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How much steroids and coke do these jut peasants need to take to make them feel alpha???? hahahahahaaaa!

Bro, why the unending propaganda about drugs? If you want to be a druggie, then go ahead, but why do you try to shoehorn it into Sikh practices for the average person? You must realise a quom of intoxicated individuals is something that's untenable and incredibly dangerous. If it wasn't such a tenuous proposition to your mind, you wouldn't be constantly trying to convince yourself it's some forgotten practice we need to reclaim and reintroduce.

Yeh I did hear it was really bad for them. I also heard that quite a large proportion of the people that turned on them were the servants that worked for them. You won’t hear any of the Kenyan crew talk about how they morphed into the ‘brown imperialists’ working for their firangi masters. They treated their black servants like dirt. They would go on hunts and have black servants run behind their vehicles for miles whilst they roll played being White Imperialists. They would also feed them the jooth that was left over from their plates. Then they came over to the UK with their Peugeot’s and Volvos and would look down on Punjabis and call them pendus and janglis because they worked as labourers and came from farming backgrounds. In fact they distanced themselves completely from the Punjabi community and set up their own Gurdwaras/Club/Halls/Societies and only followed babeh that toured in Africa. They are usually portrayed in images that have them sat on leopard skin, maybe because this allows them to claim some ownership on them. To cut a long story short this community has created more division and pushed cast segregation more than any Punjabi Jatts as DallySingh would have you believe. They still romanticise that period of time as the good old glory days.

Why are they wearing white? Because they're in mourning about having to use elephants for agriculture instead of cattle.

What makes you think that's a problem for them? They couldn't care less about the Guru, or being close to the Guru.

Don't give me any ideas to start my own cult ? Some "spirituality" in the mornings, and then some "spirituality" + group fun in the evenings ? Shri Baba Puzzled ji

As long as he stays away from giving mouth-to-mouth Simran to his followers! ?

Yeh that’s my point. He had a support base in the UK from Kenyan Sikhs because of his caste. He was a senior a Congress politician that’s why Oversees Congress Party made up of Kenyan Ramgharia Sikhs never withdrew their support for the Congress Party even after 1984 Bluestar attack. It was a different story in Punjab because the Tarkhan/Ramgharia community have a connection to the land and more so their faith. Loyalties differ from the two communities. I must say that the Kenyan Ramgharia community did not do anything to damage the Khalistan movement but did not do anything to support it, nor did they play any part in protesting against the Indian government. Really shameful if you ask me!

his story is pretty shade the canadian intellegince allegdly had videos of him and bhai Reyat actually testing explosives in a forest in vancouver island which didn't help. and also they wire tapped a house in Burnaby in which Bhai Brar and Parmar were in discussing plans to blow up several other planes. He never got convicted but was killed in India as we all know. still very well respected and lovedamong the community however there are certain segments tht hate on him and these same gurdwarey tht do also have commitees tht allow inter faith wedding and run a party hall

I think our community is guilty of peddling and perpetuating myths in order to explain certain phenomena in our culture. I was guilty of it myself in the past until I was exposed to people that challenged me to think again. We've been lead to believe that observant or religious Sikhs have a monopoly on moral and social decorum; that everyone else exists in a degenerate sphere of immorality and loose behaviour. The theory is that religious rules create a reserved and austere mindset that inoculates us from dangerous social and cultural trends designed to drag us further from God. It's an understandable attitude until you encounter a family of moneh who are more conservative, restrained, and respectable in demeanour compared to a family of practicing Amritdharis where the mother dabbles in witchcraft, the sons are on lads' holidays to Dubai, and the family in general are slaves to material excess and ostentatiousness. The cognitive dissonance this initially causes in the bystander after a lifetime of believing the opposite is quite an eye opener to say the least.

People kind of forget that we are quam. What that means is there is a tribal loyalty even if the quam has manmukhs in it.

