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Why wait 10 years ?? I am already at war with my mind and the 5 chor. It seems to be a constant battle where I kill and hamper one of the 5 chor and then the other starts to erupt in full force. My mind sword is forever striking them down one by one but my sword warrior is also tied down with this knotted rope behind me to a wall called maya. There seems to be instances when the knot loosens and it is usually for those moments when ALL 5 chor demons have been struck down before they erupt again. I also find that the knot seems to loosen more when I strike that big bad chor called 'Ahankar', but it is also the same demon chor that keeps tricking me and pretending it is down before getting up and surprising me head on !! This is what gurbani tells me about ''Mann jeeteh Jag jeet'' I have to keep at this constant war whilst going through the world ocean.

Wow, I was expecting a really deep question about Sikh immigrants, and Singh came out with a question about cheese! Fair play to that! :lol2:

I just wanted to let you know this is first time i reported your post to mod as i find it extremely insulting, but mostly off topic provoking statement intended to invoke an emotional angry reaction in totally different off-topic thread (what that has to do with the thread- dating a white girl) and besides in the past you have repeatedly attacked baba sri chand maharaj by your vile disgusting comments and with your one dimensional thinking/mindset....i will wait until their action regarding this post..just few seconds ago i be honest but i was swearing at you for first time on the computer for insulting son of guru nanak dev nirankar and bhramgyani, same bhramgyani- baba sri chand maharaj who recited ashtpadi 17th shalok- aad sach jugad sach hai bhi sach nanak hosi bhi sach on request of sri guru arjan dev ji.. but now i had to calm myself and come in terms as its all maharaj leela so right now i am doing ardas for you infront of maharaj so maharaj forgives you for doing nindya of bhramgyani.

I'm afraid you have been fooled !! The above family are not Sikhs, but using a Sikh disguise ! Please don't come to the conclusion that Sikhs are like this,... far from it !!

Where do you live? You may try going to a Gurdwara Sahib in your local vicinity and tell your ordeal to some devout Sikhs over there. If they are legit and genuine, your culprit better have a good health insurance. We do NOT tolerate ANY dishonor towards ANY sister, irrespective of religion/caste/nationality. His dad asked him to have fun? Make sure the whole damn family is shamed! Bloody scum of the earth!

Samooh Khalsa Panth nu Dhann Dhann Sahib Sri Guru Har Krishan Patshah Jee de Aagaman Divas Diyaan Beant Vadhaiyaan!!!!!

After the protests in Birmingham today, I found a quote on the Birmingham Mail website which I was confused about. It read; 'I'm actually quite baffled that there's a 'Sikh Division' of EDL' Then I found this... https://www.facebook.com/EDLSikhs What do people make of this? Are people already aware that this existed?

A ‘Must Watch’ Clip: .

Haha no Veerji but originally family from southern Ludhiana district which adjoins Fatehgarh Sahib and Sangrur districts in which Longowal + Tohra villages are. Obviously Longowal village was originally called Kambohwal and is the famous ancestral village of Bhai Mani Singh and Bhai Dayala Ji. The important thing is that we analyse history fairly rather than with the Congress GOI terrorists accusing the victims of terrorism (Sikhs) of doing terrorism. Similarly, Sant Ji did not become shaheed for the sake of Congress and nor was Longowal Ji an anti-Sikh traitor as both Sants operated in tandem to get ASR instituted. Sadly, Congress have put out a lot of anti-Longowal propaganda out there which many 90's born youngsters have believed without question or simple analysis. I personally don't support the 1985 accord but I understand why Longowal signed given what had happened in 1984 and the Genocide of Sikhs Congress had planned.

Remember waheguru dont need you. Every human being, every living being needs waheguru. If you think wanting success in life is as simple as doing ardaas and praying to waheguru to give you what you need in life then your mistaken brother. Waheguru CHOSES himself who to help n a certain way and what is good for them. How many times in gurbani does it say even bad times are gifts from waheguru because they teach us who in charge and when times are good we forget our lord our creator so good and bad times never forget your source of life your source of everything you have in life that others around the world dont have (ie war torn areas of the world, orphans, starving people, badly disabled people, etc) be grateful to your lord for what he has given you.

yes veer it must be seva time...thanks

I know how that feels it sounds like it's sewa time

MiddxSingh Religion itself is a belief system. Just like you say" Udham, Naam simran with love and concentration" are part of Sikh belief system. I am saying the same thing just in different words. I am an Amritdahari believing in Namm Simran (Mool Mantar and GurMantar). That without Guru Kirpa the mergence of GOD is not possible.

