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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApEWuOtsyqg

Just took another look at the topic heading which is: "Say No to Guru's Pictures" and there are many replies in this thread which clearly states to take off pictures off the wall regardless whether they worship them or not. My question to those veer: Is it ok for folks to have pictures of guru sahibs on the wall if they are not worshipping? If you or other got the urge to say "Yes" to that question then wouldn't it be same to ask vismaad and other film makers to stop using purtaan gursikh sikh characters such as chottay sahibzaaday, bhai taru singh and so on? Maybe i misunderstood you or others but make it clear whether you oppose of having guru jees picture in home of folks who do picture worship OR you just plainly want to see NO pictures of guru sahib jees in any home, gurdwara at all? Regarding those ppl who says praying in front of photo/statue is okay then I humbly request them is to go back and do fresh start in learning sikh dharam.

Wow was nice reading your translation penji, Raaj.kharega.khalsa. So talented.

Written by Bhai Sarbjit Singh Why didn’t Sant Bhindranwale wave his hands in the air? I recall watching very rare footage of Sant Bhindranwale traveling to Bombay to address the congregation there, the scene was astounding. Arriving with a convoy of jeeps and trucks, flanked by numerous motorcycles on either side, with the police struggling to control the crowd as they gushed forward to catch a glimpse of him. The jeeps then stop at their destination, Sant rises from his seat, and is bestowed with thousands of flowers thrown at him, it looked as if a Prince had returned to the victorious Kingdom. This is Bombay we are talking about, the heartbeat of the Hindu community. If this was the reaction in Bombay, we can only begin to imagine what Sant Bhindranwale’s presence had done for the people of Punjab. Yet some ignorant, uninformed oblivious individuals claim that Sant Bhindranwale did not enjoy any popular support, and headed a marginal movement that had no place in society. More than this, many even go to lengths to say that Operation Bluestar, the personification of decades of fascism, could have been avoided if Sant Bhindranwale had come out of the Akal Takht when the Indian tanks, planes and troops were ready to roll. The distressing thing is that this view is commonplace in many homes, Gurdware, intellectual discussions, news reports and radio debates. Why? Because we are told by people who have a vested interest in suppressing peoples thought so that they continue to accept their down-trodden status. It is imperative for the Indian government to slander Sant Bhindranwale, because it was his spirit that initiated the dynamic surge towards freedom by the people of Punjab during the late Seventies to the early Nineties. However, we must not become targets of the Indian government and lose sight of reality by internalizing the view that Bluestar was initiated and could have been prevented by the ‘obstinate’ Sant Bhindranwale. From a personal perspective, the need for this article to answer the title question has been long overdue. I have been itching to write this piece, since it is one of the most prominent questions ever asked when discussing Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale and Operation Bluestar, but rarely receives an adequate reply. This is one question that some people (including many ‘Sikhs’) ask when attempting to malign the character of Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale, and in turn justify the genocide that occurred in the precincts of Harimander Sahib in 1984. Below are just a selection of prevalent views that are crudely used by people with tunnel vision, and the type of thinking that just barely hits the surface. ‘ He may have been a saint, but if he’d come out, the army would never have attacked’ ‘He was the reason for all the death and destruction, his stubbornness desecrated the Akal Takht’ ‘He could have saved thousands’ ‘He just wanted to carve his name into the history books’ For all those who fall into this school of thought, here is a response: The assault, which the Sikhs themselves call the Ghallughara (Holocaust) was not only envisioned and rehearsed in advance, meticulously and in total secrecy (Ram Narayan Kumar,The Ghalughara: Operation Blue Star - A Retrospect)* , it also aimed at obtaining maximum number of Sikh victims, largely devout pilgrims unconnected with the political agitation. The facts should speak for themselves. (* Eminent writer and analyst, author of The Sikh Struggle and The Sikh Unrest & The Indian State, Ajanta Books International, Delhi, 1997. He lives mostly in Vienna and London. Excerpted from the author’s monopraph submitted to Green College, Oxford, UK (Reuter Foundation Paper 128))  There was no warrant for Sant Bhindranwale’s arrest. There was no judicial verdict of guilt against any of the 11 accused who were on the government ‘hit list’. All weapons carried by Sant Bhindranwale and his entourage were licensed by the Indian government, so on what basis was the attack planned and coordinated? Sant Bhindranwale was not engaged in any criminal activity. Even after his arrest in 1982, no concrete charges were leveled against him. His only crime was that he lived a puritan way of life, and possessed the charisma to espouse everyone else to follow suit.  Sant Bhindranwale declared weeks before the attack that an army invasion of the Golden Temple will not be tolerated, and repelled by any means necessary.  The army shot first, drew first blood on May 31st, when the Central Reserve Police Force fired at the roof of the Langar Hall where daily congregations took place. Therefore Sant Bhindranwale had no choice but to defend its sanctity.  Perhaps the most striking of all is that the Indian army had been practicing on a model of the Golden Temple and seeking expertise from the London based SAS in 1983, almost a year before Sant Bhindranwlae had moved into the Golden Temple. Clearly the attack would have taken place whether Sant Bhindranwlae was there or not, he just became an ideal excuse. Striking a blow at the heart of a whole community, to the place where they receive their strength and and inspiration was the real motive, Sant Bhindranwale could not let that strike take place. Dr. J. M. Pettigrew, a Scottish anthropologist, who spent much time in Punjab doing independent research on the Punjab problem, writes in "The Sikhs of the Punjab" "The initial crime (Operation Bluestar) was calibrated and indeed had been planned for a year beforehand. The Darbar Sahib complex, a place of a great beauty, the spiritual and political centre of the Sikh way of life and of the Sikhs, as a whole, their historic home through years of invasion from the West, had its sanctity shattered. The army went into Darbar Sahib not to eliminate a political figure or a political movement but to suppress the culture of a people, to attack their heart, to strike a blow at their spirit and self-confidence". Evidently, the sole purpose of Operation Bluestar was to destroy the Sikh morale, and force them into submission. If the army really only wanted to flush out those who ‘wrote and sanctioned death warrants’, then why did they choose to invade the holiest shrine on a highly religious day, when pilgrims were arriving from ever nook and corner of the globe? Punjab was littered with government intelligence throughout its anti-Sikh policies in Punjab, are we really lead to believe that the government failed to realise that it was a holy day?  