬੜਾ ਜਸ ਹੈ। ਨੋਟ : ਸਿੱਖ ਪੰਥ ਦੀ ਚੜ੍ਹਦੀ ਕਲਾ ਚਾਹੁਣ ਵਾਲੇ ਸੱਜਣ, ਆਪਣੇ ਵਿਚਾਰ (ਦਲੀਲ ਸਹਿਤ) ਬੇਝਿਝਕ ਹੋ ਕੇ ਹੇਠ ਲਿਖੇ ਨੰਬਰਾਂ ਅਤੇ ਈਮੇਲ ਰਾਹੀਂ ਭੇਜਣ ਦੀ ਕਿਰਪਾਲਤਾ ਕਰਨ ਜੀ : ਠਾਕੁਰ ਦਲੀਪ ਸਿੰਘ ਸੰਪਰਕ ਨੰਬਰ : ਰਾਜਪਾਲ ਕੌਰ +919023150008, ਰਤਨਦੀਪ ਸਿੰਘ +919650066108 ਈ.ਮੇਲ :- rajpal16773@gmail.com, ratandeeps5@gmail.com . . . . . #thakurdalipsinghjidipehel #thakurdalipsinghji #gurunanaknaamleva #Sikhs #sikhism #sikhpanth #khalsa #khalsapanth #nihangsikhs #NanakPanthi #namdhari #namdharisikhs Canadian Punjabi Post

Nirmalas and Nihang Unknown Nihang Dal Posing Baba Jai Singh Ji

loool Thought he was a apna but Nepali origin.. weirdo

Bhangra is the biggest part of Panjabi culture. I believe part of the connection MUST be to do with all Panjabi singers' video shoots, they are directed in Western Countries (well, mainly Canada). It's the exposure of media yet again. Watch ANY music video you will see Canada or sum other Western Country. The days of shooting in Panjab for video shoot are LONG gone. Parents will encourage their kids so they can be seen on TV/ become famous - all that psychological factor kicks in.

I saw this last year when I was bored during english lmao. I'm not suprised with the amount of illegal immigrants. But the drugs, yeah it's really bad. lmao the lemon baba guy cracked me up for some reason. I don't know what to think about injection.

Were those 15 boys ever found? Mexico is so dangerous. So many drug gangs who kill people.

So many punjabis die in other countries. My mum was herself saying that in the news almost every other day some punjabi student has died. There was even an article recently about students suicide . Very bad condition.

Also heard really bad state of Punjabi immigrants in USA Cali ..homelessness, drugs What a sad state of our kaum ....Large majority don't even care to know

https://www.ndtv.com/indians-abroad/15-punjab-boys-go-missing-while-trying-to-enter-us-illegally-community-leader-2192543

Jatts? I thought the lower caste and poorer ones were converting.

How's it like in the UK when it comes to Sikhs marrying out? Do you have some non Sikhs coming to sikhi, or are 'sikh' the ones converting?

Is this in Canada marriage to Bengali muslim?? tbh, i think if they willing to convert to islam for marriage (as bad as it sounds) then they were not really 'Sikhs' 1st place..at least the kids wont be 'half IsLam half SiKh' lol...i think thats better then half hindu/Sikh...i think thats worse because most likely to be bollywood version of Sikhi they will follow...and the narrative 'Sikhs are Hindus'..i used to believe vice versa not not anymore From what i have seen recent yrs and local Gurdwares, there alot more whites, black, Chinese Asian half's with Punjabi parent that are into Sikhi keep kes, going Sunday Punjabi school etc...some from distance family married goras and they are practicing Sikhs made sure they stuck to their culture, would send them live in Punjab when they were younger and did schooling there...more so then some 'Punjabi Sikh' families who just Sikh by being born into it nothing else..typical punjabi jatts religion

.

Pakistani Panjabi Bhangra dresses aren't too different either but without the crazy colours.

