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Showing content with the highest reputation on 08/25/2011 in all areas

  1. One thing our elders did was give money to Gurghars. They may have been moneh, not religiously inclined, but they worked day'n'night, overtime after overtime and not only built homes and businesses for themselves but built Gurdwaras for the community. Today's generation, between 2 annual holidays to sum stupid muslim country like dubai, new car, newer house so they don't have to live with the "old folks".. they have become so stingy and in debt. I've seen well paid youth who refuse to spend a penny towards sewa,and when they do, will ask a billion questions like they putting there life savings on it. then go out an blow a few hundred quid in restaurants and cinemas. Our youth is the problem. The religiously inclined ones are very bad spenders and very stingy towards sewa. The moneh just don't want to know. We need to learn from our elders. 300 gurdwaras in this country came though blood, sweat tears and dedication. have we go that?
    2 points
  2. I see, i did not know that. It might be dogra/mahang influence in terms of colors. I don't think the second picture was the original colors, the artists sometimes have their own imagination when they make pictures. For the flag, even at Gurudwaras, i think it should be like the ones in the paintings compiled by Freed paji as that is the original Khalsa Nishaan Sahib.
    1 point
  3. WOW got a Link From the BBC News Covering the Exhibition I'm going back down http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-14664641 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-14664641 Too many insecure people here watch this Fantastic review for our community
    1 point
  4. The BNP are a broken force. They have major internal issues and dont seem to have recovered from what happened to them in the last general election. As for the EDL, look at what happened during the riots. Whilst Sikhs came out in force to protect religous, commercial and private property, the EDL were sitting at home munching on their Tesco Value Curries or racing around in white vans doing their Christmas shopping. Sikhs have never needed anyone to achieve anything. We can do anything by ourselves if we put our mind to it.
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  5. If you read the opening post...I am asking fellow sikhs for advice on the matter..what is anyone hoping to achieve from posting on this forum HDSH? What kind of pathetic question is that when the opening post clearly states questions because i needed advice?!
    1 point
  6. Sarbjeet no wonder you on quality control your a either a nindak under disguise or a straight fool who doesn't know nothing of guru his baani but on here to cause trouble how dumb are you trying to make ppl basically think we worship durga were you blind and deaf when hearing first parts of chandi di vaar your brain truly is a kalyug infected brain from what I've seen from your posts guru ji is saying even tho durga was doing what she was, It was actually god behind it all we are not followers of Durga but of god; the real power behind everything but ppl like you get stuck into Durga i.e. either worship her or do nindiya that we "worship" her... the world said raam killed raavan but our GUru ji said no no it wasn't raam but actually god who plays everything the world said Krishan grabbed kans from hair but dasam Bani explained everything no no it wasn't krishans power it was all the work of waheguru who writes does feels sees everything himself, the world said it was raams bal (power) in his arms but dasam pita said no it wasnt his it was gods because any great king like guru ji knows waheguru himself is every cell, every inch of blood it is all him nothing else ever existed Either you learn this or should be taken off this forum any person who has got a clear understanding of God (his limits are not known but we can only comprehend how far our brain can go, even then none of his limits are known) knows that waheguru is everything, the only thing that existed and not a leaf moves without him or his raaza... when ppl say waheguru ji karda, that doesnt give exception to durga and kirshan and raam etc
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  7. Don't say that! Waheguru will always save Sikhs from financial ruin no matter how imcompetently we run our businesses and interests. /sarcasm.
    1 point
  8. I have no problems with edl making a stand, there are very valid issues that need to surface and be confronted. This is clearly never going to happen via politicians alone.. the voice of the people needs to be aired. What Edl need though, is some kind of structure. no movement can survive without a clear agenda, challenges, victories and set-backs. Just marching through streets is pointless. Not just edl, but every citizen who has any strand of moral fiber in his/her body now needs to make a stand. the drug-dealers pushing to our kids, the dirty peado gangs... the filth needs to be delt with. its no longer a time for football sing-songs.. We've seen with the rioters, there's a growing population of this country now who have zero respect for humanity at all. As for Sikh.. we have groups who tackling the issues as raised by EDL in our community. They should support their own community groups. SP, Singhrow, SAS amoungst others... Unfortunately our community also has been infiltrated by left-wing liberal sell-outs, working with government back-hands to create a false sense of "harmony" amoungst community's. "EK Saath" slough (http://www.aiksaath.com) Sunny Hundal (most devious media trouble-maker in this country), balwinder rana (turban campaign) all devious money-hungry exploiters of race-relations. These scumbags job is to divert attention from real issues, create histeria that 1000's of sikhs are going militant, only for them to then claim grants from the government to "defuse" the problem. Ek Saath- these guys used the 1990's Slough SP vs sullah fights to create a funding pool to "solve the problem" they infact just brushed over the real causes of the tension, held dumb workshops with sikh children and muslims only for a sullaah to start dating the sikh lady they employed to coordinate the whole thing! lol.. ridiculous! Sunny Hundal- with mates at bbc asian network, balwinder rana, turban campaign.. sadh sangat ji, these guys are professional Con men.. do not be fooled!! first find out how they are funding their groups and campaigns.
    1 point
  9. I'd wipe out that woman at 2:33 in an instant if I ever meet her.....evil b***h saying she's killed 8 girls and laughing about it.