Why were 40 other historic shrines attacked? Was Sant Bhindranwale sitting in all of them? Did the people of Punjab miraculously clone 40 and put them in each one, which warranted the assult against them? Or was the army simply hell bent on destroying the psyche of the Sikhs.  Sikhs have always fought battles in a defensive position in lieu of an offencive position i.e from a fort. Guru Gobind Singh Ji fought from the fort of Chamkaur Sahib, so how can anyone say this tactic was naïve and self destructive? Sikhism does not divorce saintly characteristics from those held by a warrior, the two are intertwined and create the ideal human eulogized by Guru Granth Sahib. Thus if the precincts of the holy Harimander Sahib had to be turned into a military fortress then no blasphemy or irreligious act had been committed, since it was spurred by self-preservation.  The fact remains that the majority of deaths occurred AFTER the Akal Takht and the Golden Temple had been militarily secured and occupied, so why the bloodbath? Based on this, if Sant Bhindranwale had come out, are we really supposed to believe that the hell unleashed on the Golden Temple would have been prevented? A military operation, which human rights activists have denounced as "Genocide in practice." The statement of Devinder Duggal, custodian of the Sikh library at the Golden Temple testified that: ‘During those three days, more than 4000 people must have been killed….90% were pilgrims…children were asking for water again and again. The elders were suppressing their thirst to meet the needs of the children. A stage came when we just put a small amount of water to our lips to save ourselves.’ (Investigation Team : A. Rao, A. Ghose, S. Bhattacharya, T. Ahuja, N.D.Pancholi, Operation Bluestar : The untold story) A.R. Darshi, a Hindu Secretary and Magistrate to the Government of Punjab stated that: ‘I saw these buildings about two weeks after the terrific bombardment which were raised to the ground. I was shocked to see the extent of cruelty and barbarity committed by the army on their own people.’ (AR Darshi, The Gallant Defender (Punjab, 2001) p. 112.)  The attack was injudicious, avoidable, unnecessary and unjustifiable. Despite the presence of the Police Border Security Force (BSF), Army, Central Reserve Police Force (CRPF), Research Analysis Wing (RAW), the Third Agency, Indian Intelligence Service (IIS) and Black Cat Commandoes, National Security Guard, Special Frontier Force, the President’s Rule (which has the power to suspend the right to life for anyone merely suspected of ‘terrorism’), as well as the easily accessible Harimander Sahib complex and the tapping of all its phones, the Indian Government used the same weapons and men that it had used in the Indo-Pak wars just to get 11 men out of a small temple complex, the holiest Sikh shrine on earth.  The number of murders that occurred in Rajasthan were many times higher than in Punjab. Why didn’t vijayanta battle tanks, howitzer helicopters, machine fire, shell, mortar with a personnel of 180, 000 troops led by a control room in Delhi march into Rajasthan instead of Amritsar? Evidently, it was not a law and order problem, it was a religious one.  The government of India had been given red alert by Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, and Asia Watch, so why should we dispute Sant Bhindranwale’s decision to combat them?  The Sikh nation repeatedly affirmed that they wish to remain in India, but only if they were granted human and civil rights. The most vocal being Sant Bhindranwale, who declared that ‘we will reside in India, but only if you treat us as your brothers.’ This a very cooperative settlement from a man dubbed as the most fanatical and uncompromising hard-liner India has ever seen.  General Brar, one of the four chosen to lead, co-ordinate and execute the attack visited the deputy commissioner of Amritsar in April 1984, and conveyed his intentions of attacking the Golden Temple. The deputy commissioner warned that although he loathed the Sant, he will not be defeated with ease. Brar, arrogantly remarked that ‘when tanks rattle and planes roar, even generals quack in their boots’. Are you not proud that Sant Bhindranwale proved him wrong? ‘He fought back like a tiger’ said one political commentator.  If Sant Bhindranwale had walked out waving his hands in the air, Sikh across the globe would have held their heads in shame and dismay. The one man who was leading the Panth, who had awoken a sleeping lion and spearheaded a revolution, epitomized the saint soldier of Guru Granth Sahib, come out like a coward? Sant Bhindranwale knew that the reputation, honour and pride of the turban was now resting on his shoulders, he had no choice but to fight. There was more than Sant Bhindranwale’s pride at stake, all of ours depended on it.  This may seem controversial, but a lot of Sikhs would rather the Akal Takht come under attack than to see a foreign power invade and infiltrate it by appointing puppets who would ultimately kill the Panth through irrelevant ‘hukamname’ that create disunity and internal bickering. The Akal Takht is bricks and mortar, marble and gold, what it symbolizes is crucial to Sikhs, and that is independence and freedom of thought, action, speech and existence. We cannot let a foreign power take these away from us, particularly when they have overtly admitted that they want to destroy Sikhism root, especially those who have sworn to protect it (i.e Sant Bhindranwale, Bhai Amrik Singh…etc) can ever submit to a foreign ruler. Like any other icon, Sant Bhindranwale’s impeccable and pure way of life has been tarnished by many groups, organizations and individuals. The sole purpose for this is simple, to dampen and quell any spirits that may be inspired by him. Nevertheless, what these people cannot conceal is that Sant Bhindranwale lived his life carrying the pain of every Sikh in India on his shoulders, and with it showed that Sikhs as a people were as formidable as their forefathers. Regardless of the whitewash to tarnish this lion’s name, his roar will echo in the annals of world history. Sarbjit Singh ‘Soothing winds will once again blow in Panjab, the Kesri Nishan Sahib will be hoisted, flying high’

