Sikh man facing beheading in Saudi Arabia

[SinghPunjabSingh]

17 hours ago, MisterrSingh said:

1. If ... Sikhs are incapable of preserving their own existence, then such a demographic deserves to be wiped out and replaced by Abrahamics. There's no two ways about it. This isn't us being forced to convert or flee at the end of a sword or a gun.

2. We are actively and happily handing over our future existence to these groups with no prompting from any other group. This is all us.

3. And there is nothing in Sikh religious scriptures that contradicts any of what is occurring.

1. I have to sadly agree with you. If the proliferation of apartheid Dera's continues and the present day Dharam Yudh of "Ik Nagri Ik Gurdwara" (only one united Gurdwara per pind in Punjab and in each locality in the West) then we are staring at demographic oblivion with the community heading towards minority status in east Punjab. 

2. I disagree on that. Some of our people are stupid, yes. However, these demographic time bombs for east Punjab are ALL deliberate. 

i) Muhammad Izhar Alam the Genocidal Killer of Sikhs being appointed head of the east Punjab Waqf Board and tasked with the ultimate of re-activating and re-building 13,000 new Mosques in each and every village was no accident.

ii) Churches being planted on strategic corners in every pind does not happen without RAW's connivance and support. You can bet your bottom dollar that if the same scenario happened in Gujarat, Modi and Amit Shah would tackle it in a flash. A lot of the ex-Punjab Police and cats who became active in the drugs trade in BC are heavily involved in the mushrooming up of these Churches.

iii) Much of the land is also gifted direct by the Government to the RAW's apartheid pushing underlings (the non-Abrahamic Hindutva crowd working to break Sikhs away from Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj) as a quid pro quo that all revenues from the apartheid dera's will go to the pimps running those apartheid dera's.

iv) You will never see a Mosque, a Church or a Dera Ballan apartheid dera ever raided by Punjab Police for drugs. These places are safe havens for drug dealing to destroy Sikh youth.

vi) I can go on and on as I have studied this sytematic attempt to destroy the Sikh Panth but I have faith that the Truth of Sikhi will be strong enough to overcome these multi-pronged challenges. People that believe in the enslavement and Genocide of others and in the depravity of the caste simply cannot win. 

3. Gurbani is about spiritually enabling us ordinary human beings to become better people and to enable Begumpura where no one suffers injustice or discrimination.

Unlike the Abrahamic scriptures there is no blueprint in Gurbani that 20% of slave profits captured by the Muslim Ummah should go direct to Profit Muhammad's pocket.

Sikhi arms us with Bibek Buddhi.

We don't need Gurbani to spell out that we should not follow a Genocidal terrorist pedophile racist Slave Trader like Muhammad.

Our own analysis of his demented life should be enough for that.

The 2 billion Muslim demographics will sooner or later sink without trace once all Muslim read and analyse as to what kind of depraved person Muhammad the Slave Trader was.

However, it is our job as Sikhs to ensure that in the interim before Islam and the other big Slavemaster Abrahamic faith both collapse they do not destroy innocent lives in east Punjab in the process.

Similarly, and even more demographically important is that we do not allow the Hindutva apartheid pimps like Dera Ballan to prevent the re-integration of 60 million Nanakpanthi Sikhs of leatherworking ancestry back into the Sikh Panth and the fracturing apartheid divide and rule being implemented against Sikh villages in east Punjab with RAW's backing.     

[SinghPunjabSingh]

12 hours ago, MisterrSingh said:

Gurbani decries the ritual of Islam and all religions that veer from the path of worshipping one God. It doesn't condemn the faith; it condemns the follower. 