    1 point
  10. Vjkk vjkf Don't know if anyone else on here has experienced this but why does it seem like when your blessed with organising events why do people in sangat get jelous of you & all of a sudden try to put you down as much as possible? I'm talking from recent experience but trying to refrain from giving away to much information Has anyone else experienced this? Or anyone have any ideas as to why this happens? Vjkk vjkf
    1 point
  11. Hope these would help in buying a good taus or a dilruba.. http://www.rajmusicals.com/index1.php http://www.tablasitar.com/
    1 point
  12. If you need more explanation i am sure the Sadh Sangat will be more than happy to help you out why this is so. Marijuana basically makes you live in a false reality engrossed in maya. You forget what life is about and waste it away doing pointless things. This Shabad is by Bhagat Kabeer Ji in Salok Kabeer Jee on Pannaa 1377 kbIr BWg mwCulI surw pwin jo jo pRwnI KWih ] kabeer bhaa(n)g maashhulee suraa paan jo jo praanee khaa(n)hi || Kabeer, those mortals who consume marijuana, fish and wine qIrQ brq nym kIey qy sBY rswqil jWih ]233] theerathh barath naem keeeae thae sabhai rasaathal jaa(n)hi ||233|| - no matter what pilgrimages, fasts and rituals they follow, they will all go to hell. ||233| -- This Shabad is by Guru Nanak Dev Ji in Raag Tilang on Pannaa 721 iqlµg mhlw 1 Gru 2 thila(n)g mehalaa 1 ghar 2 Tilang, First Mehla, Second House: <> siqgur pRswid ] ik oa(n)kaar sathigur prasaadh || One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru: Bau qyrw BWg KlVI myrw cIqu ] bho thaeraa bhaa(n)g khalarree maeraa cheeth || The Fear of You, O Lord God, is my marijuana; my consciousness is the pouch which holds it. mY dyvwnw BieAw AqIqu ] mai dhaevaanaa bhaeiaa atheeth || I have become an intoxicated hermit. kr kwsw drsn kI BUK ] kar kaasaa dharasan kee bhookh || My hands are my begging bowl; I am so hungry for the Blessed Vision of Your Darshan. mY dir mwgau nIqw nIq ]1] mai dhar maago neethaa neeth ||1|| I beg at Your Door, day after day. ||1|| qau drsn kI krau smwie ] tho dharasan kee karo samaae || I long for the Blessed Vision of Your Darshan. mY dir mwgqu BIiKAw pwie ]1] rhwau ] mai dhar maagath bheekhiaa paae ||1|| rehaao || I am a beggar at Your Door - please bless me with Your charity. ||1||Pause|| kysir kusm imrgmY hrxw srb srIrI cV@xw ] kaesar kusam miragamai haranaa sarab sareeree charrhanaa || Saffron, flowers, musk oil and gold embellish the bodies of all. cMdn Bgqw joiq ienyhI srby prmlu krxw ]2] cha(n)dhan bhagathaa joth einaehee sarabae paramal karanaa ||2|| The Lord's devotees are like sandalwood, which imparts its fragrance to everyone. ||2|| iGA pt BWfw khY n koie ] ghia patt bhaa(n)ddaa kehai n koe || No one says that ghee or silk are polluted. AYsw Bgqu vrn mih hoie ] aisaa bhagath varan mehi hoe || Such is the Lord's devotee, no matter what his social status is. qyrY nwim invy rhy ilv lwie ] thaerai naam nivae rehae liv laae || Those who bow in reverence to the Naam, the Name of the Lord, remain absorbed in Your Love. nwnk iqn dir BIiKAw pwie ]3]1]2] naanak thin dhar bheekhiaa paae ||3||1||2|| Nanak begs for charity at their door. ||3||1||2||
    1 point
  13. Welcome to Kalyug... Kalyug will keep beating you in different ways until you bow 100% to the Master and accept everything as Him, if you get beaten, it's Him beating you, if you get hated on, it's Him hating on you. Until you get rid of the barriers and recognise that your Father is pushing you towards him in different ways through different people the irritations(pain i.e hell state of mind of people bugging you, irritation is actually Maya presenting itself as still being alive and kicking within you) will not leave. Brahmgyanis are psychologically sound, seeing pain and pleasure as one because when someone kicks them they recognise that person as God, they are afraid of noone and nothing as all is Him, they dont get over excited at anything because its all God who's been there with them forever etc- Nirboa, nirvair etc
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  14. so whats the EDL agenda.. manifesto? support victims? short, medium, long term plan to deal with radicalism, immigration, muslim pedo gangs?... Or you going to leave that to the politicians and get heavy instead? vigilante your areas, schools from drug dealers and perverts? So what kind of movement is it?.. boffins or heavies? At the moment its nothing! So far, all we've seen these guys do is gather their mates up in city centers and shout stuff... surely even now your bored of shouting "E E, E, D L"... completely familiarising yourselves with those 3 letters, like the longest sesame street episode from hell...
    1 point
  15. besides, the param is the thig inside the body that flys, not the body it self, tho it (the body) can happen (fly/ become close to weightless). tests have been done Re: NDE's (near death experiances) {scientific} no one has stated that the param is this. this is what i wanted to talk bout. the param..