The answer is very clear. THE IMAGINARY PICTURES OF OUR GURUS HAVE NO PLACE IN SIKHI.

im not going to argue about the existence of god or not. people have their own beliefs on that matter and no amount or forum talk will persaude them to change their beliefs from one side to another. my questions are more to do with religion and the beliefs and ideas of people. i have always been fascinated with what people think and their viewpoints. i like to listen to all views wether i agree with them or not, i find it very interesting. i also like to ask questions to clarify what they are saying but i dont mean to cause any offence.

It's the same at India isn't it? Sri darbar sahib, second floor has Akhand paat sahibs and straight below open space is Kirtan constantly. Sri akaal takht sahib is same, all the bungeh have Akhand paat sahibs, but all day Kirtan is heard and on loud speakers. At other asthaans and takhts it's exactly the same. It may be manmat for you guys, but not necessarily for the panth

thank you for the sugestion waheguru ji and cool down.............now back to the point......as everyone knows that Bhai Gurdas ji's vaaran is the kunji of Guru Granth Sahib per Guru Arjan Dev ji's bachans (now if you reject this fact as well, better read the jeewans of Guru Arjan Dev ji and Bhai Gurdas ji......and that's what you have to do it yourself - reading part) This is what Bhai sahib has to say about Bhagat Dhanna ji and Pundit Tarlochan..... ਬਾਮ੍ਹਣ ਪੂਜੈ ਦੇਵਤੇ ਧੰਨਾ ਗਊ ਚਰਾਵਣ ਆਵੈ। ਧੰਨੈ ਡਿਠਾ ਚਲਿਤੁ ਏਹੁ ਪੁਛੈ ਬਾਮ੍ਹਣੁ ਆਖਿ ਸੁਣਾਵੈ। ਠਾਕੁਰ ਦੀ ਸੇਵਾ ਕਰੈ ਜੋ ਇਛੈ ਸੋਈ ਫਲੁ ਪਾਵੈ। ਧੰਨਾ ਕਰਦਾ ਜੋਦੜੀ ਮੈ ਭਿ ਦੇਹ ਇਕ ਜੇ ਤੁਧੁ ਭਾਵੈ। ਪਥਰੁ ਇਕ ਲਪੇਟਿ ਕਰਿ ਦੇ ਧੰਨੈ ਨੋ ਗੈਲ ਛੁਡਾਵੈ। ਠਾਕੁਰ ਨੋ ਨ੍ਹਾਵਾਲਿਕੈ ਛਾਹਿ ਰੋਟੀ ਲੈ ਭੋਗੁ ਚੜ੍ਹਾਵੈ। ਹਥਿ ਜੋੜਿ ਮਿਨਤਾਂ ਕਰੈ ਪੈਰੀਂ ਪੈ ਪੈ ਬਹੁਤ ਮਨਾਵੈ। ਹਉਂ ਭੀ ਮੁਹੁ ਨ ਜੁਠਾਲਸਾਂ ਤੂ ਰੁਠਾ ਮੈ ਕਿਹੁ ਨ ਸੁਖਾਵੈ। ਗੋਸਾਈ ਪਰਤਖਿ ਹੋਇ ਰੋਟੀ ਖਾਇ ਛਾਹਿ ਮੁਹਿ ਲਾਵੈ। ਭੋਲਾ ਭਾਉ ਗੋਬਿੰਦੁ ਮਿਲਾਵੈ ॥੧੩॥ If this doesn't satify POP(Picture/Pathar Opposing Party)....then you won't be satisfied at all... Gud luck

Cynthia Mehmood!!!