I disagree. Gurbani is about connecting us mere mortals to Akaal Purakh so that Sikhs can uplift ourselves as individuals and society at large. Followers of any Slavemaster (or Manuwadi) religion are not condemned blindly but the wrongful actions of the same are condemned. Gurmat emphatically condemning Slavery, the caste system, pedophilia, terrorism, Genocide is tantamount to an outright rejection of Islam, Christianity and Hinduism without Gurbani needing to dedicate itself to outright stating that Nazism, Satanism, Islam, Christianity, Manu Smriti, Hindutva are bad.

12 hours ago, proudkaur21 said:

Look at bhai Mardana, bhagat kabir ji. They were born into muslim families but were they Muslims according to Islam? NO. Their actions and beliefs were not in accordance with Islam.

Exactly Bhai Mardana Ji were the first Sikh in history and the most famous apostate from Islam in Punjab. Similarly, Dhan Dhan Baba Kabir Ji Maharaj are the clearly biggest opponent of Islam in Gurbani and wholeheartedly rejected the depravity of Islam's racist ideology and Profit Muhammad's own life.

12 hours ago, MisterrSingh said:

it condemns the HINDU and it condemns the "TURK" 

I don't believe Dhan Dhan Baba Namdev Ji Maharaj were chastising individual followers (of Hinduism or Islam) for not practising Truth (Gurmat/Sikhi). They were roundly rejecting Islam and Hinduism in toto. 

11 hours ago, MisterrSingh said:

The implication is the religions in their original forms are both valid. The implication is that the followers have corrupted these religions by fasting, circumcisions, etc.

You fail to understand that if Sikhi criticised the actual religions from the exact moment of their creation (i.e. their reason for being), it would imply that God made a mistake by creating these two religions. Sikhi takes the line that God created good and just religions that were distorted at a later date by Man. 

I disagree. What Sikhi and Mahatma Buddh say is that Bibek Buddhi and Truth have been with human beings since day one. Way before Islam and Hinduism and Christianity ever existed.

Religions that promote circumcision, promote terrorism, promote ethnic cleansing, promote Slavery, promote Genocide, promote pedophilia clearly never came from God. It shouldn't take half a brain cell to work that one out. What Gurbani criticises are fraudsters claiming that the Quran or Manu Smriti or the Bible or the Torah are the word of God. 

10 hours ago, MisterrSingh said:

Also, Sikh affiliation 

I disagree. No Sikh hates a Muslim doctor saving lives at hospital or an innocent toddler born to Muslim parents just for the sake of it. Ie we don't dislike Islam for the sake of it. It is when Muslims tangibly impact innocent Kaffir lives in a bad way that Sikhi and Gurbani are criticising the ideology and its adherents. 

10 hours ago, MisterrSingh said:

1. But go listen to ANY Katha performed by the panth's great sants, mahapurash, gianis, kathavachaks of the past 60 years, and you'll not hear anything negative about Mohammed and Islam as a valid belief system. 

2. You'll hear criticism of Islamic PRACTICES or rituals performed by those who say they're Muslims, but you'll NEVER encounter a fundamental disavowal of the validity of Islam as a path to God.

3. Then how can we utilise Sikhi to dismantle Islam when it's always remained in it's good graces? 

4. Didn't Sant Jarnail Singh say that a Muslim should be a good Muslim, a Hindu a good Hindu, etc? There was no, "Muslims should leave Islam" or "Islam is false."

5. Even in relatively recent Sikh history our leadership has sought to make bridges with Islam. What part of Sikhi can we use to stand against Islam that doesn't make it seem like we're just making up 5hit to combat them? Our religious leadership hasn't ever given us ANY ammunition against them. Why?

1. Because our paid parcharaks in the last 50 years have never studied Islam. There has been a blind assumption propgated that all religions and ideologies are equally valid routes to connecting with the Divine. Anybody with a little bit of knowledge would realise how much Genocide and Terrorism the two big Slavemaster religions have unleashed upon the World.

2. That's the fault of our naive and uneducated parcharaks rather than Sikhi. Also our parcharaks seem to assume that because most Punjabi's are Muslims that it cannot be a false religion like Nazism etc.