They’re no different to their forefathers. They played zero part in the Khalistan movement. One because Giani Zail Singh was from their caste and the other they have no feelings of belonging to Punjab. They actually hosted Indian Corgress politicians in their Ramgharia Halls in the 1980’s whilst rest of the Sikh diaspora was fighting back. Their loyalty lies with their caste and Kenya. City Sikhs are the same, they have created their own segregation based upon caste and economic class. They will always create divisions, being inclusive doesn’t exist in their vocabulary.

I agree bro, Its important to create a balance and be realistic about it. These type of moneh get knocked down a lot by "religious" people in our community, and even on this forum as seen above, but its a fact that they will be among the first ones there to fight, and we've seen that in the past. When the riots happened a few years back, if I remember correctly it was around the time I started getting into Sikhi. While I was at at home watching the riots on tv, my "feral" cousin who probably goes Gurdwara like 1 time every 3 years, was sitting outside the Gurdwara all night with his mate. I sat at home not because I was scared, but I just didn't have that emotional connection with Sikhi even though I was the one that was supposedly "getting into Sikhi " Now it would be different though, lol But at the same time we should be honest, the things they do and the lifestyle they live, is wrong, and not in line with Sikhi. But its wrong to sideline them. There is a huge different between coconut moneh and the moneh being discussed above, night and day. Its important to know this. The city Sikh type folks despite wearing paghs and keeping dharis are just useless, even though they seem to think they are a voice for the rest of the community. Like I said, they would be the first ones to call for an Uber and leave the scene. It is complex. Do you think getting into Sikhi softens some people up? especially the type of moneh being discussed? or not ?

There's a balance and give-and-take to be arrived at. You're correct when you say that in the real world where people don't function according to exclusive values of saintly perfection and devilish immorality, these "street" types of people are a necessary "evil" especially if a community has to exist alongside another tribe that is hostile. It's all well and good posturing about the behaviours of these admittedly clownish people, BUT when push comes to shove I'm more likely to stand with these types of individuals in a pinch than with a cowardly faction of my own group who are more likely to appease their enemies than take them on head-on. It's a complex situation.

Don't get me wrong I'm not knocking them down. If a Gurdwara or Sikhs were to be attacked, these lot would probably be one of the first ones there to defend and fight! Despite their lifestyle, their connection to Sikhi/Sikh is still there, and admirable, but obviously are very misguided. Remember when the riots were happening in the UK years ago? Started of as Black protests and then ended up being people breaking into shops and looting. They tried coming into Southall but were driven away. Rumours spread that they were coming to our town as well, and many guys sat outside the gurdwara all night, many of then being those type of moneh, including my cousin! Who gets up to "no good" If I had to pick between those moneh or the interfaith promoting and LGBT promoting "City Sikhs", without question I would pick them moneh! If a Gurdwara was under attack, the first one to call for an uber would be the city Sikhs and the rest of us pendus would be left behind wondering what's going on. "Hot young blood" is a great addition to any community, but it needs guidance and direction, otherwise they start directing it towards wrong things, which is what is happening. What is parchar like in Canada? Are there many young Canadian born parchariks or are they all uncles from India?

Well, they've set precedents for restricting movement in unrelated areas (to women's safety) with the Covid lockdowns. It's not a stretch to imagine they can transfer the same philosophy to another social need to "protect" individuals. Once people willingly give away freedoms and liberties in one area, the ruling class will continue to find ways to abuse their power. Away from cranks, women fearing for their lives simply for walking the streets after dark shouldn't be a thing in today's society. It's actually quite sick if you stop to think about it.

That's what I was thinking. The whole transition into growing arms, legs and all of that.