Arghhhhh i tried and tried soooo00000ooooo hard to make my routine to wake up during amritvela.. (at least 5am) but i couldn't do it... :umm: (even having three alarm clock around me) :umm: .. Is it only me who is having sooo hard time to wake up @ amritvela? Rite now my bani time is like.. Nitneem before 12 pm (most of tha time i do it in the skool library) and rehraas before 12am .. Any tips/tricks for this lazy singh will be appreciated :St:

Jay Hum Ko Parmesar Uchar Hai Tay Sabh Narak Kund Mah Par Hai Mo Ko Daas Tavan Kaa Jaano Yaa Mai Bhed Na Runch Pachhaano Mai Ho Param Purkh Ko Daasa Dekhan Aayo Jagat Tamaasa Jo Prabh Jagat Kahaa so Kahiho Mirta lok tay mon na rahiho Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib in Bachitar Natak Dhan Dhan Baba Nand Singh Ji's bachan on this path that it's a test for Gursikhs, if they pass or fail. If they are afraid of hell, they'll say that Guru ji is not God. If they love Guru ji, "jo tau prem khelan ka chao, sir dhar tali gali meri aao", they won't afraid hell, they will without any fear and hesitation anounce that their Guru is God. It is Guru sahib's humility to teach us that how to be nimana and humble and warn us that we should not believe anyone who says he/she is God And only waheguru can tell the path to reach "waheguru". All Guru's one jot "Dharan gagan nav khand meh jot savroopee rahiyo bhar. bhan Mathura kachh bhaid nahee gur Arjun Partakh Har"

Thank you ..... Really good .....

Agree with the first part about sant ji, but think the second part of attack by China is yet to come .......I can be wrong....but that's what the China is doing now...trying to enter India by various means.....and Indian govt doing nothing....

Dear Bhenji I did a bit of a loose translation for a friend a couple of weeks ago. P.S. guys, anyone's welcome to correct me if I have misinterpreted anything. Jin ke kaarne Panth kio parkaash. I believe Guru ji is referring to Sri Akaal Purakh ji and saying that due to whom this Panth was started Oat takaawan javeinge singh unaan ke pas. Singhs will go to Him for seeking refuge. Darip mulak ki jaan ke khaveinge aap.(don't understand the word Darip) tabi krop hohe parmatma jhagra chale Harmandir mein aan. Parmaatma will then get 'angry' and there will be a battle in Harmandar Saheb. Begane bahot mareinge singh Guru ki shaan. Lots of the 'others' (begaane) will die but Guru's Singh will be in 'shaan' (pride?)---in a positive way. Tabi ek khalsa pragat howe Kila banavei Harimandar ko aan. Then a 'Khalsa' will rise and will make Harmandar Saheb a fort. (supposedly Sant Bhindranwale). Raaj chalsi randi ka faujaan charei Harmandar mein. The rule at that time will be of a widow (supposedly Indira Gandhi) and soldiers will attack Harmandar Saheb. Khur bhije ghore ka harmandir mein aan. The foot of a horse will be wet when it would enter Harmandar Saheb (with all the bloodshed). dat jaega khalsa ghor bipat ke baad. After a very hard time the Khalsa will get focused. khuar hoe sab milenge singh bipat main aan. Desperate Singhs in very hard times will come together. tabe Majha Malwa Duaba dukhi hove sabh graam. At that time, the areas of Majha, Duaba and Malwa will be very desperate (dukhi) Khand Khanda chare tab Amritsar Palteshwar ke dhaam. (indicates of an attack on Amritsar...but I don't quite understand the words fully) Tabi Singh fauj chare ataari mein aan. At that time will the Singh Fauj will reach Ataari. Amritsar pahunchkar itna khoon bahaave. They will shed so much blood in Amritsar... Ghore ka tang khoon mein bhij jaave. That a horse's leg will be wet in blood. Tab jalandhar ludhpur ko lut kare seher ambala loot. They will loot the cities of Jalandhar, Ambala and Ludhiana. dhaaee lakh khalsa hove shaheed sattar lakh hindu mar jaave. 200,000 of the Khalsa will be shaheed and 700,000 Hindus will die. tabi roos cheen hind mein char aave. Then Russia and China will attack Hindustan. ghor yudh mach kar sattar crore se staaraan crorre bach jaave. In a fierce battle, the population will be down from 700 million to 170 million. dilli takhat pe beh jaave guru ki fauj. Guru Ki Fauj will sit on the throne of Delhi. tabe sabe amrit paan karein. Then everyone will partake Amrit. tabe chalein jo panth ke jam ka baan na paave. Then the Panth will start 'that won't get the arrows of the jamdoot' (not very sure about the one in apostrophe) nanga bhukha mangta koi na jave langar sabe khave. There will be no one without clothes, food, no beggars...Everyone will get Langar. tabi kaljug main satjug hosi aan. That is when there will be satjug in Kaljug.

ok

The 'big bad Singh's from India are full of their own hidden 5hite to be able to be able to say anything in my opinion. Like casteism and corruption isn't endemic in our own monopolised institutes. Like low down politics doesn't have a strong hold on even our highest institutes in Panjab. A person has to be one seriously deranged, denialist to avoid seeing the rot in our own state of affairs. Sometimes I just feel like pointing fingers at people like 3Ho is a tactic used by apnay to avoid facing up to their own kartootaan. Are Panjabi Sikhs any less motivated by money and status - personally I think not. That doesn't justify anything wrong being done by 3Ho but it does put an onus on us to sort our own crap out before we haughtily survey others - no? As for sitting down like brothers and sisters and sorting things out amicably - brother!! Are you serious?? Panjabi Sikhs haven't even learned to do that amongst themselves, let alone with others as a thousand and one incidents, major and minor will testify.