Bhangra seems to be getting popular, I saw a team with some white people and a Pakistani Panjabi girl. That Kurta-Chadara dress is a rural male attire worn in Panjab by ALL communities (old men wear it nowadays). It was easy to wear and make back in the days but it's not colourful like Bhangra dancers make it. Also the accessories they wear on their arms aren't normal.

Posted just now That's right Namdhari said January 1 is the British New Year and celebrating this day on our behalf is a sign of slavery. Quote

Why are these forums so inactive? Why are there only a few new posts every day? Why do most threads flop? With all of the issues that our community faces, I would hope that there would be many lively discussions, and regular, vigorous, intelligent debate. Instead, I find that I only have to visit this place once every few weeks to keep up. Is there some other place with a more lively debate about Sikh issues? Or does the lack of activity in these forums reflect the general sad lack of interest in Sikhi these days? By the way, it doesn't help that whenever a topic actually generates a lively discussion, the moderators find some stupid reason to close the thread and prohibit any further posts. I'm sure this thread will also be closed. It also doesn't help that people who actually are interested in discussion (like West London Singh/Legal Singh/Jagsaw Singh) get banned.

Nicely put. ?

Good thread!

Vague? I've never been vague about it Have a laugh at that if you want, but I'm out of the gene pool now and that means one less Sikh family in the future. When your grandchildren are forbidden from wearing dastars by the government of whatever country they will be living in, I'm sure the monay who haven't had a singh in their family tree for 100 years will help them.

Why do British Sikhs always brag about their blue collar-ness? (Don't get mad, just having a little fun ? )

Nashe and sharab led leaders of last sikh raj away from sikhi. This is the reason we lost khalsa raj. Instead of doing sikhi parchar and history recording they were 2 husy with kaam ,nasha etc. Nasha should be outlawed in khalistan only for medicinal use or atleast in sikh holy cities. There is reports of nihang dals being bhangi/ shaheedi degh adicts. The only point of using it which is inline with sikhi is for medicine but there is much better medicines for that. No point of so called shaheedi degh in sikhi anymore. And sggs instructs against nasha.

Can someone knock some sense into shastar singh if u wanna take drugs go ahead, we tried to persuade you not 2. Stop trynna convince yourself that it is ok to when ur a sikh. There is alcohol and nasha free things of almost everything, there is anaestheics for operations(we dont need opium, look what happened to the chinese when they took opium), medicine and tablets for everything. If u wanna become a bhang grower just take ur pag off and put a lal tilak on ur matha, become some pakhandi bhangi baba, double stonks sell bhang and open up ur dera, u can probably trick some gorre as well... saw an article on a bhangi hindu baba in USA or some <banned word filter activated> a while ago... he seemed to be living the life which u want to justify inside sikhi, somewere where it does not belong. Sorry for the bashing but its become quite annoying now, stop justifying nashe!!!

Some of my favorite kirtan radios! - Lo-fi Raag/Puratan Kirtan: Radio Dodra: http://www.radiododra.com/ AKJ Radio:

http://sttm.co/s/2126/24387 ਸਲੋਕ ਮਃ ੩ ॥ Shalok, Third Mehla: ਮਾਣਸੁ ਭਰਿਆ ਆਣਿਆ ਮਾਣਸੁ ਭਰਿਆ ਆਇ ॥ One person brings a full bottle, and another fills his cup. ਜਿਤੁ ਪੀਤੈ ਮਤਿ ਦੂਰਿ ਹੋਇ ਬਰਲੁ ਪਵੈ ਵਿਚਿ ਆਇ ॥ Drinking the wine, his intelligence departs, and madness enters his mind; ਆਪਣਾ ਪਰਾਇਆ ਨ ਪਛਾਣਈ ਖਸਮਹੁ ਧਕੇ ਖਾਇ ॥ he cannot distinguish between his own and others, and he is struck down by his Lord and Master. ਜਿਤੁ ਪੀਤੈ ਖਸਮੁ ਵਿਸਰੈ ਦਰਗਹ ਮਿਲੈ ਸਜਾਇ ॥ Drinking it, he forgets his Lord and Master, and he is punished in the Court of the Lord. ਝੂਠਾ ਮਦੁ ਮੂਲਿ ਨ ਪੀਚਈ ਜੇ ਕਾ ਪਾਰਿ ਵਸਾਇ ॥ Do not drink the false wine at all, if it is in your power. ਨਾਨਕ ਨਦਰੀ ਸਚੁ ਮਦੁ ਪਾਈਐ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਮਿਲੈ ਜਿਸੁ ਆਇ ॥ O Nanak, the True Guru comes and meets the mortal; by His Grace, one obtains the True Wine. ਸਦਾ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਕੈ ਰੰਗਿ ਰਹੈ ਮਹਲੀ ਪਾਵੈ ਥਾਉ ॥੧॥ He shall dwell forever in the Love of the Lord Master, and obtain a seat in the Mansion of His Presence. ||1||