3. Sikhi gives us the power of Bibek Buddhi which enables all of us to realise for ourselves that Nazism, Islam, Christianity, Hinduism, etc, etc are false without Gurbani having to go on a treatise for Aurangzeb's benefit about each.

4. The Chowk Mehta Dera ideology you are referring was tantamount to saying that 2billion Muslims always stay Muslims but become good Muslims (like Islamic State) and that all 1.1 Billion Hindu's become good Hindu's like Manu or Modi and that Sikhi remain forever constricted to those born into Sikh families in Majha and Malwa. In fact the argument is tantamount to saying that Sikhs should never exist in the first place. It wasn't for no reason that prior to June 1984, DDT the term coined by Sanjay Gandhi and Zail Sin held no credibility in the Panth.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DICDYAX_O1g

5. Those people are clowns. They are not our leaders. They don't have the right to lead the Sikh Panth. They serve laddoos to the Badals while hobnobbing with the likes of Muhammad Izhar Alam. Similarly, the 2020 types like Pannun are all Pakistani puppets on the ISI payroll.

http://www.sikh24.com/wp-content/uploads/Alam-Dhumma.jpg

 http://www.sikh24.com/wp-content/uploads/Baba_Harnaam_Singh_Dhumma_Badal-610x457.jpg

[Jai Tegang!]

13 hours ago, MisterrSingh said:

If you think I'm talking tatti, then fair enough.

But go listen to ANY Katha performed by the panth's great sants, mahapurash, gianis, kathavachaks of the past 60 years, and you'll not hear anything negative about Mohammed and Islam as a valid belief system. 

You'll hear criticism of Islamic PRACTICES or rituals performed by those who say they're Muslims, but you'll NEVER encounter a fundamental disavowal of the validity of Islam as a path to God.

Then how can we utilise Sikhi to dismantle Islam when it's always remained in it's good graces? 

Didn't Sant Jarnail Singh say that a Muslim should be a good Muslim, a Hindu a good Hindu, etc? There was no, "Muslims should leave Islam" or "Islam is false." Even in relatively recent Sikh history our leadership has sought to make bridges with Islam. What part of Sikhi can we use to stand against Islam that doesn't make it seem like we're just making up 5hit to combat them? Our religious leadership hasn't ever given us ANY ammunition against them. Why?

I think we have no option but to accept [which we should, as Sikhs] and come to terms with the worldview of Guru Maharaj, based off of what we can gather from both Gurbani sources and other historical sources like rehitnamay etc. It’s the only way we can keep our sense of sanity and integrity in the chaotic middle gray space we find ourselves in, wedged in between competing megalithic civilizations. Our doctrines and ideals can’t be reformulated to suit the current whims of the people they serve because of the relative proximity to evidence our emergence timeline presents.

Regarding your point about our parcharks (post-partition), I agree with you. I have also wondered the same listening to the visiting gyanis. I doubt the schools they learned from had any serious Arabic/Isalmic studies programs, lol. Probably, they had rudimentary commentaries akin to those high-school level world religion books. I think most paracharks are genuinely completely in the dark about the darkside of Islam. Add to that the ambiguity of  sarbat da bhala without the asterisk. 

I won’t get into Gurbani references in this post (I will say, for now, there is no mention of Mmd or references to islamic /semetic  stories and characters, save the odd one I may have missed to spot), but what is interesting is the rehitnamas and other 18^th century and 19^th century literature. It’s quite blunt in regards to Islam. Even our Four Kurehits appear more like a direct condemnation of Islamic customs, ie hooka hajamat halalo haram. The complete separation of food, habitation, and family from muslims that our elders practiced right upto partition speaks volumes.

I think we have enough material to formulate a more appropriate approach to Islam and Muslims that won’t involve us holding umbrellas over them and renovating back old mosques. These next gen parcharks have info so readily available on youtbue about the darkness in Islam, it just needs to be understood and disseminated in Punjabi now.

