Is Gurinder Chadha Persuing Anti Sikh Male Agenda?

[proudkaur21]

Hoestly both the men and the women of our community have very loose morals. I mean in canada itself i see how the men and women behave. Like its so hard to find a good gursikh with whom you want to live the sikh way of life. Our people are so materialistic and obsessed with money and being wannabees. Insane. sikhi taught you to be different but offcourse your low iq brain will only follow the crowd like the sheep you are.

[MisterrSingh]

3 hours ago, proudkaur21 said:

when did this tradition of letting non sikhs marry sikhs in gurudwaras start? like ive yet to see catholic church or mosques allow inter religious marriages. I dont understand how did this start and how did we let this happen for so long.No wonder most of our people just go and marry people of other religions without a thought. They have never been taught the importance of sikhi or the sikh marriage. Like ive never seen muslims complain how evil it is that mosques dont allow interfaith marriages. They know its not allowed in their religions so when they usualy marry interfaith they do civil court marriages or something else. But no our lot think gurudwaras are a circus where anyone can go and eat free food, dance , marry whoever you like. Its all one love one humanity. Biggest mistake to ever let this interfaith marriages every happen in gurudwara. No wonder we are nothing now. Guru gobind singh ji said they would be with us as long as we live the khalsa way of life but no something went completely wrong and now we have all this mess because our useless low iq ancestors never set boundaries. So now so called sikhs dont even want to marry other sikhs because its one luv one humanity smh. Half of the sikhs in india think we are hindus cuz of the constant propoganda they are surrounded with. We should have clear set boundaries that we are not hindus or muslims .Such a big mistake so now our lot keep intermarrying with others because sikhi says we are all one. Smh whats the point of being a sikh if you dont even want to live the sikh way of life by marrying another sikh. Whats the point of being in love with your religion when you dont even pass it on? If being a muslim or christain is so great then why is the word such a shitty place. The word would be 1000 times better if sikhi was spread but no our lot are tooo low iq or self aware about how the world works. They literally dont know the value of sikhi.

It's not about the merits of the message or its appeal or anything of the sort. It's just a matter of strength and establishing roots and having a firm foundation. The stronger and longer established the foundation, the more likely its adherents are going to follow its norms over the decades and centuries, because the idea is that if a belief system, etc., has been around for a long time, then its not only NOT died out, but it's also managed to stabilise itself and remain relatively "available" for that duration. This then lends confidence to the followers of that belief system that "what we believe in must be true because it's still in existence."

Compared to the Jews, Christians, and Muslims, we haven't been around for long. When you look at our history, one might argue we were founded maybe 500-700 years later than we needed to be. We seemed to arrive on the cusp of the industrial age in a changing world that perhaps wasn't stable or settled enough for us to drive home the message of our religion to our followers. We needed at least 500 years of just wallowing in the pind, lol, for the religious stuff to sink in. What actually happened was that we seemed to zoom through and experience around 950 years worth of history and upheaval, condensed into about 250 years. That's too much too soon. You cannot maintain that intensity and glorious religious fervour for decades nevermind centuries.

Again, there wasn't enough time to really develop deep roots that would withstand all sorts of tribulations and changes. There's so many other smaller factors that worked against us sociologically, politically, religiously, geographically, etc. There was never a settled period where we could stretch our legs so to speak and look to expand at the expense of other competing religions in the region. The arrival of the British was the worst thing for us at that time. Without them making inroads into our spaces, the opportunity was there for us to push for becoming a regional power. The Brits own imperial ambitions f****d that up for us big-time. I'm not saying it was guaranteed, but the beginnings of something were definitely there.

That's why there's not that "compulsion" or wider sense of loyalty and belonging to uphold Sikh values among successive generations because we've now been exposed to other ways and paths either secular or otherwise. People are going to wander so to speak. That's human nature. Look at the followers of the previously mentioned longer established groups; even their people are gradually drifting away, but the reason we feel it more keenly is because there was less of us to begin with. You can't artifically manufacture that initial sense of laying down roots hundreds or thousands of years after the initial bursting onto the scene of whatever religious system we're talking about. It has to be spontaneous and natural.

Religions also require a certain degree of ignorance of the world on the part of their followers (I'm being brutally honest), and like I said when your belief system emerges on the verge of a monumental shift in a species' consciousness where they begin to head towards things like industrialism and post-enlightenment modernity (more so when migration to better developed nations becomes a central facet of a groups such as ours) it's an uphill battle to retain the old ways intact.