Just for linguistic interest, I think ਮਦਰਾ literally means wine.

This could have been used to measure Pehar timings. A common misconception is that a pehar is 3 hours long, this is far from the case. A pehar is dynamic depending on what part of the day one is in. There are two parts in day: Daytime and Nighttime. This means there are two types of pehars. Daytime: Sunrise to Sunset Nighttime: Sunset to next Sunrise Since Sun timings are always changing, pehar timings are always different. 1st Daytime Pehar - Starts at Sunrise 3rd Daytime Pehar - Starts at Solar Noon 1st Nighttime Pehar - Starts at Sunset 3rd Nighttime Pehar - Starts at Solar Midnight. In total there are 8 Pehars, but one cannot assume the daytime and nighttime pehars are of the same length.

Yeah why not? You are not using it for recreational purposes but for medical and health reasons.

There are toothpaste and mouth wash without alcohol. Usually the cake and chocolate with alcohol comes from the vanilla extract and there is vanilla extract without alcohol. As for cologne and deodorant, there are alternatives as well but I wouldn't say its necessary as we don't eat or drink it. I don't think it dissolves only in alcohol. When I went to the pharmacy there was Ashwaganda without alcohol and there was also with alcohol. Try and look for alternatives - https://theherbalacademy.com/how-to-make-herbal-glycerites-tinctures-without-alcohol/

I wouldn't have it... If you can find the same extracts without alcohol, u should have that instead

Tbh, I don't think we can know. He mentions that he records the meetings but I don't think he released them. Other people pointed out that he would mention writings to support his points but never sourced them. In the end, true or not, it's a pretty good page-turner.

showing the muslims in bad light is part of the hindutva motive though isnt it so thats why the movies are so unbalanced. these movies are basically used politically and they are having a big impact in india. but they are gd movies! iv seen padmavaat i really liked it amazing production! i wouldnt mind if they make a movie about sikh warriors like hari singh nalwa currently bollywood is really gd with historical epics