Why is the womb described as hell ? I'm guessing because the baby is very vulnerable ? and anything could go wrong? The baby is in meditation in the womb, by aborting you're killing a being which is basically in meditation. (Vaar, Bhai Gurdas Jee)

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@Arsh1469 I can relate more to how you feel than any other user. Hours of hard work go into writing posts to encourage others and you don't ask for anything in return. Then individual users inject their negativity. If our post is not good, why don't they write their own post for the sangat? Anyway, well done for taking your time to share valuable things with others. I pray you will be rewarded for your efforts ? Bro carry on studying gurbani and learning for your personal journey, for your own bliss. I think just wish people of this forum well and leave them to do their fighting and arguing.

https://sikhri.org/people/nikky-guninder-kaur-singh - she's a feminist professor with a lot of western sikh influence

Yes absolutely correct Jats are a very inclusive and open community and played a huge part in the Kharku lehar, as did many other communities especially the Mazbi Sikhs. I’m just sick of the constant Jat bashing that goes on and credit should be due for the positives that this community has given. I for one am completely against the caste system, but if somebody is proud of their heritage and culture that doesn’t mean that makes them a supremest. A progressive approach is to discard your negatives and promote and protect your positives.

Well, I guess this would be the best option given the circumstances. They have no real stake in Punjab and being a mercantile community they do not see it in their interests. However, they may not agree with Khalistan but they will not openly or covertly go against other Sikhs . There are times when I disagree with other Sikhs but I will not go against them to benefit another community. Better to be indifferent than to be detrimental.

Yeah, I've read a bit about Bhai Sahib and he was very dedicated to Sikhi, Parchaar and the freedom movement, and from what I've read he was loved by the sangat. Rumours about Sant Jarnail Singh ji being a congress agent have been around for a very long time. A lot has been done to tarnish the Shaheeds, some of it by the government while some of it by "sikhs" Yeah Its not surprising. My dads pind is Saini majority, a farming community. We're from Doaba which has quite a strong Saini community. Jatt-Saini Inter-caste marriages happen, which isn't surprising. My mothers friend is from a Saini family and she's married to a man from a Jatt family. From what I know UK Sikhs raised a lot of money. The video that uploaded today of the shaheedi samagam is from my local Gurdwara. We also had Bibi Bimal ji, wife of Shaheed Beant Singh ji, come to the Gurdwara to do a speech, But I was a couple of months old when it happened so I wasn't there, lol. From what I know some people from the UK did go to Punjab to fight, but it was far less than the number of Canadians that went. Theres a video of Bhai Avtar Singh Brahma and Canadian Singhs on youtube, target practicing.

I heard these rumours to but these are baseless claims. Elders that were knew him remember him being very much inlove with Sikhi but the man was very fiery and a bit overboard (my mama who wasnt Gursikh at the time told me how my Nani would tell him to stay away from Parmar and the Singhs associated with him) this is because he had lost young relatives and close friends in fake encounters and Operation blue star really turned his heart. Him and other Singhs were actively recruiting Canadians at the time to go back and fight. Im not trying to sound castist but it was pretty much only cetain communtiies doing this among those mostly Jatt, Saini and rjput i think these are the ones tht moved mostly to canada also look at how they didnt care about caste were all 1 . I have very little knowledge of UK karkhu movement other than UK singhs raised lots of money i dont know about any active drives to send youth back to fight if u have any details on tht it would be interesting

Yeah I've definitely come across the "we're saved and God loves us more" type of Amritdharis, and they're normally from Amritdhari families themselves. I think that is the case with many. Some behave as if they were divinely conceived in heaven and then dropped off into their mothers arms by a stork. But like you said its not the case with all of them. I've come across so many Singhs who are so humble and giving. Sometimes you can easily read someone's face and get an impression of what they're like, lol proud and snobby people just can't hide it, it reflects on their face, don't you think ? lol

Yes you are correct, it is wrong but a lot of these guys don't realise this. Tattoos again are tribal. In mainstream gora society, tatoos have become normal. So this has infiltrated into sections of the quam. However, tattoos traditionally were used by army, navy as a sense of belonging in their particular unit. I think this section of the quam see it in the same way. Personally, I am not happy with what has happened with the khanda. It's become like brand logo like Nike or Mercedes etc. It's been commercialised.