Sikhism is a way of life with which we can make our consciousness developed so much we can be absorbed in sumpreme consciousness "Jis te upje tis hi jaise"(be like, from which u have been created, a rough translation) Guru Nanak Sahib ji in sidh gosht.

even me... experience it.. when is listen the shabads which i understand,,,,,, Pawane mai pawan na samaya joti mai jot ral jaya......... Ni m tera m tera sache pathsha rakhle garib jaan ke........ n especially- Deh shiva :D This is coz u actually feel the depth of gurbani n wat they want us to make understand,,,,,,,

Sikhi and science both deal with uncovering truths about the universe, but from different angles. If science doesn't match up with Sikhi, then it is due to a fundamental misunderstanding of one of the two. IS THERE GOD??? Debate has gone on long enough. Dharmic faiths don't believe in a guy in the sky who is God. We believe in a universal energy and consciousness. This is the Supreme Brahman. We are all a part of this consciousness. There is no "I" as we are a part of the universe. Scientific Backing The measurement problem in quantum physics states that an atom appears as a wave when not being observed, and a particle when it is observed. Conclusion: The universe manifests itself as it is being observed. We are all observing the same thing, therefore we are all part of the same conscious. Creativity therefore derives from an infinitely abstract pool of consciousness that is waiting to be tapped into.THIS IS GOD. CONQUER YOUR MIND AND YOU WILL REACH GOD (the state of Sach Khand) RENCARNATION Death is the death of your consciousness. Medically speaking, someone is legally dead when they don't have any brain function. When you die your conscious returns to this infinite pool of creativity, where new things are manifested. TRYING TO OBSERVE GOD DIRECTLY Cannot be done. We don't have the equipment (our senses). Some people will only be satisfied if they can see and touch God. It cannot be done. You cannot look directly at a solar eclipse. But you can deduce that it is there, through indirect means. PEOPLE COMING ON HERE TO GIVE US A LECTURE ON WHY SCIENCE IS BETTER THAN RELIGION, NEITHER UNDERSTAND SCIENCE NOR SIKHISM.

Einstein ( thanks Google )

ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਰੋਮਿ ਰੋਮਿ ਹਰਿ ਧਿਆਵੈ ॥

That's what I find difficult. Our own people complaining about others doing what we are. In Panjabi we say 'sweep under your own manji before you start pointing fingers'. Given our own lamentable failings, exactly what position do we have to condemn others?

seems like no body is going to give you an answer according to ur question. impossible things happen in the house of Sri Guru Nanak Dev Sahib Ji Maharaj... if you have trust in Maharaj and you believe that a prayer can help the deceased person then go for it and dnt wait. Suitables baanies for any kind of prayer (ardas) but not limited to these baanies are Mool Mantar, Jap Ji Sahib, Chaupayi Sahib, Sukhmani Sahib and Waheguru Naam Simran with proper ardas and your personal ardas in the ardas. Millions of ardas roopi shabads in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji which makes your shardha strong and ur belief firm and helps you and OTHERS (whom you do ardas for) with any kind of prayer you have in your mind. It does not matter in how many days also i ddnt get ur question about how many days.

This happened to me two times in my life. I know exactly what you are talking about. It happened to me a very long time ago, i was just a kid. I also looked at my hand and tripped out. Its almost like you are separate from your body, and you are "perceiving" as an outsider. Really weird...never happened to me since then (about 10-15 years ago)

read seh kanayiaa by Baba Harnam Singh Jee raampur kehraa wale - they had the vision 7-8 years before 1984 era,since they were close with Sant Bindranwale - therefore sant jee knew what was going to happen

Yes it does, but then we need to go back to the Kaaba sakhi. In what direction should I bow and in which direction should I point my feet, where Vaheguru is not?

What i feel is i can feel my inner person looking thru my eyes and just saying what is this BS! When i look at my hands i go what the hell is going on theres more to us than this physical world ! Like i feel my soul telling me sumthing! I hope u guys understand what i mean!

According to sikh rehat, a reading of the Guru Granth Sahib ji should be commenced within 10 days after the funeral. All the paths should be done within this time and after 10 days there should be no more paaths for the funeral. Kirtan may also be performed every night within those 10 days if the family desires. A paath is required after all funerals for sikhs. And within this 10 days is also a requirement!

Now I know we (and we should) have Guru Sahibaan, Bhagats, Shaheeds and several Gurmukh pyaare Brahmgyanis, Sants, Sant-Sipahis as our role models. Just wanted to know people's thoughts and opinions on non-Sikh role models. Relax, this isn't going to mean you're a "bad" Sikh. I personally feel (and I could be wrong) that the more role models you have, the more your chances of being a better human being as you would want to emulate the ideals they (your role models) stand for. Here are mine (in no particular order) Rabindranath Tagore Alaama Iqbal Subhash Chandra Bose Buddha Raja Janak Socrates Narayanan Krishnan (http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?/topic/69507-start-giving-see-the-joy-of-giving/) Ram Narayan Kumar Jhalkari Bai (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jhalkari_Bai) Dr. B.R. Ambedkar Anne Frank Rosa Parks Oprah Winfrey Abraham Lincoln Nelson Mandela Martin Luther King Malcolm X.... .....just to name a few... Please do share if you have any non-Sikh role models. You cannot name the Bhagat Sahibaan whose Bani is included in Sahib Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee Maharaj, or other non-Sikh shardhaalus of Guru Sahib, or any non-Sikh Shaheed :D . They are our role models by default :D , I am asking for additional ones.