[Ranjeet01]

5 hours ago, SinghPunjabSingh said:

Correct on all you say Ranjeet Singh but I'd add:

1. It's actually a three-pronged approach as in order to turn Sikhs into a minority by the 2031 census a Hindu majority is not needed.

i) So obviously there is economic labour migration from people perceived to be Hindu's but who with parchaar could readily become new sehajdhari Sikhs in most cases. These folks are essential for the economy of Punjab and provided we assimilate them as new Sikhs there won't be a problem if we simply educate them about our Shaheed Bhai Jiwan Singh Ji from Bihar and Dhan Dhan Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj. What is today perceived as a problem could turn into a massive demographic blessing for the Panth if we integrate and welcome new non-Punjabi's into the Sikh Panth.

ii) Then you have the two Abrahamic communities who together are currently at around a matching percentage to Muslims in the UK. Both these communities oppose the BJP's anti-conversion and anti-love-jihad/baptism laws. The Christians are planting massive Christian crosses on strategic corners to the pinds where their business franchises are operating. The Muslims having wanted to annex east Punjab into Pakistan in 1947 were given free reign to reactivate and rebuild as many empty mosques by Muhammad Izhar Alam who was appointed head of the Punjab Waqf Board as a reward for his Genocide of so many Amritdhari Sikhs in the 1980's on behalf of the Gandhi family. Badal Dal appointed the killer's wife as an MLA. Hindutva should and does oppose the Abrahamics in their own ruled states. However, Sikhi represents the biggest indigenous threat to the corrupt Indian system and Hindutva out there and hence in east Punjab they are encouraged purely to tilt the scales towards Sikhs becoming a minority in Punjab by the 2031 census. Hindutva seeks to divide and rule whereas Sikhi would unify the poor under Sri Nishan Sahib for the betterment of society.

iii) Last but not least and possibly the most important is the agenda by RAW to rebrand around 5-6 million Sikhs of Ravidasi and Mazhabi ancestry into tomorrow's Hindu Chamar and Hindu Balmiki votebanks for the BJP nowadays but it was the Indira Gandhi and Rajiv Gandhi who initiated this demented ideology with the end target being to leave Sikhs in a decisive minority in Majha and Malwa (given that we are already a minority in Doaba where many of us in the Diaspora have ancestors).

The only way we can fightback against this evil agenda against our Panth is if we unite each and every pind in Punjab under a single united Gurdwara in this decade. There is simply no way for a community split by various apartheid franchise Dera's in a single pind to survive. When Sikhs were killed during the 1947 Pakistani Genocide of Sikhs in which 25% of Sikhs were killed there and during the Congress Genocide of Sikhs none of the killers bothered to do a background check on the ancestry of the Sikhs they were killing and that's why desperately need to unite among ourselves as once we are United, no power on this planet cannot stop. United we stand, Divided we fall.

  

Why would Hindutva create a situation where potentially there is another 5th column that threaten to break India in Punjab if they are allowing these franchises. 

It is not in their interest. That would be cutting their nose to spite their face.

You would not have the Ghar Whapsi otherwise. 

Why would RAW do this either? It is not in their interest either.

 

[dallysingh101]

I think if there is any group of people who are acutely and hawkishly aware of their own self interests it's our desi rural brethren. People here are worried about the situation back home, but they need to realise that many of us in the diaspora will have our own issues to contend with vis-à-vis assimilation, conversions, rising white nationalist right-wingism etc. etc. over the next few decades (especially in the UK and US). 

In the end we'll all be fighting our own battles for survival. People back home will realise and contend with their situation when it comes to it. I mean they are in a better position than the rest of us because of population density and numbers.    

I just see it as a simple, relatively underdeveloped people about to go through the steep end of the learning curve myself. 