My comments are interspersed. "You" might refer either to you, or to the jihadi. This is a good effort by you. I have some quibbles and suggestions, below. A general question I have for you is: Are your responses meant to be your own personal take on things? Or a "consensus" view of the Sikhs? Because if it's the latter, you might have to include some loosely worded text that you might not strictly believe in. (Or couch it in the form of "many/most Sikhs believe X. Others believe Y") Well, in your religion, if you don't agree with the philosophy of a mosque, you just blow it up. All we have are strictly worded letters (Hukumnammas), a much weaker enforcement system. I agree that in one sense the Gurus weren't Khatri (because the word or shabad didn't have a caste). But, at the same time, God chose the Khatri line to put Satguru in. In the end, that's God's choice. Moreover, can you (the jihadi) state that why Mohammed was born into the highly-esteemed Quraishi tribe? Two can play at this game. If Allah wanted to show the equality of man, and that the meek and poor can become big, then why didn't he make some limbless, deaf, dumb, blind black orphan from Africa the Prophet? Explain with citations from multiple newspapers published from Heaven. (sarc) Additionally, there might be something to explore in the fact that, traditionally, avatars/religious leaders in India were from the Khatris, like Ram ji and Krishan ji. Perhaps the point was to underline the martial identity (Chatri ko poot ho, bahman ko nahi -- Pa: 10). While I suppose I might agree that there might not have been an explicit discussion of caste in regards to the marriage of the Gurus, I think it was well understood that when a match was needed for the Gurus, that meant a Khatri girl. The same way that vegetarian Sikhs will have a hard time totally excising meat from Sikh history, I think that we simply have to accept that Guru Sahiban married within the Khatri fold. I don't think there's anything really wrong with that either, as long as you're accepting of all people as people in a loving manner, which the Gurus manifestly did. I.e., you can marry whoever you want (such as a Khatri), you just can't discriminate against them in the Gurdwara or in other fields of life. There's a guy on this forum that likes to argue that the Mughals wrote into Sikh history that the Gurus married Khatris, but come on, that's a wacko conspiracy theory with no proof whatsoever, and we open ourselves up to ridicule if we go that route. Good answers, esp. about the actual successors having done good stuff in history. What did the other claimants (Dattu, Dassu, Pirthi Chand, Dhir mal, etc.) do? Also, did Mohammed not give power and influence to friends and relatives? Well, among other reasons, we don't go around "converting" people with the sword. In fact even if you want to become a Sikh, there's no guarantee the Panj Piyare will grant you initiation with Amrit. People have free will. This isn't a "heaven" with robots. If Islam is supreme why would people leave it? Oh, what's that you say? People don't leave it? I wonder if that might have anything to do with the fact that the punishment for leaving Islam is death. That's not merely theoretical, it's written into the law of Muslim countries. That's why you have the conceit of people leaving Sikhism while they don't dare to leave Islam (not publicly, anyway). What's the point of the question? How is it that the truth of Sikhism is supposed to be shown by having copycats, and that too only in the West? Why aren't there any Prophets with a similar message to Islam in the West? (Also a stupid question.) In any case, most Sikhs believe that Sikhism is basically the ancient dharam of all, with a few superficial differences in current Sikh practice. Certainly that's true for ancient Indian dharam. What's the point of asking "in the West"? None of the Abrahamic religions are from the West, so why would ask that of Sikhism? If you like something, you want to hear more of it. If you don't, you don't. Should be simple, why can't you understand that? Gurbani is not a bunch of stories or essays. It's poetry meant to be sung. But you wouldn't understand that, because your religion bans music. How could you possibly understand the beauty of celestial music (Ilahi bani)? Your answers are good, as well. Some Sikhs have taken the tack of denying our Gurus had multiple wives, to deal with the Christians. I think this is a mistake, because the facts of history are too well-established, so we're just setting ourselves up for failure. I do agree that the notion of Guru Har Rai ji's 7 wives is debatable (not firmly coming down on one side or the other). If you want to discard that, that's fine. However, the fact of Guru Hargobind ji's 3 wives and Guru Gobind Singh ji's 3 wives can simply not be reasonably questioned. It can be questioned, but not reasonably questioned, because you have to go out on a limb, and discard so much, and then you open yourself up to attack on the basis of all of Sikh history being totally unreliable. So I would advise against that. The fact is, just like (as you mentioned) the vast majority of Sikhs have no problem with the Dasam Granth, so too the vast majority of Sikhs have no problem with the latter Gurus having multiple wives. In fact, they like it, because they think it makes them seem kingly (I agree with them). The post that you mentioned has the same old statement that the idea of Guru Gobind Singh ji's multiple wives was created by writers unfamiliar with Punjabi culture. Which is ridiculous, because Kavi Santokh Singh was unfamiliar with Punjabi culture? See my detailed respons(es) here. Yeah, talk about the pot calling the kettle black. I think an inclusive answer would be to state that some Sikhs don't eat meat at all, for those who chose to, there are certain rules for that. As for a "clear guideline" some Sikhs (esp. meat-eaters) think that the reason for not being such a guideline is that the Gurus didn't necessarily ban meat per se, but left that up to people's discretions. I might not even totally agree with that, but when you're dealing with an outsider, you'd probably want to provide an answer on the behalf of all Sikhs. Irony detector fail. As a jihadi from the land of fatwas and beheadings and roving morality police, you're asking why Sikhs are told not to ask questions? Seriously? Agreed. Also, most of this stuff is just sniping around the edges. The jihadis' approach to daawa is to paint a ridiculous picture of how Sikhism is supposed to be if it were the "True Religion". That is, if Sikhism were the "True Religion", then nobody would ever leave it, all Sikhs would have all of Guru Granth Sahib memorized, all Sikhs could do Raag kirtan in all 31 raags plus sub-raags--in puratan stringed instruments, all Sikhs would be filthy rich, all non-Sikhs (if any existed) would be beggars, the Sikhs would have nuclear weapons, quantum computing, and faster-than-light trips to Mars, and non-Sikhs would be living in the rainforest. Nothing more than strawmen. The real question is: Are humans better off as Sikhs or Muslims? Overwhelmingly the former.