He was my hero when I was a kid.

the professor student thing is brought up again and again. its an urban myth, does anyone have any proof it actually took place? it is using a classic technique whereby the position that you want to discredit makes silly and pointless statements and the position that you wish to uphold has the sensible response. it is classic debating practice.

So... Having pictures at home means that person is doing idol (photo) worship regardless of whether he is actually doing it or not?? This certainly does not make sense. I guess if such thing makes sense then maybe we need to take down all pictures of shaheeds from langar halls and probably stop and pull out production of animated movies and so on.. Oh wait that is what musalman are doing foe centuries. Yes pooja to material/product is plain wrong but don't mix or link families having photos in same category as with rare ppl who who do anti gurmat pooja stuff. Tose who still believes purewal calendar makes sense, read this: http://sikhsangat.org/2012/purewal-calendar-created-to-divide-or-to-unite-sikhs/ Johal sahib, I still did not get your reply on how purewal uncle fixed dates on his nanakshahi calendar...

ਬਾਮ੍ਹਣੁ ਪੂਜੈ ਦੇਵਤੇ ਧੰਨਾ ਗਊ ਚਰਾਵਣਿ ਆਵੈ । baamhanu poojai dayvatay dhannaa gaoo charaavani aavai| A brahman would worship gods (in the form of stone idols) where Dhanna used to graze his cow. ਧੰਨੈ ਡਿਠਾ ਚਲਿਤੁ ਏਹੁ ਪੂਛੈ ਬਾਮ੍ਹਣੁ ਆਖਿ ਸੁਣਾਵੈ । dhannai ditdaa chalitu ayhu poochhai baamhanu aakhi sunaavai| On seeing his worship, Dhanna asked the brahman what he was doing. ਠਾਕੁਰ ਦੀ ਸੇਵਾ ਕਰੇ ਜੋ ਇਛੈ ਸੋਈ ਫਲੁ ਪਾਵੈ । tdaakur dee sayvaa karay jo ichhai soee dhalu paavai| “Service to the Thakur (God) gives the desired fruit,” replied the brahman. ਧੰਨਾ ਕਰਦਾ ਜੋਦੜੀ ਮੈ ਭਿ ਦੇਹ ਇਕ ਜੇ ਤੁਧੁ ਭਾਵੈ । dhannaa karadaa jodarhee mai bhi dayh ik jay tudhu bhaavai| Dhanna requested, “O brahman, if you agree kindly give one to me.” ਪਥਰੁ ਇਕੁ ਲਪੇਟਿ ਕਰਿ ਦੇ ਧੰਨੈ ਨੋ ਗੈਲ ਛੁਡਾਵੈ । padaru iku|apayti kari day dhannai no gail chhudaavai| The brahman rolled a stone, gave it to Dhanna and thus got rid of him. ਠਾਕੁਰ ਨੋ ਨ੍ਹਾਵਾਲਿ ਕੈ ਛਾਹਿ ਰੋਟੀ ਲੈ ਭੋਗੁ ਚੜ੍ਹਾਵੈ । tdaakur no nhaavaali kai chhaahi rotee|ai bhogu charhhaavai| Dhanna bathed the Thakur and offered him bread and buttermilk. ਹਥਿ ਜੋੜਿ ਮਿਨਤਿ ਕਰੈ ਪੈਰੀ ਪੈ ਪੈ ਬਹੁਤੁ ਮਨਾਵੈ । hadi jorhi minati karai pairee pai pai bahutu manaavai| With folded hands and falling at the feet of the stone he begged for his service to be accepted. ਹਉ ਭੀ ਮੁਹੁ ਨ ਜੁਠਾਲਸਾਂ ਤੂ ਰੁਠਾ ਮੈ ਕਿਹੁ ਨ ਸੁਖਾਵੈ । hau bhee muhu n jutdaalasaan too rutdaa mai kihu n sukhaavai| Dhanna said, “I will also not eat because how can I be happy if you are annoyed.” ਗੋਸਾਈ ਪਰਤਖਿ ਹੋਇ ਰੋਟੀ ਖਾਹਿ ਛਾਹਿ ਮੁਹਿ ਲਾਵੈ । gosaaee paratakhi hoi rotee khaahi chhaahi muhi|aavai| (Seeing his true and loving devotion) God was forced to appear and eat his bread and buttermilk. ਭੋਲਾ ਭਾਉ ਗੋਬਿੰਦੁ ਮਿਲਾਵੈ ॥੧੩॥ bholaa bhaau gobindu milaavai ॥13॥ In fact, innocence like that of Dhanna makes the sight of the Lord available. The Brahman that gave Dhanna the statue was eating the offerings himself. Dhanna was innocent and pure of heart, so when the statue didn't eat the food Dhanna offered it, then Dhanna decided not to eat either. The Lord was pleased by Dhanna's innocence, and ate the food. Thus, Dhanna's innocence was spared. We do the same thing with children. Instead of telling them that someone has died, we tell them that they have gone on a long vacation. It is to spare their innocence. Eventually though, the children grow up and learn the truth. Dhanna also matured and learned the truth. Guru Nanak dev ji, Raag Bihaagraa, Pannaa 556 hi(n)dhoo moolae bhoolae akhuttee jaa(n)hee || The Hindus have forgotten the Primal Lord; they are going the wrong way. naaradh kehiaa s pooj karaa(n)hee || a(n)dhhae gu(n)gae a(n)dhh a(n)dhhaar || As Naarad instructed them, they are worshipping idols. They are blind and mute, the blindest of the blind. paathhar lae poojehi mugadhh gavaar || The ignorant fools pick up stones and worship them. ouhi jaa aap ddubae thum kehaa tharanehaar ||2|| But when those stones themselves sink, who will carry you across? ||2||