    1 point
  16. Pyare sikho! Great comments singh559 ji and HDSH ji. Lets ignore the above comment and continue with this Gurmat discussion (if you find our discussion hilarious babbersher ji then please explain why). These sort of comments are a waste of time and deflect the conversation somewhere else. Benti to posters, please keep to the topic and post meaningful posts, if you find our discussion amusing then its best to keep that to yourself or at least attempt to provide some sort of explanation. Rabb Rakhe Satguru Mehar Karan
    1 point
  17. Dal khalsa posted it on Facebook plus were on Sikh channel saying it video is on YouTube I think and I'm pretty. Sure it was Sikh channel or some other Sikh tv program for sure tho Dal khalsa posted it on Facebook plus were on Sikh channel saying it video is on YouTube I think and I'm pretty. Sure it was Sikh channel or some other Sikh tv program for sure tho but as far as I know thy haven't told us where they got that info
    1 point
  18. lol online rejections sangat says?, go to your local uk gurdwara matrimonials and see all this non-turban baqwaas on the list. I can say I went to the biggest gurdwara in uk in Southall, its full of turban hating kuris. This is absolute utter waste thinking from our uk sikh girls! how dare they, I wish there were punjabi girls in the area I lived in, I would have a word and a half in their ears! I am sure I could talk these girls away from hating turbans. However, most rishtay won't go face-to-face if they know I have a beard. I would love to chat to these girls personally, I would cause some kinds of fireworks. I am already trying to create some fireworks on facebook and twitter against these girls, just watch this space!!! Singh Sabha Southall matrimonials Facebook group admin told me off for causing trouble http://www.facebook....ps/41021874437/ hahaha Anyway if sikh kuris aren;t gonna respect turbans, I am gonna cause trouble for them, mostly online cos theres very little chance of me meeting them in the area I live in, even though it is in west london, still.... I ain't the kinda person that uses emotional blackmail to support the turban, I use shock tactics and pure jatt agression, cos emotional blackmail sucks haha ! Also, I have dug myself into a deep hole because I am respecting my parents wished in only marrying a jatti. I could not commit the adharm of disrespecting my culture and my parents. And being adharmik is not what a guru ji's sikh practises! Uk jattis are the most stuck up against paghs than any other uk sikh girl. Ironic, as jatts see pagh as highly respected, and to have it removed by someone is punishable by death from a jatt. So uk sikh jattis have forgotten both sikh and jatt cultural thinking which highly supports the turban! Amyway California Sardar, I can pull goris from your areas just using the internet, so you should try it out. Your american sikh girls are less stuck up than the uk ones. However your girls might be more liberal, and I consider girls with exes as a no-go zone for anyone having a first marriage. Well when I say anyone, I really mean someone with annakh and sanskar, and cali sardar, if you're a jatt, you need those qualities. Don't fear, have confidence in yourself. Anyway all Guru jis khalsa should have these qualities!!! Dharmik thinking, and sanskar, izzat, laaj. These turban hating sikh kuris better watch out, I am gonna make them cry! lemme at em!!!! Here is a page I made to start off my campaign, more coming soon, please like my page for further updates! =) https://www.facebook...256338197727303
    1 point
  19. Sant Mahapursh Baba Jarnail Singh Bhinderanwale was a charismatic person. Do you really think he didn't realise that the line was in context of another 'special meaning'. I personally feel he was having a laugh and taking the mick. 'his level' was much much higher than yours which is obvious through your ego and disrespect. I personally don't agree with all this Niddar Singh bashing on here. Just his view does does not match up with yours, don't mean we do his nindya. If people have a problem with him they should go to his Akhara and have talks with him. I am sure he would be up for that. Better than doing nindya on a website.
    1 point
  20. http://www.kirtaneducation.com/
    1 point
  21. Didn't read all the posts in the thread (only a few), but I'd like to say you'd be pleasantly surprised to know a lot of people find the dastaar and Guru Roop attractive, even in this dark age of Kalyug. Not only attractive, there is also a sense of respect and looking up to (given the individual's character is in line) The dastaar is beautiful and the beard brings out the masculinity (rohb) in the person. Not everyone is a victim to the media's portrayal of beauty, even then Guru Roop is beautiful. Great vid!!
    1 point
  22. I thinks its Time that Gurdwaras Managment should incourage youth to defend the Sikh Nation by forming Gangs , Jathas or EDL types organisation. I know many would say we Asians should stick together as we did during riots . But i will trust a Gora then a <banned word filter activated>.
    1 point
  23. EDL, are a newer breed of english patriots who have taken a stance against Islamic extremism, hence we have a common interest as Sikhs are too victims of Islamic extremism. However, other far right groups such as BNP and National Front, skinheads etc are openly hostile against all ethnic groups including Sikhs. In the 70s, 80s and 90s, they probably used to target Sikhs more because the turban was seen an alien/foreign symbol, and therefore an object to be hated. The change in world events, ie Islamic extremism has taken Sikhs off the hook a little bit as muslims are now seen as the new enemy, and the focus of hate from far right groups. Ocassionally Sikh do still get attacked by racists who confuse Sikhs or Muslims, and some who dont really care if there is a difference as to them we are, 'the same old <banned word filter activated>'. The BNP, has more recently tried to join hands with Sikhs against Islamic extremists and tried to gain Sikh support in recent years. However, the more extreme far right groups such as NF are still more likely to spit on you if they see you, and if you go into one of their areas such as ilkeston, south derbyshire, there is a good chance that you will get verbal abuse or get your head kicked in.
    1 point
  24. i think theres a picture of a mosque on the left.
    1 point
  25. if this is the level of scientific understanding in the panth today then i'm just not going to bother anymore. and no, no one asked for a scientific answer.
    1 point
  26. slander is when you say something untrue about someone.........which i didnt do. and lol, nice try at being a psychiatrist. shame it isnt true though, otherwise i might have thought you had some intelligence behind your logic and conclusions. oh well. toodle-do sweetheart! :happy: what!?! so now your saying Guru ji doesnt like tractors and wants us to use our hands?!?!?! dont tell the pendus or we'll have more riots in the punjab.