N30 singh sahib, if you believe that all one universal oneness type thinking and there is no personal god (the way you keep saying sikhi does not believe in a personal god as christianty) then I feel you haven't read much bani but instead have listened/read to vihcaar which has all this is one consious, god is impersonal type thinking. Anyone who has read a little bani can clearly see the loving personal relationship between jeev and waheguru i.e. the countless personal loving bentis to waheguru ji in bani, the love-struck praising of waheguru ji in bani. All the tuks which say god is everywhere and in everything is true, but do not twist this to mean the chair you're sitting on is waheguru. Waheguru is secretly mixed in creation just as you get butter from milk, but this does not make creation god. This is an example of the dangerous extreme left mindset thinking in panth. Anyone who thinks otherwise is spiritualy lost as per sikhi. I don't think I need to post the countless gurbani tuks to make my point. Just do a few random searches on sikhitothemax!

I think these days the understanding of oneness has become confused due to so many fake babas misusing it to make their cheley beleive they are GOD and take advantage of them the thing the cheley don't realise is that if their baba is god then they are God aswell...... so many people kind of steer clear of it as they perceive it to be egotistical to see oneself as God but in the Gurus eyes it is the ultimate humility, as it is the ultimate sacrifice of the ego, for the self to cease to exist - so only God is left....... sireeraag || Sree Raag: qohI mohI mohI qohI AMqru kYsw ] thohee mohee mohee thohee a(n)thar kaisaa || You are me, and I am You-what is the difference between us? knk kitk jl qrMg jYsw ]1] kanak kattik jal thara(n)g jaisaa ||1|| We are like gold and the bracelet, or water and the waves. ||1|| jau pY hm n pwp krMqw Ahy Anµqw ] jo pai ham n paap kara(n)thaa ahae ana(n)thaa || If I did not commit any sins, O Infinite Lord, piqq pwvn nwmu kYsy huMqw ]1] rhwau ] pathith paavan naam kaisae hu(n)thaa ||1|| rehaao || how would You have acquired the name, 'Redeemer of sinners'? ||1||Pause|| qum@ ju nwiek AwChu AMqrjwmI ] thumh j naaeik aashhahu a(n)tharajaamee || You are my Master, the Inner-knower, Searcher of hearts. pRB qy jnu jwnIjY jn qy suAwmI ]2] prabh thae jan jaaneejai jan thae suaamee ||2|| The servant is known by his God, and the Lord and Master is known by His servant. ||2|| srIru AwrwDY mo kau bIcwru dyhU ] sareer aaraadhhai mo ko beechaar dhaehoo || Grant me the wisdom to worship and adore You with my body. rivdws sm dl smJwvY koaU ]3] ravidhaas sam dhal samajhaavai kooo ||3|| O Ravi Daas, one who understands that the Lord is equally in all, is very rare. ||3|| ------------------------------------

Does people know Allah does come in gurbani few times, as attribute of of akaal purkh ? So to hear edl say- f**k allah what does that show?

New events and occasions always bring the best out of people, but over time majority don't get the same good feeling they did the first time and they lose faith in the whole service, task, marriage, relationship, etc. Those brought up in western culture are always changing their minds and they don't see anything wrong with breaking ties and starting new ones just to keep themselves happy. Happiness is the goal for western raised people and not contentment. Read up on Sikh history and sakhis that are told about devotion to Satguru. Sri Chand failed so did Laskhmi das, along with other children of the Gurus. Listen to the sakhi of Baba Buddha ji rejecting Satguru's wife's request and why he rejected it. A smart businessman does not hand over his key to his child after one successful week. Long hours, sleepless nights, many stressful weeks, and many mistakes the child learns from gets him the golden ticket to a multi-million dollar operation. Four years of hard work need to be put in before achieving a university degree. Even afterwards the most difficult job is presenting yourself as a professional before a panel of interviewers that throw the most difficult questions from ethics to proper conduct.

In my opinion its really important to not start following a group in its hate against Islam just because they flatter Sikhs and Sikhi as Tommy does... Some people need to ask themselves the question... Do you hate Islam or just Islamic extremists?! People say EDL and Tommy hate just Islamic extremism but his actions and words say something else he speaks against the Koran as if hes a scolar of it and calls it barbaric.... aren't we told in Gurbani not to speak bad of Islam and the Koran? You guys really wanna cheer people that mock Islam/koran and belief system of so many Sufi sants and Muslims who were blessed my our Gurus?!?!? I love Islam and the people who follow it peacefully, I dont know where you guys have been bought up that you have so much hate for a faith group but I have some of the nicest, humblest Muslim friends and colleagues.... didn't Guru Hargobind Singh Ji build a mosque for Muslims!?... how would our Gurus feel if EDL turned up outside Mosques built by our Gurus and shouted "who the f**k is allah?" and "Muhammed is a peado"? What would people like Pir Buddha Shah say? I understand that the EDL have reacted to Islamic extremism but I just don't get the mentality on the forum from fellow Sikhs whereby supporting and justifying the EDL has become accepetable... should some of you on this forum find it acceptable to shout slogans of intolerance and hate against Islam and smash up Muslim shops etc then I just dont understand how thats compatible with Sikhi!? Can someone provide me a historical context where our forefathers have launched a premtive strike on a perceived threat or agaisnt Muslims practising Islam?! In my opinion, any group that attacks places of worship and religious beliefs is wrong! Guru Tegh Bahadur taught us to defend another's faith even if you don't believe it! I hope we can all put this into practice...

from whom veerji????