Yeah, they were shipped off to Africa by the Brits to work in the army and build railway tracks (which they like to deny) and then they started keeping Black slaves, they used call them "boy" which is what slave traders called Black slaves. The oppressed becoming oppressors? Yeah their own slaves started rebelling against them, along with the anti-Indian local Blacks, police and government and then they had to migrate for the 2nd time. Africans really should make a movie about this for Black history month, I'd watch it. Honestly no one really takes them seriously around here, lol they're considered coconuts and gora-fyed. Their youth are weirdos and their gurdware are empty. Very strange bunch of people.

There are some questions that probably need answering. Was the suspect known to the victim? Also, being in lockdown, why was she going to her friends house? If the suspect did indeed murder and he is a police officer, how did he even think he could get away with it? I did briefly see something on the news regarding this. They were in Clapham Common and it did seem that the path that she took was through the common. They were talking about why should it be dangerous for women to be walking safely in the dark. Even as a man, I would be wary to walk through a park in the dark no matter how well lit it would be. Maybe the risks are less for a man who is bigger and stronger than a woman but they are risks none the less.

Could have sworn to see a bunch of apne in California, especially northern California/bay area, doing the same thing you just mentioned? Bay area apne were literally walking around blasting Mac Dre and wearing baggy clothes back in the day. You find this everywhere with every single culture. Everybody is mimicking black culture. The Punjabis in the UK and some parts of Canada are obviously going to regularly use patois slang because it is literally embedded within the culture. However, the whole wannabe thug culture prevalent in Punjabi communities in Vancouver and parts of Toronto is mad corny though.

http://sttm.co/s/31025/403061 ਦੋਹਰਾ॥ Soratha. ਪਰਨਾਰੀ ਜੂਆ ਅਸਤ ਚੋਰੀ ਮਦਰਾ ਜਾਨ॥ Know another's women, gambling, speaking falseness, theft, and alcohol; ਪਾਂਚ ਐਂਬ ਯੇ ਜਗਤ ਮੈ ਤਜੈ ਸੁ ਸਿੰਘ ਸੁਜਾਨ॥੫੮॥ These are five Aibs (evil vices) of this world, the Singh who rejects them is wise.

It's actually the chemistry of vitamins bro. Which I learned before knowing anything about Sukha. With known facts about Sukha and science on top.

Wishing you all the best brother...who knows, maybe we'll see you in the future and you can share some more gian with us ?

little bro , you could still complete the thread post when you can . Stay in Chardikala .

Wish you a Chardikala future ahead Khalsa ji. Vaheguru ji ka khalsa Vaheguru ji ki fateh!???

Your aren't a woman though, and if women don't like it then its their problem. Like I said, in bani Guru ji describes himself as a Sodhi, his fathers clan. He then describes the genealogy of the Sodhi clan. He doesn't mention his mothers family or genealogy. Bani mentions Guru Nanak Dev ji as a member of the Bedi clan, his mothers lineage or clan is not mentioned. Same with Guru Amar Das ji and its the same with Guru Ramdas Ji. We as Sikhs then should follow suit and use the same family structure and order. I don't understand what is so difficult about that? That is why its the bride that gets married into the grooms family. That is why Guru Gobind Singh ji said that marry your daughter into a family where Sikhi is practiced. You can't make it any clearer than that. If women have a problem with that then it is their problem. The doors are flung open, no one is telling them to have Anand Karaj or be Sikhs.

Lmao, reverse psychology, good idea. Convince her the husband is a mule or livestock to be reined by the bride; a metaphor for marriage. ?? Debate over. Not only is Sikhi pro-female, the Sikh marriage ceremony demotes the groom to animal status.

I just wanted to point out that person walking behind holding a palla control the person walking in front. just like how you can control an animal( horse). If you don't like the current Anand karaj maryada than please go ahead and get a court marriage.

we used to hv nirmala scholars who in 18th century were proper Gursikhs. They used to study hindu religion and do parchar of Gurmat on the hindu community and made many Hindus into Sikhs. Unfortunately, present day nirmalas r doing the opposite. They r doing parchar of Vedanta matt on Sikhs. We need to correct the nirmalas.They shud study all religions and do parchar of sikhi on non Sikhs.