But, yes, we don't make things easier on ourselves. In fact, we're hastening our own demise. You know, survival of the fittest: if we aren't capable of ensuring our own ongoing existence, then maybe we don't deserve it.

 

[Jai Tegang!]

35 minutes ago, MisterrSingh said:

It's not about the merits of the message or its appeal or anything of the sort. It's just a matter of strength and establishing roots and having a firm foundation. The stronger and longer established the foundation, the more likely its adherents are going to follow its norms over the decades and centuries, because the idea is that if a belief system, etc., has been around for a long time, then its not only NOT died out, but it's also managed to stabilise itself and remain relatively "available" for that duration. This then lends confidence to the followers of that belief system that "what we believe in must be true because it's still in existence."

Compared to the Jews, Christians, and Muslims, we haven't been around for long. When you look at our history, one might argue we were founded maybe 500-700 years later than we needed to be. We seemed to arrive on the cusp of the industrial age in a changing world that perhaps wasn't stable or settled enough for us to drive home the message of our religion to our followers. We needed at least 500 years of just wallowing in the pind, lol, for the religious stuff to sink in. What actually happened was that we seemed to zoom through and experience around 950 years worth of history and upheaval, condensed into about 250 years. That's too much too soon.

Again, there wasn't enough time to really develop deep roots that would withstand all sorts of tribulations and changes. There's so many other smaller factors that worked against us sociologically, politically, religiously, geographically, etc. There was never a settled period where we could stretch our legs so to speak and look to expand at the expense of other competing religions in the region. The arrival of the British was the worst thing for us at that time. Without them making inroads into our spaces, the opportunity was there for us to push for becoming a regional power. The Brits own imperial ambitions f****d that up for us big-time. I'm not saying it was guaranteed, but the beginnings of something were definitely there.

That's why there's not that "compulsion" or wider sense of loyalty and belonging to uphold Sikh values among successive generations because we've now been exposed to other ways and paths either secular or otherwise. People are going to wander so to speak. That's human nature. Look at the followers of the previously mentioned longer established groups; even their people are gradually drifting away, but the reason we feel it more keenly is because there was less of us to begin with. You can't artifically manufacture that initial sense of laying down roots hundreds or thousands of years after the initial bursting onto the scene of whatever religious system we're talking about. It has to be spontaneous and natural.

Religions also require a certain degree of ignorance of the world on the part of their followers (I'm being brutally honest), and like I said when your belief system emerges on the verge of a monumental shift in a species' consciousness where they begin to head towards things like industrialism and post-enlightenment modernity (more so when migration to better developed nations becomes a central facet of a groups such as ours) it's an uphill battle to retain the old ways intact.

But, yes, we don't make things easier on ourselves. In fact, we're hastening our own demise. You know, survival of the fittest: if we aren't capable of ensuring our own ongoing existence, then maybe we don't deserve it.

 

Brother you have a gift of really articulating things. Always awesome to read your posts! Sometimes I feel our kaum is just caught in a whirlwind of issues of  modernity, coming from all directions, that it's hard to even grasp all that is going on. It's like the intellectual manpower is so small that the leaks and bursts in the panthic ship are impossible to seal. 

Also, your point on the british arrival is spot on. It does feel like our natural progression to regional power was cut short prematurely. We appeared to have arisen like a pheonix, claiming a strong faith based hold on the region that, if given another 200 years, would have largely converted over most muslims and hindus.( It's always socio-economic and political reasons people convert en masse. The spiritual converts are always few, yet famously inspirational). And you know the kind of dominos affect this leads to as observed from what happened in Indonesia and Malaysia. It might have swept north India even.

[MisterrSingh]

48 minutes ago, Jai Tegang! said:

Brother you have a gift of really articulating things. Always awesome to read your posts! Sometimes I feel our kaum is just caught in a whirlwind of issues of  modernity, coming from all directions, that it's hard to even grasp all that is going on. It's like the intellectual manpower is so small that the leaks and bursts in the panthic ship are impossible to seal. 

Also, your point on the british arrival is spot on. It does feel like our natural progression to regional power was cut short prematurely. We appeared to have arisen like a pheonix, claiming a strong faith based hold on the region that, if given another 200 years, would have largely converted over most muslims and hindus.( It's always socio-economic and political reasons people convert en masse. The spiritual converts are always few, yet famously inspirational). And you know the kind of dominos affect this leads to as observed from what happened in Indonesia and Malaysia. It might have swept north India even.