Thanks for the replies everyone, really appreciate it Most of you told me to stay with her, I think you're right, and especially after this weekend, I'm sure she's worth keeping around. Our Gurdwara celebrated Miri Piri today (Sunday), the Gurdwara has been packed since Friday evening. I always go with my buddies to do sewa and help out. I took her with me for the first time on Friday, she did matha tekh in front of Guru Ji, got parshad and sat down to listen to keertan with me. She comes from a non-practicing Christian family, she herself believes in God but not the Church. She is spiritual and has experience meditating. So she closed her eyes and let herself be carried away by the keertan, even though she couldn't understand it, she said it was extremely peaceful and easy to relax listening to it. We went down to the langar hall after that. My friends were there, uncles and aunties I know were too. I introduced her and everyone was really nice, obviously since Miri Piri was only 2 days away it was really busy, lots of Sangat and a ton of work to do. Some of the aunties asked her if she wanted to learn how to make roti, she said yes and they took her with them to make roti for Sangat. Me and the guys were outside unloaidng supplies and setting up for the festival. We all had langar together later on, and after that stayed to clean up. There were only a few of us and the kitchen was a mess, the langar hall was messed up as well. I was washing those huge pots and pans we make daal in with my friends in the back, she was cleaning up the smaller things with the other girls in the front. All of us were there past midnight, but it's always a ton of fun and this time was no different, we joke around and have fun, and when the work is done, warm up some milk, grab ladoos and a few other sweets and sit around talking about the day. She met all my Gurdwara friends that day and had a ton of fun cleaning up, most chicks would't be into that stuff but she really enjoyed it, even though it was her first time, everyone really took a liking to her and wants her to come back. We were there Saturday and Sunday too. Sunday she learned about the concept of Miri and Piri, the life and times of Sri Guru HarGobind Sahib Ji, I can't believe how into Sikh history she is. We spent the entire day at the Gurdwara, yes we got stared at by some of the older uncles and aunties who did not know us and were casuals at the Gurdwara, but no one said anything bad and it was all good. The icing on the cake? I saw a girl from Uni who told me that she only dates cut-haired guys at the Miri Piri mela. I waved at her when I saw her and she waved back. We are still friends, I didn't take it personally when she turned me down so we still talk. I went over and started chatting, then my GF shows up after a few minutes. I introduce her and the Uni girls' jaw drops to the floor lol. She is visibly startled, but keeps it together and continues talking normally to me, glancing over at the GF every now and then. Then we leave to somewhere else in the Gurdwara, and I would occasionally look over at the girl from Uni and she would be staring at us from across the room. I was with my friends, the GF invited a few of her non-Sikh friends, all of us were having the time of our lives, and this girl was staring at us until she left to go home. Absolutely priceless hahaha I hope everyone else had a wonderful Miri Piri weekend as well! Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!

We already pay a form of unofficial Jizya because the people who want to bomb the country tend to be on the dole and it is our taxes that pay for it. Our taxes also pay for the extra security after an attack. A new form of Jizya now will be that after the attack on Mosques, they will now demand that the government pay for CCTV cameras to be installed in each Mosque!

I am pretty calm..the point was trying to make if you think there is an issue, be part of solution instead of whinning its quite simple. Gyani sher singh ji said the same thing, most of khalistani here talks big, whine and complain but when i ask them to go to india and make a difference..they have nothing to say. Also puratan singhs used to talk less and try their best to do their part- they were also very happy and content all the time as they were always in bhana of akaal purkh and gursikhi is all about celebrating spiritual life and do parchar and rest is left to akaal purkh hakum. I still don't understand what are the complaints? you are already mentioned you are not suggesting to pick up the sword..then what are the complaints about? Can you please list them in concise manner ? What things you are not happy with leader- in this case- dhandrianwale- as this thread is about him, and what would you like to see? and what are "you" doing about it to make it happen? are you walking the talk - correct the things you want in punjab or be another typical arm chair critic?