Those y'all saying that Guru's army ate meat during the bad times,etc....There is no evidence for that and some manmukhs are doing false ਪਰਚਾਰ; Coming to the next point Gurus who did hunt animals was to bless them with mukti and no hukam was given by satgur to the fauj to eat its flesh; That there was some of give and take account which needed to be settled that's why they met their fate; And don't waste your time arguing about meat eating etc. do simran instead? WJKK WJKF !

The sources which support your desire to use drugs and eat meat are corrupted. Throughout the years people have wanted to corrupt, twist and change sikhi for various reasons. Some are motivated by the wish to create division in the sikh panth or to bring Sikhism under the umbrella of Hinduism. Others are motivated by the need to justify personal desires such as use of meat and drugs. Such sources are clouded by doubt. There is one source however which as sikhs we must not doubt....our guru...Siri Guru Granth Sahib who says - ਕਬੀਰ ਭਾਂਗ ਮਾਛੁਲੀ ਸੁਰਾ ਪਾਨਿ ਜੋ ਜੋ ਪ੍ਰਾਨੀ ਖਾਂਹਿ ॥ Kabeer, those mortals who consume marijuana, fish and wine. ਤੀਰਥ ਬਰਤ ਨੇਮ ਕੀਏ ਤੇ ਸਭੈ ਰਸਾਤਲਿ ਜਾਂਹਿ ॥੨੩੩॥ - no matter what pilgrimages, fasts and rituals they follow, they will all go to hell. ||233|| SRI GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI - 1377  SALOK KABEER JEE BHAGAT KABEER JI

We were instructed by Guru Gobind Singh Ji to only use Singh and Kaur. Yet about 70% of Sikhs still use their family names. As someone who has always had Singh in my name I find it odd that people still cling onto their family name like some kind of badge of honour and false pride. Wherever I go people instantly know what faith I am by my surname and even respect me more when they see my surname as SINGH they know I have ditched any kind of castists backward name. That is the response I have got from many non sikhs. Who admire that name. Which is probably the best and well known name there is in India and abroad. Not some silly name like channa or bedi ect. Yet people still love to flaunt their caste names on twitter and facebook. Singh and Kaur is meant to create unity in the panth. Yet people would rather have some silly names that dont mean jack. Why do people have no pride in Singh or Kaur? having your silly pendu name just creates division.