[MisterrSingh]

7 hours ago, Jai Tegang! said:

I won’t get into Gurbani references in this post (I will say, for now, there is no mention of Mmd or references to islamic /semetic  stories and characters, save the odd one I may have missed to spot), but what is interesting is the rehitnamas and other 18^th century and 19^th century literature. It’s quite blunt in regards to Islam. Even our Four Kurehits appear more like a direct condemnation of Islamic customs, ie hooka hajamat halalo haram. The complete separation of food, habitation, and family from muslims that our elders practiced right upto partition speaks volumes.

I think we have enough material to formulate a more appropriate approach to Islam and Muslims that won’t involve us holding umbrellas over them and renovating back old mosques. These next gen parcharks have info so readily available on youtbue about the darkness in Islam, it just needs to be understood and disseminated in Punjabi now.

With respect, obscure rehatnamas aren't going to push back against the Islamic tide. Rehatnamas can be ignored, debunked, etc. They're like the hadiths in that respect; they can be repurposed to suit any narrative, or when they're a little more cut and dry they're denounced altogether if they don't suit the narrative. Only in our case, Islamophilic Sikhs will lead the way in denying even valid rehatnamas as Brahmin concoctions or non-divinely inspired writings. Guru Granth Sahib is the benchmark by which Sikh ethics are measured, and on that front as I've mentioned Islam is given a free pass.

To prevent what will inevitably transpire if Indian Sikhs continue this suicidal pro-Islamic agenda, efforts should've kicked into gear at least ten years ago. It should've been a widely agreed policy by the Akal Takhat for ALL paracharaks to contextualise Islamic sentiments expressed in Gurbani. Day in, day out, at ALL the major takhats there should've been presenting Katha focusing on this issue, i.e. keep Muslims and their ways at arm's length in our own pinds.

Instead, even as recently as Saturday I watched a video of Katha from one of the major Gurdwaras where "Mohammed Sahib" was being talked of in glowing terms by a prominent giani.

Yes, our people will need to learn the hard way, but if they weren't so obstinately ignorant and arrogant, they wouldn't have to undergo the inevitable horrors this particular learning experience will throw their way.

Dead quom, dead people.

[dallysingh101]

14 hours ago, MisterrSingh said:

Yes, our people will need to learn the hard way, but if they weren't so obstinately ignorant and arrogant, they wouldn't have to undergo the inevitable horrors this particular learning experience will throw their way.

Dead quom, dead people.

I wouldn't go that far. They are just simple pendus. That's as plain as day. 

Well, it looks like the world is going to wake and shake some of them up. Maybe that's exactly what such people need?  

Apna pendus are 110% reactive, they don't have any ability to see anything that isn't a few feet away from their big noses - and their clannishness means they routinely prop up 'leaders' with these same characteristics. Worry about yourself and the community where you are. There are enough of them there to deal with their own issues.   

Might be a good thing if they get tested, might snap them out of their bhangra obsession? For a bit anyway? 

 

 

Look, apna society have to learn about long term strategic and tactical planning. They are too dumb to do this without being compelled into it.  Choosing leaders because you're shitting yourself about another caste rising, instead of choosing based on ability (as is our true tradition) doesn't help. 

[dallysingh101]

And........(hate putting this out there)

 

Paying sullay families that have had a member knocked off seems to be a well established cultural norm. I know of at least one case where this has happened in ends. Don't ask though. 

And another thing, yes Shri Guru Granth Sahib is our Guru ji, but the reality is that you need to bring in Dasam Granth and puratan rahitnamas (and other puratan literature like hukamnamas) to get a real gist of original Sikhi/Khalsa culture. Perceiving Guru ji as some equivalent of an abrahamic scripture doesn't cut it.

Studying old rahits is very important and answers a lot of questions.    

[kuldipk123]

 

[Premi5]

1 hour ago, kuldipk123 said:

 

Why doesn't she just get married in a Mosque?!

Problem solved !