Also no one said anything about going to the sword. But it seems like you feeling froggy here and want someone to calm you down. I won`t mind helping you out in this issue you are facing. Let me know if you need a good hard patt on the back for all your hard work protecting your Babas. I think they under appreciate your hard work.

Never said I am waiting for Sant ji that is something you made up. It is obvious you have nothing virtues to add to this discussion so you go on personal attacks to save your Babas. The Morcha was still going with Sant Baba Thakur Singh Ji Khalsa here. Just because no one told your Baba or told you doesn`t mean the Morcha was not going on. You won`t get no more information from me about this matter. What I have said is pretty much general knowledge. However the Sikh sangat is not even asking for a Dharam Yudh Morcha. They just want leaders which I listed to speak out about the Punjab police officer making a confession. Which Jathedar of any group has approached a court or the Punjab government. Many of the Babas followers were saying that leaders like Hari Singh Randhawa, Dhumma, Sant Samaj kept close relationships with Badal so they can influence Badals government to help Sikhs. Now Sikhs are calling on these leaders, but all we get is that it is not in Maharaj`s Hukam for 1984 victims to be helped. It`s in Maharaj`s Hukam for Dhumma to sit at the feet of Badal, but not Hukam to tell Badal here is the proof you were wanting from the Sikhs. The worst enemy of Sikhs are these agents among us acting as Sikhs. Darshan Ragi, Sarna, Dal Khalsa, etc have close ties with congress government. So use these close ties to get justice for 1984 victims and their families. But once again this side also has failed the Sikhs. Both sides yell at the top of their lungs for money, but now they are not even ready to give a political statement in favor of Sikhs.

The EDL may claim to be against Islamic extremism but their own actions are of extremists. They go outside Mosques while people are praying to almighty God, why on Earth do we want to ally ourselves to them? We Sikhs protect the rights of religious freedom not attack it, remember a couple of years ago during the London riots many Singhs guarded the Southall Mosque while our Muslim brothers prayed, that is what Sikhi is about. During that time we protected the Hindu jeweller shops which were a high priority for the looters, that is what Sikhi is about. Sikhi isn't about going to pubs while the EDL get tanked up and protest in the streets causing hatred in the community. Sorry about the repeat post

Then how come dhan dhan dhan baba thakur singh ji maharaj didn't continue with full fledge dharam yudh morcha after blue star? ..over zealous chelas have no answer to that besides hide behind excuse of hakum- waiting for sant ji to come back, whenever it suits them...what happened now? are over zealous sitting abroad sitting waiting for sant ji to come back while they sit on leather chairs abroad- living large- bling bling- listen to yo yo videos/playing xbox yet criticize and expect other parcharikhs in punjab to continue with dharam yudh morcha..what a two faced hypocrites...if you feel strongly about others in punjab continue with dharam yudh morcha..what other better karam would be to lead my example- go to india and show hows its done..some of sissy singhs sitting abroad reminds me of sakhi of pandits encourage sri guru gobind singh ji of sacrificing one of their own in order to pargat chandi..guru maharaj said- lead by example..why don't you sacrifice yourself pandit ji ? lead by example then will do..pandits ran away right away..such is state of some of singhs abroad...!!

Sant ji started Dharam yudh Morcha, but has anyone heard that Sant ji said now the Morcha is over? Chela of Babas and professors are using excuses to hide the truth. These Babas and professors have been bought and/or are scared. I give a lot of credit to Dhadrianwale for speaking out. When things get tough the chelas and leaders use the excuse of Maharajs Hukam has not granted us to take action. If one of these chelas business or family members were in trouble then they won't waste no time using all legal and illegal means to save it or them. Hari Singh Randhawa to gain political power stands beside Badal. But when it comes to Sikh victims of 1984, then he is not saying a word. So it's okay to go against Maharaj's Hukam when Hari Singh Randhawa needs to gain political power, but not okay to follow Maharaj's Hukam when action can be taken again those who butchered Sikhs. Where is Dhumma, Harinder Singh, Darshan Ragi, Sarbjit Singh Dhunda and his missionary college, Sant Samaj, Jathedar Iqbal Singh, Sant Satnam Singh of Neeldhari cult and rest of the lot who like to call themselves leaders of the Khalsa Panth? Sant Satnam Singh ji of the Neeldhari cult has now picked up the sword, so where is his Saintly side coming to protect the weak victims of 1984 as a sipahi? These fake Jathedars also gave him a sword of Satguru's so where is this Saintly Shakti that he holds? It's all pakhand what these leaders are doing. They are making a mockery of the 1984 victims and their families. Yet Sikhs are so easy to forget when digging deep into their pockets and donating to such groups. These leaders are given power by the Sikhs when you donate your hard earned money to them.