Alan: ....I mean, Jesus was from the Middle East. Lynn: Was he? Jesus wasn’t brown. Alan: Lynn, let’s not have that discussion now.

"Guru ki moorat mann meh dhyaan" Bring the image of Guru in your awareness. For that, we need some images as a tool. Some people use it as a meditative tool, its all about how to raise your consciousness. For some it helps increase their devotion and love for the guru. We are all students at various spiritual stages, some need more gross tools than others. I definitely need the beautiful and lovely saroop of my father Guru Gobind Singh ji from Hazoor Sahib. Guru jis face is so beautiful, the most beautiful eyes ever seen, sohnni kalgi prakash, and a beautiful aura. That image of my father invokes devotion in me and thousand others. If you were not supposed to admire the images or pictures of Guru jis, then why did Bhai Nand Lal ji wrote so intricately about the single details of Guru Gobind Singh Jis beautiful hair. By missionaries's logic their body would be an idol so you cannot praise the beauty of the Guru. Where do you draw the line? My vichar is ,to each their own, if an image helps someone feel connected then let him be that way . That person is not hurting you in any way..he is only hurting your ego by not confining to your standards of sikhi. If you dont like pictures, then no problem, stop preaching to others against it and stop confusing the new sangat. Just let it be, chill, do your bhagti, and move on. How would you translate the pankti " Gur ki moorat mann meh dhyaan"? And how can one do dhyan of Nirgun saroop ?

I hope she gets better. If you can, get someone to do Sukhmani Sahib near her so she can listen, or she can listen to a CD of it as well.

Big mistake by harbajan Singh then, maybe he should be told the panthic patrol on sikh sangat disagrees with him simply doing a request to singers not to base all there songs on kaam and drugs. What world do we live in, I thought it was a positive message.

Buddha, socrates and all the other greek philosophy peepz

Here is spiritual and philanthropic list not in any particular order Mahatama Budda Krishan Ji Ram Chandar Ji Jesus Imam Ali Adi Sankarcharya Yamunacharya Ramanuj Shiv Ji/Parvarti Hanuman Ji Lakhsman Sita Mira Bhai Rumi Arjun Bulleh Shah Sarmad Fakir Dara Suku Rishi Balmik Dalai Lama Thich Quang Duc Swami ram dev Rani Tara Raja Janak Ramana Maharishi Anandmurti Guruma Paramahansa Yogananda Pope John Paul (amazing sakhi of him going to jail to meet his assassain and forgiving him) Here is the philanthropic and great humantarian/freedom fighters list Nelson Mandela Martin Lurther King Malcolm X Che Guvera Thich Quang Duc Mother teresa Lady Diana Bill Gates Melinda Gates George Clooney Richar Gere Arundhati roy Amir Khan

A lot of hero-worship of rich business-men in this thread. Typical Panjabis.... :giggle:

'Shastar Man' I hope you put as much effort in your nitnem as you do in trying to get Niddar Singh kicked out of all the Gurdwara's.

When the Akal Takhat Jathedars were Nihungs the panth actually got somewhere. This modern SGPC is just a joke. The office of Akal Takhat is high and mighty. Most preferably you give it to a warrior. :fight: :ninjacombo: :shoot: :snipershoot:

the akalis did give thier support.....but they turned into cowards when the time came to face the government.. they didnt want to shed thier own blood....gupt meeting was held with indira gandhi weeks prior, they said get rid of bhinderwale and thata the only way we can return to forefront of punjabi politics... watch from 3:20 ONWARDS>>> they werent true GURISKHS AT HEART....no sikhi lifestyle.....that y they betrayed the panth

In reality Akalis supported her. All that they were doing was an act to smash Sant Ji's popularity.

They had created a fake model of the Sri Harmandir Sahib complex in Dehradun where the army rehearsed the attack for some 7 months or so, maybe more. 42 other Gurdwara Sahibs were attacked as well, where there were no Jujharoo Singhs or firearms, only innocent Sikhs who were targeted. This question is put forward by several Indian apologists every now and then "Vy did bin-drun-vaale bring arms inside the complex?"..."Vy did bin-drun-vaale come and start residing there?"...Simple reason, as mentioned earlier, he wanted to stay there closer to Guru Sahib, weapons were brought because when you know your house is going to be attacked you don't wait, you prepare. Also, in Sikh history whenever a historic morcha is initiated, its always from Sri Akal Takht Sahib (correct me if I am wrong), and this is where the Dharam Yudh morcha was started from.