I do agree that discussion should be allowed to the maximum extent possible. I'd really like to get into some debates with some missionaries on this forum, but seems difficult because they get banned. Well, what was the actual reason, again, that he got banned? In any case, the mods let him run loose again, but he voluntarily chose to leave (because he thinks too much of himself, and he thinks everybody else is below him). That's unfortunate because I had still wanted to pin him on some of his ridiculous statements. I do think it would be better if there were a few more posts per thread. But do note that there are a lot of people who read threads without commenting. What I would like is for topics to be fully discussed without being dropped in the middle. There have been some discussions like that over the years (such as the one on the topic of Was Fareed ji a Muslim).

This forum is attracting non-Sikhs. Which means Sikhi is spreading. They allow Dasam Granth and Sarbloh Granth. Also Mahapurakhs.

Question: Master ji, we all know that it's very crucial to abstain from the eating of meat because this increases our karmas, but can you explain in more detail the reasons for becoming vegetarian? Thakar Singh: We should not increase our burden of karmas as you have already said. There is karmic value in every kind of thing we use in this world. The air we consume, we have to pay for. The water we use, we have to pay for. The light of the sun or moon is also not free for us, and this green grass is also to be paid for - nothing is free. Depending on the "Jun" (life-form), there is a price to be paid. Lower life forms have a lower price to pay. Plants have a lower spiritual price than animal life forms. So why take the higher burden? If you are to construct a house, you don't make it with gold or silver or jewels. If you can, you make the house with stone - Stone is very strong and cheap -- So, why don't you make your house with stone and bricks instead of gold? This body is like a house. Build it with material that is spiritually cheap and strong. Fruits and vegetables are spiritually cheap and they can make you spiritually and physically strong. Higher life-forms are expensive - and you will have to pay a higher price! In the same way, if we can maintain a simple life style, with a spiritually lower cost - with this greenery, fruits, etc - then why attract so much burden and payment of karma by consuming higher life-forms? God did not really say that it is "burden-less" or it is all free. He has never explained it like this, but He has allowed us to have these lower forms because with our meditations we can release ourselves very quickly and easily and therefore we will not "over-burden" ourselves for a long time. This is also the case with people who eat animals. Their nervous systems have been seriously disturbed and shaken. Even if you look at an animal that has been killed you will be emotionally affected; your nervous system will be disturbed and you will lose so much peace; you will not feel good and your heart will be affected by it. Look at a dying fish. It is out of water and if you look at it, for one or two hours or even some days your heart will not feel good. You will think of the condition of that fish and it will feel horrible and your heart and mind will be in some kind of perturbed state. For months even this state of mind will continue. Maybe after a long time you will forget this scene and its effect will be gone from your heart and then perhaps you cannot remember it - still it has its effect. If just looking at a dead fish causes this then what will be the case when we eat it and all these negative vibrations enter into our system. So many diseases will come up and our mental systems will be disturbed. But when we eat some greenery or fruit everything is wonderful. The plant produces the fruit for consumption by an animal so that the seeds can be transported to new places. In fact by eating the fruit you are doing a favour to the plant! - the fruit is a bait for the animal to do a function that the plant desires - That is the function of a fruit. If you look at fruit that is ripe the colors tell