I honestly believe its not up to him(dhandrianwale) nor us to take full fledged action - dharam yudh morcha. It's up to akaal purkh hakum. Very important incident- game changing incident in sant jarnail singh bhindranwale life is totally been overlooked by historians which is only "after" darshan and permission of sri guru gobind singh ji maharaj at hazoor sahib- sant jarnail singh bhindranwale started dharam yudh morcha. Before darshan, people criticize him too - called him typical gyani who is reading gurbani all the time not raising voice against social injustices..sri guru nanak dev ji got stones thrown at him surely his sikh in physical form/in social form goes through much worst hardship..its kalyug..people didn't spare sri guru nanak dev ji..how can they spare his sikhs/dogs at his doors... Surely every sikh should be sant-sipahi as far as sidhak goes- keep trying its best to spread awareness but at the end its up to akaal purkh hakum which decides how effective one is - sant-sipahi/who is given samporan sant sipahi role..there are plenty of examples there were major injustices done by gov't post 1984. one equally claim with twisted logic- how come baba thakur singh surrender at blue star, how come he didn't continue with dharam yudh morcha after sant jarnail singh bhindranwale? We can only speculate, give advise, judge people on our pre-conceived notions (apply default purest form of sant/sipahi role on everyone) but only rare people understand akaal purkh hakum and only rarest of rare bhramgyani in form of karak gets the seva/hand picked by akaal purkh- seva of sant-sipahi ..To name few of many samporan sant and sipahis- baba deep singh, bhai mani singh, baba sahib singh bedi, baba, baba sobha singh, baba bir singh nurangabad, baba maharaj singh nurangabad, some of great bhramgyani nihang mahapursh, sant jarnail singh bhindranwale)...you can ask any parcharaik..they will tell you same thing its not up to individual but up to akaal purkh hakum...after all its his divine play..!!

I agree Dhadrianwale has a huge following and can have a significant influence on what others think about 1984. Again I am not saying parchar is bad at all. Those in positions to take action for those that are unable to defend themselves or fund themselves must do so instead of just talking about it. I feel that Dhadrianwale is in the position to take action. I also know that Hari Singh Randhawa is in a position to take action, but he has not uttered one word about Surjit Singh's confession that I know of. However Hari Singh Randhawa is so quick to take a photo with Badal. Same goes for Dhumma Sahib. Both are so quick to call themselves part of Taksal, but do not show by their actions that they are from the Taksal of Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji Maharaj. Dhumma was so quick to collect fame by putting up Sant ji's name on the Memorial of 1984, but now justice can be served to the victims. Dhumma is quiet as a mouse. Add Harinder Singh Sikri runner to the list as well. The Khalsa Panth honestly needs to ask themselves. We give our money to these leaders and they spend the money on marketing their name and/or jatha. When it comes to taking action they don't do anything or take a step that does really nothing. So why give dasvand to such people? Why not stand up to them and ask them critical questions? Why continue down this road of giving and receiving nothing back. This starts with one person standing up and slowly the ripple effect will take place. Don't look to another to change. Be the change first and others will learn from you. Sitting with Gurmukhs I have learned that they appreciate the critical questions and welcome them as they have nothing to hide.

Just wanted to bump this thread, lot more new updates on this website. I cannot even fathom how much seva is been undertaken/done by sevadars to complete this monumental task of manually reading/converting the books into audio books with each separate section...Guru Maharaj have great kirpa on them. Vahiguroo.!!

No it's not and we need to make it clear that we shall not be fooled by a NF or BNP in disguise if that's what they are up to. If they think they can trick us into supporting them and then drop us like ho's then they will have another thing coming. If we approach with this attitude, we shall get more respect and recognition that we aint no joke

I agree with Tommy Robinson, but it's not smart to align with EDL given the bad rep in mainstream. Why not focus on promoting SAS?

Sikhs against EDL are much more dangerous as they side with the very people who hate us. They are middle class communists who want to cover up grooming and conversion.

Any so called sikh who stands against EDL cant be called a Sikh because EDL are an important tool against islamification of the UK. As much as we may not like their hooliganism and some of the uneducated morons in their ranks. They have a noble cause that is to defend the english way of life and freedoms vs the fundamentalist totalitarian arab supremist ideology of Islam where you as a non-muslim have hardly any rights nor do women. Having said that any Sikh that is within the EDL should try and stay out of the demo's and flashpoints where EDL members and the UAF and MDL scum clash. There are Hindu and Jewish units of EDL let them fight it out with the muslim fundamentalists. Sikhs have no reason to get involved unless they are provoked into a response on the streets.