I no longer despair or leap to "the sky is falling" mentality when it comes to our future as a collective. Or I'm trying. I now see it as the natural, cyclical process experienced by all living things be they individual people or larger entities consisting of smaller constituent parts. Nothing lasts forever. There have been way greater civilisations than ours that have dominated mankind, and have now passed into myth. Nothing remains of them but ruins which we can't even attribute to them with absolute certainty. 

I think what stings some Sikhs is the idea that, with some smarter and wiser decision-making at key moments of our post-1708 history, we could'a been contenders! Instead, it seems history has overwhelmed us, and we're fizzling out with barely a murmur when we had the basic tools at our disposal to really shake things up for the good. 

 

[proudkaur21]

yup the amount of issues that we are surrounded by are too overwhelming. The future seems really bad. But its okay i guess, if people dont want to attain mukti its upto them. In the end everyone will have their own karma to face .Whether sikhi remains in the future or not , the truth will never change no matter what anyone else believes in. I think we all fear for the few sikhs that will remain in the future if things don't get better and how difficult life will be for them. Just look at our farmers and even though the protest is so large nothing is happening no one cares. If we keep decreasing it is going to be really bad for the sikhs that remain. The world is becoming horrible. But i guess that is bound to happen in kalyug.

[GurjantGnostic]

Aikido is plagued by fear of dying out or changing to the point of no longer being as well. Like Sikhi it's out of our hands mainly except what we voice, and what we do locally. 

Even the top top level Aikido Senseis I could point out numerous abberant moves, behaviors, mechanics and startegies. 

As a complete art it really only survives in small pockets now. 

Some things are so important that even if they shrink they are poised to explode. 

I hope Sikhi only grows   

[Jacfsing2]

3 hours ago, MisterrSingh said:

It's not about the merits of the message or its appeal or anything of the sort. It's just a matter of strength and establishing roots and having a firm foundation. The stronger and longer established the foundation, the more likely its adherents are going to follow its norms over the decades and centuries, because the idea is that if a belief system, etc., has been around for a long time, then its not only NOT died out, but it's also managed to stabilise itself and remain relatively "available" for that duration. This then lends confidence to the followers of that belief system that "what we believe in must be true because it's still in existence."

Compared to the Jews, Christians, and Muslims, we haven't been around for long. When you look at our history, one might argue we were founded maybe 500-700 years later than we needed to be. We seemed to arrive on the cusp of the industrial age in a changing world that perhaps wasn't stable or settled enough for us to drive home the message of our religion to our followers. We needed at least 500 years of just wallowing in the pind, lol, for the religious stuff to sink in. What actually happened was that we seemed to zoom through and experience around 950 years worth of history and upheaval, condensed into about 250 years. That's too much too soon. You cannot maintain that intensity and glorious religious fervour for decades nevermind centuries.

Again, there wasn't enough time to really develop deep roots that would withstand all sorts of tribulations and changes. There's so many other smaller factors that worked against us sociologically, politically, religiously, geographically, etc. There was never a settled period where we could stretch our legs so to speak and look to expand at the expense of other competing religions in the region. The arrival of the British was the worst thing for us at that time. Without them making inroads into our spaces, the opportunity was there for us to push for becoming a regional power. The Brits own imperial ambitions f****d that up for us big-time. I'm not saying it was guaranteed, but the beginnings of something were definitely there.

That's why there's not that "compulsion" or wider sense of loyalty and belonging to uphold Sikh values among successive generations because we've now been exposed to other ways and paths either secular or otherwise. People are going to wander so to speak. That's human nature. Look at the followers of the previously mentioned longer established groups; even their people are gradually drifting away, but the reason we feel it more keenly is because there was less of us to begin with. You can't artifically manufacture that initial sense of laying down roots hundreds or thousands of years after the initial bursting onto the scene of whatever religious system we're talking about. It has to be spontaneous and natural.

Religions also require a certain degree of ignorance of the world on the part of their followers (I'm being brutally honest), and like I said when your belief system emerges on the verge of a monumental shift in a species' consciousness where they begin to head towards things like industrialism and post-enlightenment modernity (more so when migration to better developed nations becomes a central facet of a groups such as ours) it's an uphill battle to retain the old ways intact.