you so wonderfully that it is ripe. A fragrance is also available and when you smell it you enjoy it and even when you remember the smell you feel good. Your heart is also enjoying and your mind and body are at peace. Q. Flesh-eaters often say to vegetarian Sikhs, if you eat only vegetables you are also taking life. What, then is the difference between taking the life of, say, a pig and that of a vegetable? A. All the difference in the world. Does a potato cry out when it is taken from the earth the way a calf does when it is taken from its mother? Does a stick of celery scream in pain and terror when it is picked the way a pig does when it is being led to slaughter and is having its throat cut? And how sad, lonely, and frightened can a head of lettuce feel? We don't need a polygraph to demonstrate that plants have consciousness of a sort, but this consciousness is obviously of a rudimentary kind, far different from that of mammals with well developed nervous systems. Nor do we need tests to prove that fowls and pigs and sheep experience pain to the same degree as human beings, for it is common observation that animals wince, howl, wail, and show terror when abused or injured and make every effort to avoid pain. Actually many fruits and vegetables can be picked without killing or even harming the plants. These include berries, melons, legumes, nuts, seeds, pumpkins, and many other vegetables. Potatoes are taken from the ground after the plant has died. Most vegetables are annuals, harvested at or near the end of their natural life. In fact, there is considerable scientific evidence that the human physiology, like that of our closest living creatures - the great apes, is vegetarian in design. The structure of our skin, teeth, stomach and bowels, the length of our digestive system, the composition of our saliva, stomach acids and urine, etc. are all typically vegetarian. There is also a mountain of evidence proving that a meat-based diet contributes to a whole range of diseases. Many scientists now concede that fruits, vegetables, nuts, seeds, and grains appear best suited to the human body. Finally, we know that we cannot subsist for long without food, and all food is matter that was once alive. But since we can subsist well and even thrive without meat, why take animal life in addition to the plant life we need to survive? Among certain spiritually oriented persons one will often hear this strange rationalization: "Sure, we eat meat", they say, "what of it"? What is most important is not what enters the stomach but what comes out of the mind! Although it is true that ridding oneself of one's delusions, breaking out of the prison of the ego-I into a life of sympathy with all sentient beings is paramount, how can we establish a sympathetic rapport with non-humans while we are feasting on them? "Do not cause pain to any creature, Go back to your Home with honour." (Sri Guru Granth Sahib, pg 322) Story of Bheesham Pitama In accordance to Hindu mythology, Draupadi asked the saint Sant Bheesham Pitama, why he had not come to her rescue when she was stripped of her clothing in Duryodans court. She queried him, saying that if he was a saint, why did he not raise his voice when evil was going on before his very eyes in Duryodanas court. He started to cry and said, Daughter, I shall tell you the truth; my mind became clouded by darkness as I had eaten in Duryodans house. Therefore, this shows how the love of God breaks away from a being as their mind becomes clouded by filth and prevents them from performing good deeds.

http://www.smithsonianchannel.com/site/sn/video/player/do-plants-respond-to-pain/407509484001/ First Mahalla Guru Nanak: Look, and see how the sugar-cane is cut down. After cutting away its branches, its feet are bound together into bundles, and then, it is placed between the wooden rollers and crushed. What punishment is inflicted upon it! Its juice is extracted and placed in the cauldron; as it is heated, it groans and cries out. And then, the crushed cane is collected and burnt in the fire below. Nanak: come, people, and see how the sweet sugar-cane is treated! ||2|| Posted by Kamalroop Singh on fb