See for yourself what this game maker is up to now. https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10201593650981712&set=a.1123789613544.21140.1191233975&type=1&theater

Gurfateh Parkash 2013 is coming up 12, 13, 14th July at Guru Nanak Sikh Academy Hayes, Kirtan lineup is on website www.parkash.org Please see attached poster and come along, reap the benefits of amazing Kirtan and Sewa, with lots of extra projects and stalls this year, Sikhi camp, jobs fair, fab food and more...don't miss it!!! sangat from all over Europe expected... YouTube advert video link GNSA Singh channel...subscribe now for updates and recordings!!!See you there! Fateh!!!

How do you actually feel about it ?? Do you think it is sacrilege if you have a gurbani app on your phone because it goes in your pocket to the toilet ?? I think the answer is found within ad not by what some one else says to you. For me, it doesn't matter whether it's on a phone or not- besides I no longer carry a phone as I believe it can dictate too many moments in my life that should be spent in consonance with Akal Purakh. The gurbani is deeply enshrined within my heart and this makes it UNTOUCHABLE. Gurbani comes from the lord himself, they are the words of the divine- the shabad guru. The gurbani has to be seen or heard in a physical material form to be absorbed and then contemplated within our minds and hearts. Because we are material forms in maya, then so does our interaction have to be in order to primarily receive. Just as the One Sun gives the whole of creation it's light and warmth, so does anything else from God including his divine WORD or Gurbani.. Now if the same ONE sun sends the warmth to us by his divine doing, do we in any way change the form of rays coming from the sun ? Or to put it a little easier, if we hang out some dirty filthy laundry to dry out in the sun, then do the sun's rays coming from the divine source get dirty or affected in any way ?? In the same way, the WORD does not get affected no matter where it hits or bounces off just like the sun's rays. The age of the paper and pen is slowly passing as everything becomes electronic, but the WORD of Gurbani will still be the same no matter what or which format it may be presented in. As for the going to the toilet issue and all that, then this comes down to general Sikh discipline. God has given us all the same bodies and no matter how clean our hearts and gurmukh our conduct may be, we will still operate as humans and contain and produce dirty waste products that are defecated or urinated. We will NEVER cleanse our bodies of this internal waste whilst we reside in this kappra of a body. The accessories of today are designed to be with us at all times,they are shaped and accustomed to fit into our pockets and not be too far in reach. Taking your ipod playing gurbani into the toilet is not the same as taking guru sahib ji into the toilet to watch you defecate is it ?? This is the HUGE difference, the accessory or item goes with us but we don't take it to tarnish any part of it in an area for human waste. If you still feel uncomfortable having gurbani on the same device as gansta rap or gurbani app along with games and movies seems inappropriate, then just don't do it OR get a separate device to help keep a clear conscious. This stage comes down to personal rehat and discipline where we shouldn't encourage or discourage others. Sacrilege in my opinion is when you deface and tamper with something precious. It is when you do graffiti on a gutka or draw some little pictures on the pages..... It is when you intentionally do not wash your hands and proceed to flick through the pages of gutka, or try and read a gutka whilst eating a pizza slice at the same time. Electronic devices don't get tampered with by dirty hands or food crumbs, but by electronic viruses and unsuitable material within the system.

Oh Singho and Singhnian....who are your friends and who are your enemies ? Who are those which wish to cause you harm and who are those that are innocent bystanders ? Sikhs = learners = scholars = seekers of truth = scholars of everything (sociology, history, geography ....everything) So let us Sikhs (scholars) cast our minds back on recent history .......Well now, lets start with the black African student that was beaten to a bloody pulp by ra ich kid spoit brat Punjabi youth with high connections in the Punjab administration. IUts a well publicised event... He's still in a coma several months later! The Punjabi that racistly sent this innocent balck man into a coma is still driving around with police protection still freely acting like a raggamuffin. Fast forward several months and another story hits the news. ..Another rich kid 'Punjabi' with racist views steps out of his rich car and insults innocent black african students. His rich kid insults have no substance so he revokes to the lowest commmon dedominator....racism. Uncle ji's from Mississauga and Wolverhampton have been going 'home' for so long souting their racism against blacks back home that their audience in Punjab has started to believe it as gospel. Rich kid plays on racism so says the black is a thief. Punjab police come and take the side of the rich kid. The humans (black sfrican students in Punjab) say enough is enough so they beat those disgusting bloody corrupt Punjabi cops to a pulp. So......fast forward a few months......Who's side are you on Singho ? Are you on the side of the Punjab police that shoot us in the back whilst we're reciting naam simran (and the state govt that controls them) or are a seeker of the truth? There are terrible horrible things being done to Sikhs each and every day in the land called India. I'll be damned if I ever ignore thier inhuman actions and believe their racist lies about wonderfull central african students. Shame on you 'Dal Khalsa'. Shame on you. And I say that as the most die hard khalistani you could ever hope to meet. Shame on you. How stupid do you think we are that e'd fall for it ? Yes.....Sikhs are being discriminated against in 'India'. Yes....Sikhs are being killed at an astonishing rate. But...dal khalsa....you do a disservice to all of us by pinning the blame on the 'black man'. Shame on you dal khalsa. Shame on you.