    1 point
  27. No it doesnt. please show me where in gurbani it states that having an opinion and twisting worldly facts or using biased sources as reasons for it is the right thing to do. if not eating meat is part of Guru ji's rehat, then why are people like singstah creating threads like this? surely the fact that its part of Guru ji's rehat is justification enough, and doesnt need little 'pious' pets to try and give evidence for it. i think trying to justify Guru Ji with our own thoughts and ideas is beadbi - especially if the person doing it is a bit thick as they are trying to tarnish our Guru ji with their stupidity. but what about the musis, hindustanis and BNP? how will we deal with them then? will it involve using this new weapon you mentioned, the 'love machine'? :|
    1 point
  28. oh lol, i see what you did there. the admin cut the quote, and then you respond. what an asswhistle.
    1 point
  29. someone who has a set of beliefs and uses any piece of rubbish evidence to support it. at the same time they ignore any evidence (no matter how good) that contradicts their beliefs. lack of argument? the fact you quoted a piece of junk science shows your level of scientific understanding. tell me, can you make clothes with just your hands? no? so we are meant to walk around naked now? get a brain. as far as i know its impossible for humans to fly without using materials or equipment that are not part of the human body. so well done for just contradicting yourself so quickly. lol, well done for not answering the question. your logic is so retarded my stomach hurts from laughing. i thought my post was "too short"! lol. this isnt infant school mate, where writing 'more' than anyone else indicates some kind of intelligence. its called quality over quantity. lol you are clueless. you should give hardeep singh kohli a run for his money. you actually make me laugh. dont worry, your not the only one i've seen act like an id1ot. but admitting is the first step to recovery, so its good you've started on the path to recovery. oh no i did beadbi!!!! oh no an internet kid is going to moan at me!!! seriously, how is that an underestimate? do you want me to call guru nanak ji the half son of god or the prophet instead? or is that even not good enough? your just another ukguptkaur using the slander card as my posts crushed your argument. and what a rubbish response it was. you didnt manage to give any points against my science quote (too clever for you, eh?) and you did not respond to every part of my posts. now run along, your way out of your league boy.
    1 point
  30. the whole world?!?!?!? the whole bloody world?!?!?!?!?!? is that it?!?!?! in an existence that consists of planets upon planets, solar sytem after solar system, galaxy upon galaxy, (and possibly universes upon universes) i think the khalsa will eventually rule all mortal existence. and true gursikhs will be part of the immortal! right, now i'm off to build a star destroyer. :cool:
    1 point
  31. i wasnt trying to start a veg -v- meat argument, as i couldnt care less whether other sikhs eat meat or not. but what annoys me is that some sikhs will have an opinion, and due to insecurity and other personal reasons, they try and justify their beliefs as the right ones for everyone. so in order to do that they have 'conversations with the gurus' (see the other thread about nihang practices), or they will jump on the first piece of halfassed junk science they find. and that is exactly what christian and muslim fundamentalists do. and look how screwed up they are. we need to stop emulating the worst practices of people from other religions and think with logic. guru nanak ji was one of the most enlightened people in his era, and he would not stand for the stupid mentality that some people try and portray as 'god's proof'. and if you dont believe me, look at the fact no one has responded to my points.
    1 point
  32. dear god, these fundamentalists have dug in well. which will make it even more fun smoking the buggers out! firstly, i guess with the logic of this article, we are not meant to swim either, as god didnt make us to do that? is that why 10,000 sikhs lost their lives in the battle of Sobraon as they were trapped in a river? one british officer remarked that it was like shooting fish in a barrel. is this were your 'logic' leads the panth.... to a stupid death? secondly, i guess we're not meant to fly in planes either? thirdly, why did god make carnivores? read below:
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  33. i wonder what they were talking about.
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  34. yogi bhajan is pro-sant ji? thats news to me. though i havent seen any of these supposed pictures.
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  35. i dont like it. but i also want an explanation.
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  36. any professional time traveller would have managed to get back by now.
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  37. Really? Do you have any idea what the constitution of Banda Singh Bahadur's army was? Was the Hanuman Nishan Sahib carried by the Khalsa that was with Banda Singh, or the common Hindus who joined him from the villages or the men sent by the Rama and Tiloka? Maybe it was held by the Gujjars who were also with him? As Banda Singh also had some Muslims in his armies are we now to start flying green flags as a part of Sikhi? Is the Tegh of Guru Hargobind something that was specifically order to be made by the Guru? or was it a gift or even captured in battle? Does the orginal Guru Granth Sahib written by Bhai Gurdas have pictures of Kalika, Chandi etc? Do the Nishans depicted in the pictures of the Gurus above show Devi/Devtas or are they depicted in the images from the times of Maharaja Ranjit Singh, a time when Brahminism was at its height in Sikhi. Btw in this image you can see a Nihang but which samparda do the two people behind Guru Gobind Singh belong to? They don't look like Nihangs or Sewapanthis, Nirmalas and certainly not Udasis? Learn some critical analysis skills before posting blanket statements.
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  38. Lol - why don't you get a life! Who said there was anything wrong with going to the exhibition. That's not the problem - go to the exhibition, noone stopping you - I have been myself. The pics and artefacts they show are probably all genuine and really good. The problem, my friend is when they start telling you the history in the way they see it, i.e. it was all different to todays sikhi before the english raaj, blah blah... the way they see is flawed and what they are trying to do is manipulate people into thinking sikhi is something it is not! i.e worship hindu gods. Now you won't neccesarily pick this up unless you are aware - because their marketing and presentation is very good and hiding their real agenda, but enough to start putting doubts in peoples minds...