gurusahib told this 500 yrs ago

Hindutva has infiltrated our community so much, it's unbelievable. The Basanti (Xanthic/Yellow) is the real Sikh colour. Educated Sikhs will know this and agree that orange is not our colour but Yellow is. With regards to the Kesri colour, the Saffron that was grown in the Panjab and near Panjab was actually turmeric, which we call Haldi. If you listen to old, old Dhadi Vaaran, it is widely mentioned as the Khatta flag on Peshawar etc. If you look at Jathedar's dastaar, it is definetely not orange. Singhs of the Jatha - you can see there dastaar colours. A old account: A Translation of the Seir Mutaqharin, ca. 1789 Ghulam Hussain Khan, translated by M. Raymond, 1789 They form a particular society as well as a sect, which distinguishes itself by wearing almost always blue cloaths (v), and going armed at all times. (v) It is true that they wear only a short blue jacket, and blue longdraws: but they use likewise the yellow and the white in their turbans, as well as the blue, although by the by the latter is the general colour. To conclude - Orange is 100% not the Khalsa colour. Yellow/Xanthic/Colour of Mustard flower is.

I find the Sikh colour debate a strange circular argument....and see little benefit in this argument. Paintings of Guru Sahibs are artists impressions and more than often confuse Sikhs. There are paintings of our Guru sahibs with ear rings, topis, tilaks, wearing colours such as green (which surely more "islamic" than black or blue) and red which are can be contradictory to Sikhi. I think these arguments stem from marginalising individual groups within the Kaum who may adopt a certain colour as their uniform, such as black by the original Akali Dals, blue by the Nihang Dal and white by the Sant Sampardas. What about the current soldiers of various armies wear khaki or green as part of their uniform? As an individual, I personally see little issue in the colour worn despite being dragged down by other individuals who like to have a pop at dastar colours. As a disciple of my Guru I feel privileged and blessed to wear my Black, Blue, White, Orange and even... Khaki, Brown, Beige, Yellow, Grey dastar... Funnily enough, when I see a whole group of Muslim men standing outside the mosque all dressed in white from head to toe and I remember a heated debate I got myself into with an elder Sikh in Soho Road Gurdwara because I wore a blue bana ...he was adament that blue is the colour of islam and white is the colour of the Khalsa, strangely enough I have never seen a muslim wearing blue to the mosque.

ਗੁਰਮਤੀ ਮਨੁ ਇਕਤੁ ਘਰਿ ਆਇਆ ਸਚੈ ਰੰਗਿ ਰੰਗਾਵਣਿਆ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ Through the Guru's Teachings, my mind has come to its only home; it is imbued with the True Color of the Lord's Love. ||1||Pause||

Many of the self made clever clogs who like to panic/confuse Sikhs use the Muslim hysteria on colours very often for blue too. Blue has also been slated by many wearers of white by labeling it a muslim colour. Ironically, I see most muslims going to mosque in white more than any other colours.

Baba Ranjit Singh Dadriawale, Baba Baljit Singh DaduSahibwale often wear black. I have seen pictures of Baba Isher Singh Kaleran Wale, Baba Isher Singh Rarewala in black, as well as other respected Mahapursh of the last century.