Bro i did not accuse u of being racist but yeah i definitely do believe we are getting caught up in sensationalist racist media hype. I totally condemn the Arab Muslims from Sudan killing the innocent Mizoram student for being a kaffir. These Muslims that murdered the innocent student from Mizoram deserve to get the death penalty for it. I don't think Indian courts are known for leniency and I don't think the Indian prison guards will treat these Arab Muslim murderers from Sudan kindly. But let's say if there's one murderer out of 10,000 foreign students in Punjab who all pay at least 5 lakhs a year on their university courses. That's a minimum of 50,000 lakhs of revenue coming into the Punjab economy and which in turn makes those universities more financially viable for our own Sikh graduates to graduate from. So economically there's no argument - the African students benefit the Punjab economy and on the whole are law abiding. If a small minority such as these two Arab Muslim murderers are not then Punjab Police and prison system are there to soon straighten out the odd person. The whole media reporting, however, is clearly racist in its overtones. And its trying to copy how Punjabi Muslims and Saudi Arabians think of and treat blacks. Sikhs are not racist by definition, as we recognise all humanity as one, so we should be extra careful not to get swept away in alarmist reporting and sensationalism which is now sinking to the depths of accusing African students who come to Punjab to get an education (and boost our economy in the process) of being participants in a new Genocide of the Sikh Qaum by making animal noises in the night ... and then when Sikhs go and out and investigate ... these African death squads go out and exterminate them ... LOL ... seriously bro this stuff is too ludicrous to be believable! Bro i agree with u - wrong is indeed wrong. Sikhs suffer brutality from the Indian courts and prison system for no reason, so I have no doubt that any isolated examples of troublemakers like the Arab Muslim murderers will get their dues either by the death penalty which they deserve or a life sentence rotting in prisons just like how many innocent Sikh political prisoners have done. I don't believe in political correctness. What's wrong action or wrong beliefs we have to condemn rather than ignorantly saying that ideologies that support slavery, pedophilia, racism, discrimination and hatred of women are in any way equal to Sikhi because they simply are not. As for the the areas of Punjab, currently in Pakistan, out of which Sikhs were ethnically cleansed and exterminated out of, I think that says it all about where the future is headed. Now that we're ethnically cleansed out of Pakistan some Sikhs feel we have no right to live freely under Khalsa Raj on the Pakistan side of the border. The inevitable consequence of such an attitude is that the GOI will try make us a minority on the Indian side too so that we surrender all rights on the side where our population is more. In Doaba we've already been turned into a minority and hence why the main target area for Christian and Muslim missionaries is around Majha and Malwa areas.

The problem is that dating, then marriage seems to be the only way to eradicate the caste system !! I've known plenty of Sikhs who have dated and married out of caste but I have NEVER known anyone have an arranged marriage out of caste, have you ???

ISingh, before being in a place to comment on issues you have to research about it. http://www.punjaboutlook.com/19-lovely-professional-university-students-of-african-origin-arrested/ "The police arrested 19 African students of Lovely Professional University for indulging into rioting and theft at a public place. " - 15 June 2013 http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2013-06-17/india/40026536_1_police-station-police-officials-yannick-nizhanga JALANDHAR: Nineteen students from different African countries studying at Lovely Professional University in Jalandhar were booked by police for theft, rioting and causing hurt, following high drama for around four hours, during which police had a tough time controlling them. The accused allegedly had a scuffle with a youth from Himachal Pradesh on Saturday and later with a photo journalist. They also reportedly snatched their bag and camera respectively, which were later recovered by police from the accused. http://www.indianexpress.com/news/sudan-condoles-mizo-students-killing/787948/ Sudan has condoled the death of a 22-year-old Mizo youth who was beaten to death allegedly by three African students of a private university in Punjab during a football match last month. Great boost to Punjabs economy according to ISingh Wrong is wrong, stop being so politically correct that you ruin your own Qaum.