But, yes, we don't make things easier on ourselves. In fact, we're hastening our own demise. You know, survival of the fittest: if we aren't capable of ensuring our own ongoing existence, then maybe we don't deserve it.

 

You think in the next 500 years or so that Sikhs will be more devout or even more lax than the current living generations? From what I see with Christian and Muslim society these days is they seem extremely less religious when compared to the olden days of their religion. 
 

I also think the fact that we don’t have an independent sooch these days, that our people are either getting absorbed into mainstream Indian or western society and that our people don’t have anything to build upon. 

[MisterrSingh]

4 hours ago, Jacfsing2 said:

You think in the next 500 years or so that Sikhs will be more devout or even more lax than the current living generations? From what I see with Christian and Muslim society these days is they seem extremely less religious when compared to the olden days of their religion. 
 

I also think the fact that we don’t have an independent sooch these days, that our people are either getting absorbed into mainstream Indian or western society and that our people don’t have anything to build upon. 

That's ultimately irrelevant because we'll only be reacting to the world and circumstances around us. That's unfortunately what we've become: reactors. We no longer have the ability and the opportunity to forge our own destiny. 

Part of that is attributable to the self-crippling belief that any attempt to think outside the box even when it doesn't fly in the face of accepted religious norms is manmati thought. Basically, any course of action that doesn't fall within the confines of a narrowly defined and outdated cultural mindset that is grossly ignorant of the current state of things, is considered to be a non-starter by the leadership. How "independent" can we be when we're taught that independent thought is a sign of a corrupted and irreligious mind?

If that isn't a guaranteed path to self destruction then what else is? You don't gain liberation through conformity, lmao. I'm sorry, that's just not how it works. Frameworks of conduct and certain rules are essential to a certain degree, but our deadly affinity to avoid thinking for ourselves and not confronting responsibility is the sign of a people with a less than bright future.

In essence, our leadership in all areas is woefully inadequate verging on criminally ignorant. Is there any figure in the panth today who you can look at in inspiration or fills you with the sense that you'd be willing to accompany them to the bitter end? Charm and chalakhi need not apply. We're full to the brim with those types of men.

The overwhelming Punjabiyat mood that permeates our systems is utterly obnoxious. It's a dead end that is applicable only to dusty villages, fields of wheat and crops, and their occupants. There's a wider world outside of that vista of which we are completely blind to its existence. We should never forget our origins and roots, of course, but to try and navigate contemporary waters using tools that are no longer up to the job is not sensible.

We're Zoroastrians in the making in terms of relevancy and impact. That's the most accurate description or comparison I can make that lends an idea to how we're perceived when we step outside of our subjective assessment of ourselves. Another fifty years on the current trajectory and we'll be viewed as a quaint little sect who was punching above its weight but couldn't get itself together enough to fulfill its aspirations for greatness.

This isn't negativity. These are cold, hard facts to be accepted and digested.

As for Gurinder Chadha and people of a similar disposition, they attach themselves to an identity that exudes strength and viability. If the identity is considered to be irrelevant, weak, or inadequate they find something that fulfils their expectations. Gurinder Chadha isn't going to build something for the ages. But she will want to become part of something pre-existing if it flatters her own existence. At the moment we don't have that draw or pull for our own people, so of course prominent individuals from our community who have no overriding sense of loyalty to some abstract concept of the collective will clearly be swayed by other groups and systems external to ours that appeal to them in some way.

 

[Premi5]

Bhaji on the Beach

Stream HERE

For our next Rialto Recommends we return to the work of writer/director Gurinder Chada (What's Cooking?, Bend it Like Beckham, Blinded by the Light) with her first film 1994's BHAJI ON THE BEACH. A group of women of Indian descent take a trip together from their home in Birmingham, England to the beach resort of Blackpool. The events of the day lead them to better mutual understanding and solidarity. The New York Times called BHAJI ON THE BEACH "a thoughtful, warmly inviting film about Asian women adapting to life in England...with impressive deftness and humor, even when addressing the ever-present matter of racism." While Variety said the film was "Humanly appealing and quite feminist." BHAJI ON THE BEACH is streaming on AmazonPrime and the Roku Channel or available to rent from Amazon for a modest fee. Check out BHAJI ON THE BEACH and see where Chada, whose work has consistently featured strong women and multiculturalism, began her feature film career.

 

https://rialtocinemas.com/index.php?location=sebastopol&film=2021_beach