ok... i have a question... below is a shabad and talks abt the incarnations a soul has to go and tells tht human life is to meet with GOD! anywys.. the shabad tells us tht ... our soul get incarnated as rocks and plants as well so.. comments plzzz... i m baffled !!! ਗਉੜੀ ਗੁਆਰੇਰੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥ ga-orhee gu-aarayree mehlaa 5. Gauree Gwaarayree, Fifth Mehl: ਕਈ ਜਨਮ ਭਏ ਕੀਟ ਪਤੰਗਾ ॥ ka-ee janam bha-ay keet patangaa. In so many incarnations, you were a worm and an insect; ਕਈ ਜਨਮ ਗਜ ਮੀਨ ਕੁਰੰਗਾ ॥ ka-ee janam gaj meen kurangaa. in so many incarnations, you were an elephant, a fish and a deer. ਕਈ ਜਨਮ ਪੰਖੀ ਸਰਪ ਹੋਇਓ ॥ ka-ee janam pankhee sarap ho-i-o. In so many incarnations, you were a bird and a snake. ਕਈ ਜਨਮ ਹੈਵਰ ਬ੍ਰਿਖ ਜੋਇਓ ॥੧॥ ka-ee janam haivar barikh jo-i-o. ||1|| In so many incarnations, you were yoked as an ox and a horse. ||1|| ਮਿਲੁ ਜਗਦੀਸ ਮਿਲਨ ਕੀ ਬਰੀਆ ॥ mil jagdees milan kee baree-aa. Meet the Lord of the Universe - now is the time to meet Him. ਚਿਰੰਕਾਲ ਇਹ ਦੇਹ ਸੰਜਰੀਆ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ chirankaal ih dayh sanjaree-aa. ||1|| rahaa-o. After so very long, this human body was fashioned for you. ||1||Pause|| ਕਈ ਜਨਮ ਸੈਲ ਗਿਰਿ ਕਰਿਆ ॥ ka-ee janam sail gir kari-aa. In so many incarnations, you were rocks and mountains; ਕਈ ਜਨਮ ਗਰਭ ਹਿਰਿ ਖਰਿਆ ॥ ka-ee janam garabh hir khari-aa. in so many incarnations, you were aborted in the womb; ਕਈ ਜਨਮ ਸਾਖ ਕਰਿ ਉਪਾਇਆ ॥ ka-ee janam saakh kar upaa-i-aa. in so many incarnations, you developed branches and leaves; ਲਖ ਚਉਰਾਸੀਹ ਜੋਨਿ ਭ੍ਰਮਾਇਆ ॥੨॥ lakh cha-oraaseeh jon bharmaa-i-aa. ||2|| you wandered through 8.4 million incarnations. ||2|| ਸਾਧਸੰਗਿ ਭਇਓ ਜਨਮੁ ਪਰਾਪਤਿ ॥ saaDhsang bha-i-o janam paraapat. Through the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy, you obtained this human life. ਕਰਿ ਸੇਵਾ ਭਜੁ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਗੁਰਮਤਿ ॥ kar sayvaa bhaj har har gurmat. Do seva - selfless service; follow the Guru's Teachings, and vibrate the Lord's Name, Har, Har. ਤਿਆਗਿ ਮਾਨੁ ਝੂਠੁ ਅਭਿਮਾਨੁ ॥ ti-aag maan jhooth abhimaan. Abandon pride, falsehood and arrogance. ਜੀਵਤ ਮਰਹਿ ਦਰਗਹ ਪਰਵਾਨੁ ॥੩॥ jeevat mareh dargeh parvaan. ||3|| Remain dead while yet alive, and you shall be welcomed in the Court of the Lord. ||3|| ਜੋ ਕਿਛੁ ਹੋਆ ਸੁ ਤੁਝ ਤੇ ਹੋਗੁ ॥ jo kichh ho-aa so tujh tay hog. Whatever has been, and whatever shall be, comes from You, Lord. ਅਵਰੁ ਨ ਦੂਜਾ ਕਰਣੈ ਜੋਗੁ ॥ avar na doojaa karnai jog. No one else can do anything at all. ਤਾ ਮਿਲੀਐ ਜਾ ਲੈਹਿ ਮਿਲਾਇ ॥ taa milee-ai jaa laihi milaa-ay. We are united with You, when You unite us with Yourself. ਕਹੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਗੁਣ ਗਾਇ ॥੪॥੩॥੭੨॥ kaho naanak har har gun gaa-ay. ||4||3||72|| Says Nanak, sing the Glorious Praises of the Lord, Har, Har. ||4||3||72||

Hmm...I guess it doesn't hurt to add my own Opinion :D I think this shabad is saying that we shouldn't waist our human life doing pointless things. Do what we can only do in THIS life, which is to reach God. In no other life could we reach God. So something happend, maybe our luck or just our destiny that we were given this human form. Now we have intelegence. We can now try to understand God and hopefully merge with him. The rocks and trees that are all around us. They are so many. In comparison their are many fold more non-humans then humans. This means that this life is truly rare. It is basically trying to smack you upside your head and say LOOK fool, look how lucky you are!