    0 points
  39. It's either the" Name and Shame" approach or" Emotional blackmail" approach, but at the moment nearly everyone seems to be chasing the same Sikh £1. Between having direct debits going to 3 TV channels, 2 radio stations, Gurdwaras threatening to close down, Gurdwara Building extensions, visiting Kirtinya, visiting Parcharaks, Sikh Projects etc some Committees also want us to become exclusive paying members. Perhaps it's time for us to realise that there might not be enough maya to go around! And some Gurdwaras/Sikh projects may eventually have to close down.
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  40. Lol why dont u lot just grow up. Theres nothing wrong with Going to an exhibition to see art and educate yourself about your history , forget about the bloody politics and the niddar rubbish. Just go there and look at the display. Too many narrow minded people here...
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  41. When once begins to reach higher stages of spirituality, other avataars and devtaa's come to get such a gursikh's darshan.
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  42. This is very, very true. Our darshan should be the dust of the feet of Akaal Purakh's saints to realize Waheguru.
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  43. alias ji As far as darshan is concerned, Gurmat preaches seeking darshan of Akal Purakh. Darshan of other avtars is not the goal of a Gursikh. I feel that the highest darshan is that of nirgun saroop of Akal Purakh. Through meditation on Gurbani and Naam one can achieve darshan of Akal Purakh. Maybe through meditation Gursikhs have had darshan of other avtars, prophets etc. However a Gursikh will not focus on these and continue to do bhagti to get darshan of their preetam piare . Only darshan of supreme avtar, supreme prophet, sri Akal Purakh can quench the thirst of a Gursikh. Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh
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  44. Banda Bahadurs armies were led into battle with a Nishaan Sahib with Hanumaan on it, was this also at the times of the Mahants and Hindu caretakers Sarpach? The tegha of Guru Hargobind Sahib which is kept by the Bidhi Chandis has Kaali standing over Shivji, im guessing Guru Hargobind must have been influenced by the Mahants? The old handwritten birs of Adi Guru Granth and Dasam Guru Granth have pictures of Kalika, Shiva, Adnarishwara, Chandi and all other Devi Devte on them, are these also the works of the Mahants and Hindus? Your arson type mentality is great, havent you learnt anything else apart from how to use a lighter?
    -1 points
  45. the new generation 3HO "sikhs" r a disgrace if it aint dancing doing bhangra putting pumpins over dastaar seats in darbar sahib gurus names given to the people that take amrit its Pictures of Guru Sahibs around MARY !!!! the list goes on If Yogi Bhajan was seeing this now................................................................. P.S theres a close up of this pic on his faceboo page and u can clearly see its a pic of Mary with the Gurus around her wat is ment to repersent ??? that Mary is the one and the Guru are around her !!!!
    -1 points
  46. I have just found some sound information on the present topic of the need of Vegetarian diet, which I am going to offer in the service of all the sangat. I clearly declare not a single word is mine, but I do totally agree with it. It is outstanding and mind blowing in it´s contents, and at the same time very clear and simple, direct to the point, without any zig zags, full of truth and humility. There are noble souls out there in this Bhavsagar, by good luck one comes to meet them, if not personally, or even through internet, as in this case, I pray to Wahiguru to bless this soul(the one whoever may have written it) with more grace, so that His love and message can reach every corner of this creation, of which we as souls are quite hungry. Here it goes. About Eating Meat: The controversy in the Khalsa Panth over being a vegetarian or non-vegetarian arose due to the difference in the interpretation of the word Kuthha - one of the four primary taboos or Cardinal Sins for the Sikhs. Before going into the depth of what "Kuthha' really means, it is imperative to consider the real importance of these taboos in Sikhism. It is an undisputed fact that any Sikh who commits any one of these four taboos becomes an apostate. That means he is no longer a Sikh, i.e., he is automatically de-linked and ex-communicated from the Khalsa Brotherhood, even though he may be considered a Sikh by society. As a natural corollary, he loses the Grace of the Satguru without which no progress can be made in achieving the Bliss of Naam-Simran. The four great taboos prescribed for the Sikhs are, thus, of fundamental importance. Being of such fundamental importance, the four taboos cannot, obviously, be based upon any temporary contingency of the prevailing circumstances. They must have their own solid basis and foundation, and must be conducive to spiritual upliftment through Naam-Simran, which occupies the pivotal position in the whole edifice of Sikhism. Otherwise, they will lose their applicability in the changed circumstances, especially when their role in the spiritual progress is doubtful or even negative. It is explicit in Gurbani that the principles of Gurmat are unchangeable and of permanent standing: "Gurmatat Mat Achal Hai Chalaey Na Sakey Koey" (pg. 548) [The Instruction of the Guru is Unshakable. None can change it.] Obviously, therefore, these four basic taboos formulated by the Tenth Guru must have their own solid base which would stand the stress of all times. The word Kuthha is generally (or erroneously) taken to mean HaIaaI meat i.e. "Meat obtained by the Muslim method of slaying the animal, slowly severing the main blood artery of the throat of the animal, while reciting religious formulae, the main object of slaughtering in this manner being a sacrifice to God to expiate the sins of the slaughterer and its flesh as food being only a secondary object..." The Jhatka method has been described as killing the animal with one stroke of the weapon without exciting fear glands secreting poisons into its bloodstream and without causing harniftil psychic waves to