This thread poses two problems as I see it, which have already been mentioned. 1) Some people will read this and use it as an excuse to promote or engage in recreational drug use and abuse. 2) Some people may think use of these substances is a requirement in Sikhi. Neither are acceptable. Then the two extremes, either the typical "drugs are bad, war on drugs!" or "drugs are allowed, shako ji shako!" - both are completely and utterly ignorant. References to drugs in Gurbani refer to those who used them for spiritual purposes like some Sadhus and mastane faqirs still do today, who use them to achieve spiritual ecstasy or aid in meditation etc. OR it refers to those who used them recreationally, to enjoy and have a good time (which further has its own set of issues). Both examples are prohibited in Sikhi. The key lies in the distinction of intention. Is it believable Sikhs in the past used afeem? Yes of course. I don't know why that's so surprising. They weren't using it recreationally i.e. to have a good time. Its application was practical and limited. Much in the way opiates (and other drugs which have intoxicating qualities) are used pharmaceutically today. Of course Ayurveda knew about this well before western medicine and it's not like Sikhs didn't apply Ayurvedic or natural remedies....unless you're under the illusion that every single Singh back in the day was a Mahapurkh and could tap into Shakti at will, didn't need to do any religious practise, and didn't need to use food, water, medicine like everyone else....and the "get high on Naam bro!" or "Gurbani is my medicine bro!" rhetoric. Afeem and bukki (dodeh, poppy husk) are mainly used for their stimulating properties (or maybe a combination of relaxing-stimulation?). To increase focus and energy. It's been mentioned here that Singhs used it on long horseback journeys or for carrying heavy loads. To stay awake. It's also makes sense why scholars and the like would have used it too; compiling those hefty Granths is no easy feat. If you look at its use today, it doesn't differ much; farmers, labourers, long haul drivers etc. The Chinese also seeked the more stimulating high rather than relaxing from it - look into accounts. I even remember seeing in a doco about the opioid crisis in America, some referring to certain medications over there as providing a "speedy" buzz (Oxycodone iirc). The opium poppy has numerous compounds, not all produce the kick-back-and-chill effect. There's various factors that determine this though; cultivar/variety of plant, processing, dose etc. I will say, one should really look into how it's used and why. Singhs didn't just have khulli chhuti to use what they wanted when they wanted. They still had rules and regulated it in their own way. They possessed the control to use it safely. There are those who didn't and you can see them for yourself today, not in good shape. I've heard different from faujis. Ask your fauji builder mates about this. Likely they'll tell you the opposite..that it's used as an aphrodisiac. It even comes as a proprietary preparation called 'Kamini Vidrawan Ras'. Obviously many of these lot simply use it for afeem's 'regular' effects. But sure it probably can be used for supressing sexual desire, perhaps that's dose dependant. However using it for that reason is a blag. The majority of Bihangam/Brahmachari haven't used, and, don't use afeem. The whole point of controlling this desire is to conquer the mind as a whole, to subdue the Panj Chor. Using a substance for that is a cop-out. @shastarSingh We also know it's been used in other scenarios too: anti-diarrhoeal, analgesic, blood thinner (during heart attacks and strokes). All medicinal as are the above reasons. The amount of stimulants apne use today; chaa every 15mins, coffee, knocking back cans of Red Bull they may as well take feem lol. People don't wanna face reality these days, having an idealistic rose-tinted view of the past. And/or have filled their head with propaganda which makes them spaz out at the briefest mention of such things like feem or sukha. Little do they know they've probably already taken a drug derived from these two natural sources or will have to at some point in their lives, and with that I hope you too face the accusation of being an amli, anti-Gurmat and all the rest of the bakwaas that is spouted. Next time you feel tired or fatigued don't drink any caffeine or anything energy boosting, next time your kachhera needs changing because you have the sh!ts don't take Imodium or any anti-diarrhoeal medication (because most are opiate based), next time you have pain, refuse any opiate based painkiller. Hell why stop there, don't take any substance or medication which is even remotely mind-altering! For what it's worth, I myself agree with this approach. Although everyone should heed this...Warning: Do not take any opiate based substances unnecessarily. They can be highly addictive and destructive if not used correctly, and if used for extended periods of time. Gurbar Akaal!

This is for you bhaji Read the description

http://www.vidhia.com/Bhai Randheer Singh Ji/Is-bowing-to-Guru-Granth-Sahib-Ji-akin-to-idol-worship.pdf This article about Bhai Sahib Bhai randhir Singh Ji's conversation with an officer in the british raj is a must read for everyone. We need to know why we bow to Guru Sahib or risk it becoming nothing more than an empty ritual.

Yes massands were burned by Guru maharaj..it was based on those times, circumstances/level of curroption/individuals karams but that incident was never intended or meant for turning into some sort of sharia law like we see in muslim countries such as saudi arabia, iran etc. Also another thing i have heard from senior gurmukhs...its common belief that if someone was killed by guru/hari avtars of vahiguroo - in this case guru maharaj they got mukhti- they stopped individuals but at the end behind that thought of stopping them there is some immense love for them and their karma....gyani sher singh talks about sakhi of aurenzeb where guru maharaj ji refused to destroy him physically but rather through zafarnama, its very interesting episode between sri guru gobind singh ji maharaj and aurenzeb..he basically for lack of better word- killed aurenzeb with zafarnama..there was a compassion behind guru maharaj upon stopping/killing oppressors/masands. All in all - we sikhs cannot and should not copy actions of guru maharaj and turn them into some laws or rules as we cannot copy or mimic actions of guru maharaj as us mere mortals cannot understand karamati/incomprehensible actions by guru maharaj who is pure incarnation of vahiguroo ji himself..!!!