It's funny that people are saying making parchia with 'YES' or 'NO' is not what a Sikh of the Guru should do, but it's okay to encourage this Sikh of the Guru to have pre-maritial interracial relationships? In relationships of this nature, whether white or brown, sooner or later both parties give in to kaam and this is not the Sikh way of doing things. To the OP, you already know your family won't be too happy about you bringing home a white girl, so what more needs to be said? Before things get too deep with this girl, why not sit your parents down and ask them how they would feel about having this girl as their future daughter-in-law? Surely it's your family you should be seeking advice from, not people here. It's you and your family who will have to deal with the consequences if you end up marrying this girl, not people on this forum so of course they will encourage you to do things that they wouldn't want their own brothers/sisters/daughters/sons to do. In my own family and many others, I've seen what happens when Punjabis marry white girls/boys and it's not pretty. The actions of one person can cause so much fall-out throughout even the extended family and it's not easy to be a part of this. Your mother and father raised you, you owe more to them than this girl- why risk your parents' happiness and respect just because of a few rotten Punjabi girls you met. You mention that these girls were Punjabi and didn't like your turban and beard, but if instead you met or were introduced to a Punjabi Gursikh or keshdari girl, then she would like your turban and beard. Before you are certain that you want to marry this girl, why not ask your parents to use their connections to introduce you to a Punjabi girl who does respect your kesh, because despite common belief, there are quite a few Sikh girls out there who do want to marry a sardar. Of course there are many white girls who do respect Sikh values and kesh, and even go on to marry Sikh guys. Some of these girls also become Sikh and take Amrit, but many more also do not become Sikh or amritdhari, no matter how much respect they have for our religion. Pre-maritial relationships of any kind are forbidden, and an Anand Karaj can only be done between a Sikh man and Sikh woman- read up on it in the Sikh Rehat Maryada.

Goreh are slowly realizing that their western values mostly do not give them inner peace and are drawn to sikhi, where as apne girls and boys want to be westernized, ok there are good points to their way of live too, but like i say they are slowly realizing but apne are heading down a path of destruction, so i think marrying a gori who is interested in sikhi is far way better than an apne who is not, had i have been in the same situation 20 years ago or my kids are in the same situation in years to come, i know what decision i will make, and the talkers in our community can whistle!!! ok what about the apne who have married apnia who refuse to take amrit, you cant give a guarantee about anyone, it is all in Guru ji's hands.

Even many Keshdhari Punjabi girls are not good. E.g from my 1st hand experience, I married a Punjabi Keshdhari Sikh girl. However I found her to be a liar and deceitful. Lying all the time. I am on a verge of a divorce and this woman keeps lying to court now all the time to get advantages. So who would you marry? A Keshdhari girl who is a liar, dishonest ( not Sikh values) Or a Non sikh girl, who is honest, truthful with a good moral character( Sikh values). I would marry somebody who is Sikh at heart, because she can always become a Sikh physically later.However, its hard to make change somebody's inner self( e.g haumai, krodh, jhooth, ninda) It hurts to see somebody say that he/she is a Sikh but acts completely opposite.

Follow your instinct and carry on if you are happy with this. I have to agree that some white people are MORE Sikh than our Punjabi lot. A cousin of mine who is full Sikh was in the same situation some years ago and was impressed by the attitude and behavior of this white gori. However, she claimed and believed to be atheist and then after learning about sikhi realized that it was a great religion without having some Abrahamic God and rituals as in other religions ! Anyway, they continued and got married and his white wife speaks Punjabi very well, dresses and cooks like all Punjabi women and is getting ready for amrit soon !! All the best ! Do simran and let your intuition and instinct decide. Sorry, but this is clearly NOT the way to proceed as a Sikh of the Guru. :nono:

No you are not doing wrong Sikhi is not only for us, she sounds like a good person and if she respects / accepts sikhi then thats a good thing, i know what you mean about punjabi/indian girls, at the end of the day it is your decision. Good luck.

Veerji Dairy industry in Punjab/India is anything but humane .....(yes the cows don't end up at slaugterhouses but they do suffer tremendously) ... they are given oxytocin shots (morning and evening) which is very detrimental to human as well as bovine health All spent cows in west endup becoming hamburgers. Veer questioner ji , IMHO occasionaly dairy is ok ....e.g dahi at gurdwara or chopri roti but it should not be part of our lifestyle.

Makes sense, he does actions of a Hindu anyway! :toohappy:

Are you also going to refuse dehi, roti (chappared with butter), kheer, paneer, etc.? No way i love it !! :biggrin2:

I think it's more a Pakistani vs Sikh issue. The Pakistanis are twice the number of Sikhs in the UK and I think the Sikhs outnumber the Pakistanis in Canada. You will have a wait a few more years before enough Pakistanis migrate to Canada and once they have the numbers then you too will find what kind of people they are, Sikhs and Pakistanis had good relations when the Pakistanis were in their own areas and Sikhs in their own area. But when Pakistani turn up in an area they will open up Halal shops and chicken joints. They will then turn one part of town into their own and then encroach on the rest of the town. In Southall it is only because of apnay freshies coming over on student visas and overstayers that Southall has stayed a Sikh town otherwise the Pakistanis were about to swamp the place.