emanate from the animal's mind." The origin and basis of Halaal method of slaying animals by Muslims may have been sacrificial. However, by the time of the Sikh Gurus, it had just become a "Muslim method" without any consideration of its sacrificial origin. In fact, a separate class of professionals, called butchers, had emerged with the sole purpose of slaying the animals in this way. Thus, through the employment of butchers, the original idea of slaughtering the animal as a "sacrifice to God to expiate the sins of the slaughterer" had ceased to exist. The original practice had become professionalized and commercialized and remains so even now. So, according to the generally prevailing idea as advocated by many Sikh scholars, the main reason for imposing this taboo of not eating Halaal meat is not that it is sacrificial or even religious. Rather this taboo had been imposed primarily to liberate the Sikhs from mental slavery of the then rulers of the Muslim faith who had banned by law the slaying of animals by any method other than Halaal. If this interpretation is accepted, then the following points arise: (i) With the changed times now, when there is no longer such coercion from any quarter, there should be no need for continuing this taboo in the list of the four taboos because the reason for the imposition of this taboo no longer exists. (ii) It also implies that the four taboos which, have been declared by Satguru himself as basic and of fundamental importance, may not necessarily be conducive to spiritual enhancement of the soul through Naam-Simran; their objective being merely to create a spirit of moral, and, according to some, physical strength to face the unjust and tyrannical rule of the then rulers. Obviously, this cannot be the situation as the main and the only objective of the Satguru was and is to implant the Holy Naam firmly in the minds of the Sikhs through Holy Amrit (Khande-Ki.Pahul). One cannot imagine the All knowing Satguru imposing a taboo of such basic importance which has no relationship with, or which does not help his Sikhs in the achievement of the Spiritual Bliss. (iii) If we accept this position of a taboo being imposed only to serve the conditions prevailing at a particular time, then we provide a pretext to the so-called Modern Sikhs who consider that the keeping of Keshas is no longer necessary in the changed times. They also contend that Kirpan is now of little significance in this atomic age. They openly assert that religion must change with the changing times. The spirit of Sikhism, according to them, lies only within the Sikhs and it has nothing to do with the outward appearance or baanaa. They further contend that the then prevailing circumstances made the necessity of keeping Sikhs unique and easily distinguishable. In the changed circumstances that necessity no longer exists. Thus, accepting the above background of the Kuthha will lead to total destruction of the edifice of Sikhism. (iv) Moreover, how would we classify fish? Is it HaIaal or Jhatka? (v) Meat-eating Sikh brethren advocate that the only touchstone to be used in deciding whether meat should be eaten or refrained from, is whether it creates trouble in the body and fills the mind with evil. If there is no such ill effect then there is no harm in eating it. In the support of this contention, they cite the following couplet from Gurbani: "Baba Hore Khanna Khushi Khuaar Jit Khaadey Tan Peeriay, Man Mey Chaley Vikaar" (pg. 196) [O Baba! All other foods (except the Naam) create trouble in the body and fill the mind with evil.] Evidently the foregoing couplet is a mis-quotation in this context because herein Guru Sahib is comparing all material foods with the Divine Food (i.e. Naam-Simran) and is decrying the former. The word HORE is very crucial in this couplet.It does not mean ANY food but any OTHER food, i.e., any food other than NAAM. In the absence of the Divine Food (Naam), all material foods will sicken the body as well as the soul. The very idea of eating meat fills the mind with evil making it aggressive and a partner in taking the life of an innocent creature. For this very reason, almost all of the well-known spiritually enlightened Gursikhs of the past and present have been and are shunning meat and allied non-vegetarian foods. Such foods are not conducive to spiritual development and Naam.Simran and, therefore, the all-knowing Satguru could not approve them. (vi) In two Hukam Naamaas of Sri Guru Hargobind Sahib there are clear cut instructions prohibiting the eating of meat, fish, etc. The actual words used are "Maas machhi de nerrey nahin jawnaa." when Guru Nanak in his sixth form prohibits Sikhs's from eating flesh in such a strong language, how can he, in his tenth form, issue instructions absolutely contrary to and in negation of his own earlier instructions? (vii) Mohsin Fani (1615-70), the well known historian and a contemporary of Sri Guru Hargobind Sahib, writes in his work DABISTAN-E- MAZAHIB as follows: "Having prohibited his disciples to drink wine and eat pork, he (Nanak) himself abstained from eating flesh and ordered not to hurt any living being. After him this precept was neglected by his followers; but Aijun Mal, one of the substitutes of his Faith, renewed the prohibition to eat flesh and said: This has not been approved by Nanak" What clear cut evidence against eating flesh and drinking wine in Sikhism! (viii) Sahib Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji's "UPDESH" to Bhai Daya Singh Ji which is mentioned in "SUDHARAM MARAG GRANTH", and also found written in some old handwritten volumes of Sri Guru Granth Sahib: "One who does not: (a) Steal, (b) Commit adultery, © Slander anyone, (d) Gamble, (e) Eat meat or drink wine, will be liberated in this very life (i.e. Jeewan Mukt)" (ix). It is also asserted that bravery is connected with eating animal flesh. The assertion is baseless. In fact, bravery is not connected with brute body force. Real bravery comes out of the spirit of sacrifice for the Truth and arises from the state of mind. The very prevalent words Charhdi Kala among the Sikhs refer to the Charhdi Kala of the spirit. The Sikh history is full of such instances where Sikhs who were hungry for days together defeated the tyrant Mughal forces whose meat eating habits were