WaheGuru ji ka Khalsa !! WaheGuru ji ki fateh !! Veerji eh sab akal purak daa pana warteya hoiya aa read karo Guru Gobind sikgh ji di , bhavik wani http://i.imgbox.com/abduaAAO.jpg

It all depends on whose side of the story you read. India is bound to demonize him but they have many inconsistencies in their narrative. At times they say he was in Darbar Sahib from November 1983 at others in beginning of June. They lie. He was in the Akal Takhat which is the Sikh parliament. He and the Akalis were in there planning for advancement of Dharam Yudh Morcha. Indira however wanted to win the votes by portraying Sikhs as violent and communal. Hence she and the para military forces started murdering civilians as well as Sant Ji's men in Punjab to garner a reaction from him. They also used the media to whitewash their acts and say Sant Ji was murdering Hindus. It soon became apparent one way or another they were going to attack Sikhs. And how do you do that? You take a page out of Abdali's book and attack Darbar Sahib. Sant Ji and his men had piled sandbags and constructed a few fortifications, eyewitness accounts attest to their good behavior. The attack however was deliberate. Of course General Brar claims the militants released a few "hostages" but why are those people not speaking out for him? Especially since so many are speaking out for Sant Ji? In the spirit of Baba Gurbax Singh Ji's actions Sant Ji decided to defend Darbar Sahib. Here are a few things to consider regarding your info: 1.) Why did the Indian state let them stockpile weapons for three years? 2.) Who provided these weapons? 3.) Despite having so many weapons why was the army there for a week? Why not longer? 4.) Why only weapons? Why not food? 5.) The police and army had so many opportunities to arrest Sant Ji. Why didn't they? 6.) If really so many weapons had been stockpiled where is the proof? Photographs etc. 7.) Three years is a long time for any weaponry to be lying idle. And so many people went to visit Akal Takhat and Darbar Sahib. Why didn't anyone speak out then? Why not the jathedars, sevadars and sangat? Why not the Akalis themselves who were always suing for a peaceful situation? 8.) Sant Ji in none of his speeches indicates this. Why? He could easily have used it as a lever to make the Indian state listen to him. Regarding senseless I advice that you undertake research from a Sikh perspective and you will really see the reality behind senseless. Brother Bijla Singh's article will be helpful if you read Punjabi. This is the first time I am hearing about something three years prior. The Indian state cannot be that lazy. And please do read about wars and Harmandir Sahib. Whats more more than 20 other gurudwaras were attacked that day and government is mum over them. That too in face of the fact that there were no terrorists in those gurudwaras how do you explain that? On September 1981 Sant Ji offered voluntary arrest and was detained for 25 days. If weapons really had been stockpiled in the time you give Indian state would not have let him go. And this was officially before he entered Nanak Niwas in Darbar Sahib. Even the d.c. of Punjab at the time stated that arresting Bhindranwale would not be hard, even if it meant going in Darbar Sahib. And then you have General S.K. Sinha who refused to lead the attack. There are also many other factors to consider. Books on Sant Ji are written with many goals in mind. Indian one is simple, to demonize him. And Damdami Taksal is the name of the Sikh university and it is located at Mehta Chowk Gurudwara Gurdarshan Prakash.

you would have got your answers if you had done some research or simple reading into modern sikh history. Sant Jarnail Singh was in the Golden Temple as part of the Dharam Yudh morcha, as were all the Akali Leaders. They were there for a specific purpose. As events unfolded, it became impossible for Sant Ji to leave, and even further down the line, it was wiser that he hadnt left, as indira had already made up her mind to attack the Sikhs with the indian ravan sena. As for the Golden Temple not being a place for fighting wars, i would really recommend that you read Sikh history.

Sat Sangat Ji, I used to have problems also when i tried at the age of around 26/27...used to make excuses when the alarm went off...and even if i got up, i would fall asleep very quickly. Don't feel bad about this...now when i look back it was all part of the evolution process...making the effort, failing, trying again...your love for God/Guru gets stronger...keep doing your ardaas. When the time is right, you'll be doing it with no problems whatseover. Now (at the age of 33) i have been doing Daily Amrity Vela Naam Simran for 2.5 hours for the past 3 months....and i dont even use an alarm clock. I do an ardaas before sleep asking Guru Ji to gently wake me up when 'HE' wants me to do Simran and MArit Vela....and you know what, you get woken up at the right time...for me i get to sleep at about 10.30/11pm, and get genty woken at around 2.30/3am everynight. I couldnt sit for longer than 30 minutes doing simran, now 2.5 hours goes very quickly ... never give up...everytime we fall, we come back stronger the next time. Do not bother with alarm clocks...All is God, there is no Ego in this...only He exists and He will wake you up when its the best time. And don't feel upset if on the odd day you dont get woken up...sometimes God knows when you need your sleep more. Through your Naam Simran, and Guru Ji's grace...when you start to get your own personal experience of God, you'll never ever look back again