legendary. (x) There is no difference in either taste or nutritive content of meat obtained through Jhatka or Halaal methods. Meat remains meat, whatever may be the method of slaying the animal. It is a mockery of the august and everlasting holy fundamental principles of Gurmat to attach such a fundamental importance to meat obtained from a particular method of slaying the animal, that its eating by a Sikh makes him an apostate, and that obtained from another method of slaying becomes fully acceptable. Either meat is allowed or is prohibited totally. There can be no mid-way. It is rather strange that many 'modern' and 'intellectual' Sikhs, who are often questioning the rationale of such edicts as keeping of Kirpan or Keshas and even the particular type of Kachhehra, generally do not question the rationale of Jhatka and Halaal distinction in respect of meat. Obviously, it is the generally preferred taste of the tongue that keeps them mum on this issue. These are only a few of the inconsistencies and contradictions in accepting the interpretation of Kuthha to mean HalaaI type of meat. Now let us consider as to what is the true meaning of the word Kuthha Etymologically, the word "Kuthha" (killed) is a past participle which has been derived from the root "Kohna" which means to slay or kill. This word does not mean to slay slowly or according to the Muslim method. In fact, to my knowledge, this word has never been used in the Muslim literature or in their general language to refer to "Halaal" meat. There are number of similarly derived words, e.g. "Muthha," "Dhatthha," etc. Thus, the word "Kuthha" literally means meat obtained by killing animals with any sharp weapon irrespective of whether any holy hymns are read at that time or not. In fact, reading of an holy hymns on this most cruel and heartless moment, is itself a highly sacrilegious act. For instance if one accepts a bribe or commits a theft while reciting holy hymns and these claims that because of his having read holy hymns during that act it no longer remains a crime, is only befooling himself. Now consider this from another angle. For Halal meat, the animal is killed while reciting Qalima - the holy Mantra of the Muslims praising God in Arabic language. For obtaining Jhatka meat, they say Sat Sri Akal, which is also praise of God but in Punjabi language. Meat obtained while reciting praise of God in Arabic language is Haiaal (sacred) for a Muslim and is Haraam (unsacred) for a Sikh. Likewise meat obtained while reciting praise of God in Punjabi language is HaIaaI (sacred) for a Sikh and Haraam (unsacred) for a Muslim. By implication, meat being the common factor in both cases, Qalima is Haraam for a Sikh and Sat Sri Akal is Haraam for a Muslim. If both Qalima and Sat Sri Akal are praises of God in different languages, neither of them is Haraam. In fact, Haraam is the selfish trend of the mind of the meat eaters. S. Kapur Singh rightly points out "Sikhism is not a religion of confusion and tomfoolery. The Sikh Way of Life is based upon the highest principle of Divinity -with the ultimate goal of merging one's soul (Atma) with the Ultimate Soul (Param-Atma) In Gurbani the word 'Kuthha" as well as 'Kohna' have been used at a number of places in this sense: "Paap Karendar Sarpar Muthey. Ajraeel Pharrey Phar KUTHHEY" (pg. 1019) The sinner will certainly be ruined or destroyed. The angel of death will seize and kill them. (Here the word "kuthhey" means simply killing, not killing by Haiaal) "Bed Parhey Mukh Mitthee Baani Jeeaan KUHAT Na Sangey Paraanee" (pg. 201) He (Pandit) recites the Vedas very sweetly, but he does not hesitate to kill life. "Abhakhya Ka Kuthha Bakra Khanaa Choukay Upar Kisey Na Jaanaa" (pg. 472) They eat the meat obtained while uttering the unspeakable word (referring to Qalima of the Muslims which the Hindus considered as unspeakable) and allow none to enter their kitchen square. The supporters of the word Kuthha to mean Halaal meat very often bank upon the above cited couplet to support their contention. They ascribe it to mean the meat obtained by slaying goats while uttering Qalima, which is the Muslim way of slaughtering animals. If the word Kuthha were to mean HaIaai meat, the use of the word abhakhya is superfluous. The sentence should have been simply Kuthha Khaanaa to mean the eating of the HaIaaI meat. The very fact that the word Kuthha has been qualified with the adjective abhakhya kaa means that Kuthha refers to simple meat of the killed animal, irrespective of the method of slaying the animal; and while qualifying meat to mean Haiaai, the words abhakhya kaa had to be particularly prefixed to convey that sense. Almost all the renowned commentators and translators of Sri Guru Granth Sahib, e.g., Bhai Sahib Vir Singh, Professor Sahib Singh, S. Manmohan Singh, etc., have interpreted this couplet in this way. It is thus clear that the word Kuthha means simply meat of the killed animal and does not go into the detail of how the animal is killed. Like so many other adulterations committed by the anti-Sikhs in Gurmat Rahit Maryada, this interpretation of the word Kuthha to mean HaiaaI meat has also been initiated and popularized by those very anti- Sikhs, in their efforts to destroy the roots of the new faith in order to decrease its efficacy and create doubts and dissensions in the Panth. Our brothers have unconsciously fallen in their trap. The only hymn in the whole of Sri Guru Granth Sahib that is specifically cited (by meat-eaters) in support of eating meat is the hymn of Sahib Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji in the // of Raag Malhar on pages 1289-90 beginning with the couplet: "Maas Maas Kar Moorakh Jhaghrrey. Gian dhian Nahin Jaaney. Kaun Maas Kaun Saag Kahaavey Kis Mah Paap Samaaney" (pg. 1289-1290) Only the fool quarrels over the question of eating or not eating of the meat. He does not have the True Wisdom. Without True Wisdom or Meditation, he harps on which is flesh and which is not flesh and which food is sinful and which is not. A deeper study of the whole hymn brings out: i. Herein, Guru Sahib is addressing a Vaishnav Pandit who believes that he can achieve his spiritual goal only by avoiding meat as food and not trying to obtain the true wisdom through meditation. He has stressed that only avoiding meat will not lead one to the achievement of Spiritual Bliss if one does not do Naam-Simran. This equally applies to all, including non-meat-eating Sikhs. ii. It relates to the flesh or meat in general and not to any particular type of flesh - whether prepared by Halaal or Jhatka method. The Sikh supporters of flesh eating do not accept at all the intake of all types of meat, but according to them, only Jhatka meat is permissible and HaIaal is totally prohibited. In other words, what does the term "Kuthha" denote? iii. The flesh of the mother's womb wherein the human body is born, the flesh of the mother's breasts which feed the infant, the flesh of the tongue, ears, mouth, etc., used for perception of various senses of the body, the flesh in the form of wife and off-springs referred to in the Shabad, is flesh no doubt and one cannot escape it, but is it the flesh to be eaten as food by the humans? Does the love for this type of flesh involve any cruelty or slaughter of living bodies? Obviously, the Shabad has a deeper meaning telling Vaishnav pandits that merely escaping from the flesh does not take one anywhere. Nor can anyone get rid of the flesh (i.e., attainment of salvation from the cycle of birth and death) by his own futile efforts without the Grace of the True Guru. One very well known Sikh writer, in his book on Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji's life, while claiming that the above hymn supports meat eating, recommends that those Sikhs who seek spiritual bliss through Naam Simran should shun it! Well, devoid of Naam Simran Sikhism is reduced to naught. At this point it would be worth mentioning two well known anecdotes from the life of Sahib Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji in this respect: i.During his visit to Lahore, Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji happened to stay in the neighbourhood of a big slaughter house. In the ambrosial hours of the early morning, he heard loud shrills and cries of the animals being butchered there. Then, in the daytime, he saw the population addicted to vices connected with meat, wine and women. He was so moved by this sight that he exclaimed: "Lahore shahar zahar kahar sawa pahar" (pg. 1412) God's curse is upon the city of Lahore for a quarter of the day* ii. Duni Chand was holding a grand annual feast to feed the Brahmins in celebration of Saraadh ceremony for the peace of his departed father's soul. Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji told him that his father had taken the body of a wolf and was starving on the nearby river bank at that time. Duni Chand immediately went there and saw the starving wolf. On seeing his son, the wolf died and thus spoke to him from his Astral or luminous body: "In human body when I was nearing death, I smelt the flavor of meat being cooked in the neighbouring house and felt an ardent desire for it. I died in the same state of mind. That is why I was given the body of a wolf so that I could fulfil my last desire in human life." Gurbani also says: "Jit Laago Man Baasna, Ant Saaee Pragtaani" (pg. 267) [The desire to which the mind is attached, becomes manifest in the end.] This brings out clearly the thinking of Sahib Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji in this respect. Sri Guru Granth Sahib prohibits eating of animal flesh in clearcut and unambiguous language in a number of places: "Jee Badhoh So Dharam Kar Thaapoh,Adharam Kaho Kat Bhai. Anpas Ko Munwar Kar Thaapoh, Kaa Ko Kaho Kasaaee. (pg. 1103) You kill animals and call it religion (Rahit); then what indeed is irreligion (Kurahit)? Even then you consider yourself as a sage of sages; then whom to call a butcher? "Bed Kateb Kaho Mat Jhoothhay, Jhoothhaa Jo Na Bichaarey. Jo Sabh Meh Ek Khudai Kahat Ho,To Kio Murghi Maarey" (pg. 1350) Do not call various religious texts false. False is one who gives no thought to their contents. If you consider God is in all, then why do you slaughter the chicken (i.e., life?) "Rojaa Dharey, Manaavey Mlah, Svaadat Jee Sanghaarey. Aapaa Deldi Avar Nahin Dekhey,Kaahey Kow Jhakh Maarey" (pg. 1375) You keep fasts (i.e., religious acts) to appease God. At the same time you slay life for your relish. This utter selfishness is nothing but empty or nonsensical talk. "Kabir Jee Jo Maareh Jor Kar,Kaahtey Heh Ju Halaal. Daftar Daee Jab Kaadh Hai, Hoegaa Kaun Havaal" (pg. 1375) Whosoever slays life by force and call it sanctified; What will be his fate when he will be called to account for it in His Court? "Kabir Bhaang, Mach liii Surapaan Jo Jo Praanee Khahey. Tirath, Barat, Nem Kiaye Te Sabhay Rasaatal Jahey" (pg. 1376) Whosoever eats flesh, fish, etc. and takes wine and hemp, all his religious acts will go to waste. "Kabir Khoob Khaana Khichri, Ja Meh Amrit Lon Heraa Rotee Kaarney Galaa Kataavey Kon" (pg. 1374) Blessed is the simple food of rice mixed with salt; Who would risk his head to be slain hereafter, for the meat one eats here? It is thus clear from the foregoing that the word Kuthha used in the Sikh Code of Conduct does not refer to Halaal or sacrificial meat at all, but refers to meat and allied products as a whole. It means simply to slay or cut the animal whatever may be the method used for the purpose. The use of the word in the same sense at a number of places in Gurbani brings out this point beyond any shadow of a doubt. Accordingly, eating flesh in general (and not only Halaal) is totally prohibited for the Sikhs and is one of the four Cardinal Sins enunciated in the Sikh Code of Conduct. It is a great travesty of the factual position to assert that, tIn the Sikh Doctrine, therefore, there is no religious injunction for or against meat eating; it is a matter of individual choice and discretion, a most sensible principle. All the Rahits (Do's) and Kurahits (Don'ts or taboos) are of fundamental importance in Sikhism. These are a pre-condition for one's being accepted for baptism or taking of Amrit which means nothing but Naam: "Amrit Naam Parmesar Tera Jo Simray So Jeevey" (pg. 616) [God; Amrit is nothing but your Naam and he alone lives who meditates or contemplates on it.] Amrit Har Har Naam Hay Meri Jindareeay Amrit Gurmat Paaey Ram" (pg. 538) [The Naam Divine is Amrit; and is obtained through the Guru's Instruction.]
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